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On October 23 2013 06:19 Requizen wrote:Who needs farm when you go BotRK first and rape machine every lane? Until, you know, they pick someone with any amount of knockback/sustained slow and then laugh at you.
i said he needs farm
you cant play like that in pro play
On October 23 2013 06:21 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
a surprisingly large variety of items/item combinations feels good on udyr, and then you realize none of them actually addresses any of his issues
udyr still great for pubs though cause he's a non-cd reliant, tanky, huge dps machine when he gets ahead
trinity did until they removed the slow
still not bad though
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On October 23 2013 03:35 GrandInquisitor wrote:To me jungle Nasus is a good example of a pubstomp champion: he can take free dragons over and over in solo queue, a trick that obviously doesn't work against better teams.
Nasus's strength is not predicated on getting every dragon for free.
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On October 23 2013 04:30 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 04:25 GrandInquisitor wrote:
In low-level solo queue, there are some champs that are, on average, easier to win with than other champs.
In professional play, there are some champs that are, on average, easier to win with than other champs.
These two lists of champs are not identical. so you mean in low level play some champs are easier to play for less skilled players against less skilled players, sure but "some champs stomp in solo q" a HUGE extension of that. We'd need significant winrate stats and a hard line definition of where you define solo q. Bronze-s->gold. Gold-->plat. Bronze--->Diamond? All lists could change drastically based on what area of skill you're talking. i imagine all-challenger team comps are very close to pro play team comps Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 04:28 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On October 23 2013 04:26 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
You guys are treating situational snowball champs like they are pubstomp gods but really they just work in certain situations.
you're the only one (of note) who has insinuated anything of the sort, stop straw manning actually, I thought this was the whole argument. Some champs are slightly more successful among different levels of play. sure, random fluctuations are going to be all over solo q and pro play based on patch changes and skill level, but nothing drastic enough to comment on.
I think the higher the level of play the closer u get to soloq and pro champ select getting simliar. Just like in startcraft cheesey things like cannon rushes and proxy racks are easier to pull off then stop at lower levels. A bronze player can go 30-0 fizz and snowball much easier then another bronze can stop from dying to the all ins
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Baa?21247 Posts
On October 23 2013 06:36 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 06:19 Requizen wrote:On October 23 2013 06:13 Slayer91 wrote:
cause he needs farm Who needs farm when you go BotRK first and rape machine every lane? Until, you know, they pick someone with any amount of knockback/sustained slow and then laugh at you. i said he needs farm you cant play like that in pro play Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 06:21 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
a surprisingly large variety of items/item combinations feels good on udyr, and then you realize none of them actually addresses any of his issues
udyr still great for pubs though cause he's a non-cd reliant, tanky, huge dps machine when he gets ahead trinity did until they removed the slow still not bad though
it's ok helped a bit but i wouldnt say it really addressed it consistently
there's still ibg in the game but a lot of the times you cant even get taht first hit in to proc the slow on a priority target in a teamfight, best you can do is slow their initiators/divers most of the time
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On October 23 2013 06:51 IamPryda wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 04:30 Slayer91 wrote:On October 23 2013 04:25 GrandInquisitor wrote:
In low-level solo queue, there are some champs that are, on average, easier to win with than other champs.
In professional play, there are some champs that are, on average, easier to win with than other champs.
These two lists of champs are not identical. so you mean in low level play some champs are easier to play for less skilled players against less skilled players, sure but "some champs stomp in solo q" a HUGE extension of that. We'd need significant winrate stats and a hard line definition of where you define solo q. Bronze-s->gold. Gold-->plat. Bronze--->Diamond? All lists could change drastically based on what area of skill you're talking. i imagine all-challenger team comps are very close to pro play team comps On October 23 2013 04:28 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On October 23 2013 04:26 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
You guys are treating situational snowball champs like they are pubstomp gods but really they just work in certain situations.
you're the only one (of note) who has insinuated anything of the sort, stop straw manning actually, I thought this was the whole argument. Some champs are slightly more successful among different levels of play. sure, random fluctuations are going to be all over solo q and pro play based on patch changes and skill level, but nothing drastic enough to comment on. I think the higher the level of play the closer u get to soloq and pro champ select getting simliar. Just like in startcraft cheesey things like cannon rushes and proxy racks are easier to pull off then stop at lower levels. A bronze player can go 30-0 fizz and snowball much easier then another bronze can stop from dying to the all ins
so cheese doesnt exist at pro levels in starcraft?
the only difference is its possible to pull off a cheese build to a pretty high level compared to your standard game level in starcraft. there's no "easy" way to get fed on fizz and go 30-0
On October 23 2013 06:57 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 06:36 Slayer91 wrote:On October 23 2013 06:19 Requizen wrote:On October 23 2013 06:13 Slayer91 wrote:
cause he needs farm Who needs farm when you go BotRK first and rape machine every lane? Until, you know, they pick someone with any amount of knockback/sustained slow and then laugh at you. i said he needs farm you cant play like that in pro play On October 23 2013 06:21 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
a surprisingly large variety of items/item combinations feels good on udyr, and then you realize none of them actually addresses any of his issues
udyr still great for pubs though cause he's a non-cd reliant, tanky, huge dps machine when he gets ahead trinity did until they removed the slow still not bad though it's ok helped a bit but i wouldnt say it really addressed it consistently there's still ibg in the game but a lot of the times you cant even get taht first hit in to proc the slow on a priority target in a teamfight, best you can do is slow their initiators/divers most of the time
if you get the slow on a priority target you should be killing shortly after so it shouldn't be easy
if not theres no point going for it
when my opponent contract i expand
when my opponent expand i contract
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it doesnt matter if you need to go 6-0 or 30-0 its just semantics really, fed enough to snowball to a win
you might NEED to go 30-0 in a lower level game because teammates dont group but it doesnt affect the discussion
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TIL that if riot kicks you off the client to do stuff to your account you still get a dodge penalty
but at least i have this
+ Show Spoiler +
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Found this on reddit, this is for the upcoming champ, whatever he/she/it is
CertainlyT is the designer of Darius, Thresh, Zed (with Samizul) and Zyra (with Coronach and Morello).
I predict a balanced/slightly UP release state, not requiring any changes in the first patch, and a buff later./sarcasm
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On October 23 2013 06:27 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 06:17 Amui wrote:On October 23 2013 06:08 Requizen wrote:On October 23 2013 06:02 turdburgler wrote:On October 23 2013 05:59 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 23 2013 05:58 Shelke14 wrote:
one last update.. WON promos skipped gold 3 in gold 2 YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH BUDDDDDDDDDYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY I'm happy for you, but these little updates really should be in the Loci Thread of Awesome fucking happy people, where do they get off?! we need to hide any happiness in its own thread that no one reads. This thread is for arguing semantics and talking about unverfiable theories about the next season. Theories for next season. Take what TLer's think the path is to a better game, reverse it because Morello, and ship it. List of Season 4 Changes (According to !TL): - Wards and Sightstone are made more expensive in order to encourage supports to buy other things.
- Early jungle gold and experience is diminished, but scales even better than before.
- Anti-banking implemented in the jungle.
- Blade of the Ruined King buffed to help "Marksmen" against divers.
- Nautilus nerfed to the ground for being the best diver.
- Jungle initial spawn delayed to 4:55.
* Ezreal's Mystic Shot: Now does % health damage
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United States47024 Posts
Teut and I have had this fundamental disagreement for a long time where he feels that at the highest possible level the way solo queue is picked and played should highly resemble tournament play, where I think in the long run this shouldn't be the case once competitive play develops far enough. Again, this is hard to have a real discussion about because of how hard solo queue bandwagons on pro play regardless so it's hard to separate out the various factors.
Personally, I think 5 individual players picking 5 strong heroes individually should look fundamentally different than a pro team picking a coherent teamcomp, but for various reasons, this is not the case right now.
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On October 23 2013 06:02 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 05:59 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 23 2013 05:58 Shelke14 wrote:
one last update.. WON promos skipped gold 3 in gold 2 YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH BUDDDDDDDDDYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY I'm happy for you, but these little updates really should be in the Loci Thread of Awesome fucking happy people, where do they get off?! we need to hide any happiness in its own thread that no one reads.
~_~
I wasn't being an ass. We have the thread for a reason - if everyone posted their exciting updates all the time in here everyone would ask for it to be located somewhere.
I am happy for all TLers that show improvement, but if there's a place for it, then use it.
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i guess it depends on if you believe there is a 100% perfect single way to play each possible lane with each possible team. if you believe that league is a solvable game, then solo queue should resemble team play, because as you approach higher and higher skill, closer and closer to solved, the number of variables actually falls because they are known wrong moves, and the game plays out how it always will.
if you believe that at the highest possible level there are still choices, equally valid variations, then solo queue will not look like team play. because in team play you will already know which choice will be taken, you know that through 'playstyle' what moves will be taken and react faster. in solo queue you will have to play safer rather than optimally because you cant know which choice your team will take in a given situation.
personally i think league is more like the second example, because of the way you can fake pressure using pink wards meaning there are going to be divergent situations. a jungler going top and removing the enemy ward is a clear example where he can then make a choice (stay or leave) both being valid and both having different results. so i think its clear that league will always have unknowns meaning that solo queue will not become more like team play.
On October 23 2013 07:40 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 06:02 turdburgler wrote:On October 23 2013 05:59 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 23 2013 05:58 Shelke14 wrote:
one last update.. WON promos skipped gold 3 in gold 2 YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH BUDDDDDDDDDYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY I'm happy for you, but these little updates really should be in the Loci Thread of Awesome fucking happy people, where do they get off?! we need to hide any happiness in its own thread that no one reads. ~_~ I wasn't being an ass. We have the thread for a reason - if everyone posted their exciting updates all the time in here everyone would ask for it to be located somewhere. I am happy for all TLers that show improvement, but if there's a place for it, then use it.
is saying "yay i achieved X" any more shitty than other pointless conversation? i dont believe this community is big enough to have sub threads for every different type of shitposting. i think people here value conversation (which may lead to useful debate) over tumbleweed.
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I'd much rather see "Yay I got to gold 2" in GD than posts about how people think in Season 4 Mystic Shot will do % health damage, personally.
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On October 23 2013 07:40 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 06:02 turdburgler wrote:On October 23 2013 05:59 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 23 2013 05:58 Shelke14 wrote:
one last update.. WON promos skipped gold 3 in gold 2 YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH BUDDDDDDDDDYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY I'm happy for you, but these little updates really should be in the Loci Thread of Awesome fucking happy people, where do they get off?! we need to hide any happiness in its own thread that no one reads. ~_~ I wasn't being an ass. We have the thread for a reason - if everyone posted their exciting updates all the time in here everyone would ask for it to be located somewhere. I am happy for all TLers that show improvement, but if there's a place for it, then use it.
There's a difference between being excited for promotions and "omg look I played a game with a famous streamer"/"check out this 30/2/15 score I had!" posts.
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On October 23 2013 06:32 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 06:27 Seuss wrote:On October 23 2013 06:17 Amui wrote:On October 23 2013 06:08 Requizen wrote:On October 23 2013 06:02 turdburgler wrote:On October 23 2013 05:59 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 23 2013 05:58 Shelke14 wrote:
one last update.. WON promos skipped gold 3 in gold 2 YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH BUDDDDDDDDDYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY I'm happy for you, but these little updates really should be in the Loci Thread of Awesome fucking happy people, where do they get off?! we need to hide any happiness in its own thread that no one reads. This thread is for arguing semantics and talking about unverfiable theories about the next season. Theories for next season. Take what TLer's think the path is to a better game, reverse it because Morello, and ship it. List of Season 4 Changes (According to !TL): - Wards and Sightstone are made more expensive in order to encourage supports to buy other things.
- Early jungle gold and experience is diminished, but scales even better than before.
- Anti-banking implemented in the jungle.
- Blade of the Ruined King buffed to help "Marksmen" against divers.
- Nautilus nerfed to the ground for being the best diver.
- Jungle initial spawn delayed to 4:55.
I thought this was true until the naut part. 5/5
Naut still a bitch to make work if the enemy team has a bit of a brain (and didn't pick super weak early lane vs your bullies obv.). T_T
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K well, apparently I'm the minority here. Was just trying to be consistent.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
seems liek the discussion is on two separate topics. there are obviously big differences between soloq play and competitive, and the difference can make certain heroes favored in each and by different amounts.
but there's also the possibility that if a champ is op in the right way, then it will be op in both. with how restricted some of the game's roles are, if a champ is 10% better than any adc for example, then you'll see it have a high winrate in both soloq and pros, just by virtue of being a strictly better option with no situational dependence.
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There's also the reverse of this thought process which is not necessarily that pro picks come from solo queue, but solo queue picks also come from pro play.
I'm still not convinced that Annie support is all that great in solo queue but I'm seeing it all the time now at all skill levels now that Royal showcased it at Worlds.
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On October 23 2013 07:34 TheYango wrote:
Teut and I have had this fundamental disagreement for a long time where he feels that at the highest possible level the way solo queue is picked and played should highly resemble tournament play, where I think in the long run this shouldn't be the case once competitive play develops far enough. Again, this is hard to have a real discussion about because of how hard solo queue bandwagons on pro play regardless so it's hard to separate out the various factors.
Personally, I think 5 individual players picking 5 strong heroes individually should look fundamentally different than a pro team picking a coherent teamcomp, but for various reasons, this is not the case right now.
Well, I can tell you the reason...its because competitive play is currently being dominated by teams with high individual skill and then snowballing leads generated in laning without ever engaging in a 5v5 (because someone always dies).
That is basically soloQ, except its "picks" rather than pure facechecking.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1381960_506064482822707_305804558_n.jpg)
