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I really don't understand the argument that the lock on is a bad mechanic.
His E is not extremely easy to hit (it's not terribly hard, but it's very dodgeable), and there are so many other champions in the game that require hitting one key skillshot to do their big combo. I don't really understand why Urgots combo is much different.
When the lock on range was 1500, I can potentially see that being ridiculous. That's farther than most peoples ability to use skills to grab CS at range, but at 1200 lots of champions can simply pull away and grab a CS with their version of mystic shot while avoiding taking a full 3 acid hunters worth of damage.
I can understand his ult being aggravating to play against in lane because it's point and click though. If they wanted to make his ult a skillshot somehow, I think that would potentially be cool, especially if it allowed for help with his mana problems.
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If you've got stealth or bushes nearby, you can already escape the lock-on. I don't know how forgiving it is, though (as long as you hover over a debuffed target the lock-on occurs, so you can still get people in the bushes if you know where they are precisely, despite not having vision stricto sensu, but ot may or may not correspond exactly to the target's model size), but if it is maybe you can tweak the ease of escaping Urgot by playing around the value.
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You can still shoot the Q's at a locked target you can't see right? It just doesn't reveal them.
And Wei, you are a troll and I am just not going to respond to you anymore.
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Lock-on is pretty forgiving with respect to hitting people in the bush. You get the same hitbox as when they're visible, and if you've ever tried to q a low-health minion standing anywhere near a minion that's been hit by e you'll know that it's pretty big.
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When other people do their one hit combos, it doesn't take nearly as long though. If Ahri landed charm and you had to either go sit at your tower for a while or just ignore her whaling on you for six seconds or whatever while you cs it would be a pretty silly mechanic. Essentially, there should be more ways to avoid getting locked onto, and more ways to lock on, and it shouldn't last so long.
For example (and don't obsess over the details like I know you guys want to, it's just a brainstorming idea)
Instead of just having q lock on be binary based on grenade, you could still have E lock on but only for one shot. Then you bake lock on into his passive. Have it build stacks while autoing or landing Q and then his spell or auto on a hero gives him another single lock on. You can do interesting stuff like revert the range nerf or have lock on not put q on cd because you've transferred the skill of playing vs him from 90% avoiding grenade to various different points in his kit.
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On October 27 2013 02:22 Sicariidae wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2013 23:34 Ketara wrote:
Caitlyn with an end game ADC build (IE BT LW PD) autoattacking for 5 seconds deals 4867 damage, not counting headshots. And Caitlyn's end game damage is considered to be low.
Tristana does 7047.
Buff Urgot. But, the difference for Urgot is that other AD carries don't get ridiculous amounts of Armor Penetration. Caitlyn and Tristana will never get Black Cleaver, so they are limited to 40.2% (Last Whisper + 8% from Masteries) Armor Penetration plus whatever flat Penetration they can get from Masteries/Runes. Versus at 250 Armor target: Urgot: 1947.4 Caitlyn 2023.7 Tristana 2930.1
I think maybe you've realized this but no % penetration or % reduction stack additively with each other. It's not as strong as you think and black cleaver and urgot grenade do not yield 40% pen on one ability.
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also you need to stack bc 5 times
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Been playing free week jinx. Her minigun doesn't feel very minigunish. Should require 5 stacks instead of 3, would give more revving up feel.
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If Ahri hits her charm you die or you're forced to go back anyway, so... (then again there's the fact that she's pretty broken in that after DFG and some AP, QWQQW ignite is well enough to 100-0 squishies, so it kinda counts as a lock-on too I guess).
Also Urgot's E is a DoT so it stacks BC rather quickly (dunno how often it ticks though, once or twice per second?).
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On October 27 2013 03:40 Slayer91 wrote:
also you need to stack bc 5 times
His E actually stacks BC pretty fast.
But, lets be realistic. Even with all the armor pen in the world, he's not outdamaging mainstream ADC's, or even coming close.
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Why the sudden urgot obsession? People rightfully hate him because he gets to trade one for one, which is pretty much the most toxic mechanic lategame.
He does what talon does, just in a different way.
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I'm trying to be diplomat, but: fucking stop pasting fancy place-holder words like "toxic" who've come to be devoid or any meaning other than "something I want to label as bad because I dislike it" ffs.
Also dumb comparisons like that one with Talon.
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Picking a 1 for 1 is a ridiculous power. I guess its not toxic. More like something that you shouldn't have unless you are a #1 position carry. Because late game urgot is #2 or 3, trading 3 for 1 (farm position) is silly.
Particularly because qss doesn't stop the swap (or used to not).
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Ok, just played Urgot/Leona bot lane, crushed Vayne/Fiddle, and my feeling is that at least if he gets a Leona, Urgot is strong. She had great setup for him all game long, and even the cool ability to follow up his ult with either a stun on the target, or stunning those focusing him as he crabwalks his way outta there. Maybe it's the only lane that would work well for him, but I can definitely say it's very strong early game and has good mid-game synergy.
Will play more to find out.
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'cept Urgot doesn't have to die to make the pick nor does he become useless afterwards like you seem to mention.
Urgot became shit when they moved his ratios to bonus AD because he had to build damage to build useful. Having total AD means that he can focus on some ArPen/CDR and then just build tanky as fuck and rely on his defensive steroids+passive to survive. He's not suiciding to kill someone, he's building so tanky you don't want to focus him down at the start of a teamfight while his ults lets his team kill a more squishy target.
Late game full tank Urgot is freaking terror against a low damage team because you can't get rid of him and even a little bit of sustain makes him able to outlast a ton of champions. He's almost a frontliner.
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On October 27 2013 04:30 cLutZ wrote:
Picking a 1 for 1 is a ridiculous power. I guess its not toxic. More like something that you shouldn't have unless you are a #1 position carry. Because late game urgot is #2 or 3, trading 3 for 1 (farm position) is silly.
Particularly because qss doesn't stop the swap (or used to not).
QSS does stop the swap, it's suppression just like WW/Malz/Skarner.
Pretty short timing to do it in, but definitely doable.
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On October 27 2013 04:42 Alaric wrote:
'cept Urgot doesn't have to die to make the pick nor does he become useless afterwards like you seem to mention.
Urgot became shit when they moved his ratios to bonus AD because he had to build damage to build useful. Having total AD means that he can focus on some ArPen/CDR and then just build tanky as fuck and rely on his defensive steroids+passive to survive. He's not suiciding to kill someone, he's building so tanky you don't want to focus him down at the start of a teamfight while his ults lets his team kill a more squishy target.
Late game full tank Urgot is freaking terror against a low damage team because you can't get rid of him and even a little bit of sustain makes him able to outlast a ton of champions. He's almost a frontliner.
That he doesn't die makes the math worse, not better.
Also ketara, last time I played him it removed the suppression but the movement still happened. Bug that was fixed I guess?
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HMM.
I have no idea.
I know if you CC Urgot during the suppression it stops the movement.
LoL Wiki says if you QSS it it stops the movement but Urgot still gets the bonus Armor/MR if he completes his own channel.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 27 2013 04:24 Alaric wrote:
I'm trying to be diplomat, but: fucking stop pasting fancy place-holder words like "toxic" who've come to be devoid or any meaning other than "something I want to label as bad because I dislike it" ffs.
Also dumb comparisons like that one with Talon.
It's "toxic" because it creates a scenario where one member of the other team just doesn't get to play out the teamfight because they get swapped and die. Even if Urgot's team always loses the subseqent fight, Urgot can essentially just remove one person from the fight every time and just ruin their play experience (since people like participating in their teams' teamfight victory and not instantly dying at the start). Obviously there are a lot of champs that can accomplish this, but Urgot's mechanic is unique in a way that it makes players who don't know how to play around it feel like they're just getting fucked every time and they can't do anything about it.
I don't personally have a problem with mechanics like this, but from Riot's perspective I can understand why the term might apply to that skill.
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On October 27 2013 05:14 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2013 04:24 Alaric wrote:
I'm trying to be diplomat, but: fucking stop pasting fancy place-holder words like "toxic" who've come to be devoid or any meaning other than "something I want to label as bad because I dislike it" ffs.
Also dumb comparisons like that one with Talon. It's "toxic" because it creates a scenario where one member of the other team just doesn't get to play out the teamfight because they get swapped and die. Even if Urgot's team always loses the subseqent fight, Urgot can essentially just remove one person from the fight every time and just ruin their play experience (since people like participating in their teams' teamfight victory and not instantly dying at the start). Obviously there are a lot of champs that can accomplish this, but Urgot's mechanic is unique in a way that it makes players who don't know how to play around it feel like they're just getting fucked every time and they can't do anything about it. I don't personally have a problem with mechanics like this, but from Riot's perspective I can understand why the term might apply to that skill.
Well, the real problem is if you are facing a team like :
Urgot, Jax, Diana, jarvan, only your AD can realistically kill more than one, and if he gets swapped, its stupid. Now, if qss actually works now, its fine
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EPT
