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On September 08 2013 19:28 UniversalSnip wrote:
Riot's biggest season 3 item mistakes in my opinion, in no particular order:
1) frozen gauntlet. I fucking hate this item, once in a million games you see some silver leaguer buy it on a melee but 99% of the time it does nothing but help a kiting hero wreck melee. It's so obnoxious getting procced on by it, fuck this garbage, what is the item doing, exactly, to make the game better?
2) blade of the ruined king. it's not even particularly broken anymore after it hit the three million nerfs mark last week, but you can tell something is wrong because over the course of one game it usually outcompetes multiple of phantom dancer, bloodthirster, wriggles, wit's end, tiamat, until recently trinity, and more I'm not thinking of, as well as of course various garbage items like rageblade. Of course it's also another amazing kite item when they spent the first two seasons rolling back slows. I can't think of a stat this item doesn't give, I'm surprised it doesn't have protection from homarids.
What I really don't get about this is why they wouldn't just make the niche options better instead of making one crazy generalist item. You actually end up with less net item variety and less choices because this thing exists. I think it was intended to counter health stacking, but they just threw so much shit on it that role got completely subordinated to providing stat value and the total amount of health built varied exactly 0%. The ridiculous numbers on release show how poorly thought out it was, really. If I had to choose between granting my team access to strongest warmogs, strongest black cleaver and innervating locket vs release botrk, we'd be building botrk.
3) support items are terrible. It's a much better situation than last season thanks to sightstone, but still, all of them are upper midrange stuff, and support itemization is so tight due to the budget you can't incorporate random shit items like mana manipulator and expect it not to constrict people's buys. Is manipulator still going to be around in season four? It's an item only a scrub could love, it's so incredibly specific and has such unrealistic, unremarkable use cases.
The worst part is they're all so boring. Where's the cool stuff like a LoL-ized force staff? It would be so easy to make that play pattern fit into lol's design philosophy, instead we get zzzz three minute cooldown cleanses. The wildest effect this season was ohmwrecker and it's unbearably shitty. Who is pushing these ad items to triple their intended cost efficiency but maintains such a careful fucking eye on ohmwrecker?
Sightstone does good work but it's only a bandage that makes solo queue bearable. The whole vast ward issue has not been properly addressed.
4) wriggles, is there still anyone pretending this item is buyable? it's an obsolete design, only partially because of the awkwardness of the fact it presumes you need a vamp scepter to jungle but costs a million gold before it helps you out with that. I still like my idea of giving madreds an on hit life proc vs monsters and then having it upgrade into ghostblade. I guess the whole jungle item thing worked out okay, not as well as I thought it would, but even so can we please take the mana off the spirit stone path and have camps give it to you for killing them? it feels just awful building a spirit stone on a manaless hero even though 9/10 times it's right.
Gauntlet is fine, makes you have to hard engage over just brute forcing your way to victory, and it weakens bruisers who can leave top lane scary enough to 1v5 unless you can kite.
Blade is just a better solution than BT, so why not build it every game on adc? Yes it also works on other champs (see assassins) and is just an all around good item, but definitely not broken (as you state).
Support items should be terrible, and you should feel terrible for building them. 9 times out of 10 you should use the 475g in an oracles and a ward instead of a ruby crystal, and unless you're backing with 2k gold you should fill up on consumables first, items later. A 40 minute game with you having ruby sightstone, kindlegem, upgraded boots (with homeguard), and have had oracles on you since minute 20 is exactly what you want from a support. Vision > any single item for a support.
You complain about wriggles but what about Atma's? What about Ohmwrecker? (not even good on Kassadin) What about Executioner's Calling? Just needed one item to hate on so wriggles fit?
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dear lord...
Trying to get put into diamond 5 before the season ends and its going sooo slow.
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/19823462#history
Luckily I'm pulling off a decent win/loss (thanks to imba nasus) but i'm only getting 2-5points per win. Have they announced when the season will end?
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The survivor of Allstar Curse:
GPL: None
LPL: Non
OGN: Pray
NA: Xpecial Dyrus
EU: Soaz Diamond Alex
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No they have not yet announced it, gl on diamond, ride the dog to victory.
Edit: I'm wrong.
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On September 08 2013 20:08 Masq wrote:dear lord... Trying to get put into diamond 5 before the season ends and its going sooo slow. http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/19823462#historyLuckily I'm pulling off a decent win/loss (thanks to imba nasus) but i'm only getting 2-5points per win. Have they announced when the season will end?
31 oct
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On September 08 2013 20:12 Zdrastochye wrote:
No they have not yet announced it, gl on diamond, ride the dog to victory.
Edit: I'm wrong.
thanks, decided to try him after losing to him in ranked and storrzerg wrecking face with him in those TL IH.
Ahh Oct 31, plenty of time..
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On September 08 2013 20:20 Masq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 20:12 Zdrastochye wrote:
No they have not yet announced it, gl on diamond, ride the dog to victory.
Edit: I'm wrong. thanks, decided to try him after losing to him in ranked and storrzerg wrecking face with him in those TL IH. Ahh Oct 31, plenty of time..
Storr has this uncanny ability to play non adc champs better than his adc champs that he claims to main.
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ADC is hard. You need to have good synergy with your support.
My Trist/Ez are mid heroes, I can't play ADC worth shit most of the time. IM TOO SOLO BRO
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Well Storr also has no excuse to not have synergy with me since we did ranked 5s. I like to think he's just a top laner in an adc's skin.
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On September 08 2013 19:59 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 19:28 UniversalSnip wrote:
Riot's biggest season 3 item mistakes in my opinion, in no particular order:
1) frozen gauntlet. I fucking hate this item, once in a million games you see some silver leaguer buy it on a melee but 99% of the time it does nothing but help a kiting hero wreck melee. It's so obnoxious getting procced on by it, fuck this garbage, what is the item doing, exactly, to make the game better?
2) blade of the ruined king. it's not even particularly broken anymore after it hit the three million nerfs mark last week, but you can tell something is wrong because over the course of one game it usually outcompetes multiple of phantom dancer, bloodthirster, wriggles, wit's end, tiamat, until recently trinity, and more I'm not thinking of, as well as of course various garbage items like rageblade. Of course it's also another amazing kite item when they spent the first two seasons rolling back slows. I can't think of a stat this item doesn't give, I'm surprised it doesn't have protection from homarids.
What I really don't get about this is why they wouldn't just make the niche options better instead of making one crazy generalist item. You actually end up with less net item variety and less choices because this thing exists. I think it was intended to counter health stacking, but they just threw so much shit on it that role got completely subordinated to providing stat value and the total amount of health built varied exactly 0%. The ridiculous numbers on release show how poorly thought out it was, really. If I had to choose between granting my team access to strongest warmogs, strongest black cleaver and innervating locket vs release botrk, we'd be building botrk.
3) support items are terrible. It's a much better situation than last season thanks to sightstone, but still, all of them are upper midrange stuff, and support itemization is so tight due to the budget you can't incorporate random shit items like mana manipulator and expect it not to constrict people's buys. Is manipulator still going to be around in season four? It's an item only a scrub could love, it's so incredibly specific and has such unrealistic, unremarkable use cases.
The worst part is they're all so boring. Where's the cool stuff like a LoL-ized force staff? It would be so easy to make that play pattern fit into lol's design philosophy, instead we get zzzz three minute cooldown cleanses. The wildest effect this season was ohmwrecker and it's unbearably shitty. Who is pushing these ad items to triple their intended cost efficiency but maintains such a careful fucking eye on ohmwrecker?
Sightstone does good work but it's only a bandage that makes solo queue bearable. The whole vast ward issue has not been properly addressed.
4) wriggles, is there still anyone pretending this item is buyable? it's an obsolete design, only partially because of the awkwardness of the fact it presumes you need a vamp scepter to jungle but costs a million gold before it helps you out with that. I still like my idea of giving madreds an on hit life proc vs monsters and then having it upgrade into ghostblade. I guess the whole jungle item thing worked out okay, not as well as I thought it would, but even so can we please take the mana off the spirit stone path and have camps give it to you for killing them? it feels just awful building a spirit stone on a manaless hero even though 9/10 times it's right. Gauntlet is fine, makes you have to hard engage over just brute forcing your way to victory, and it weakens bruisers who can leave top lane scary enough to 1v5 unless you can kite. Blade is just a better solution than BT, so why not build it every game on adc? Yes it also works on other champs (see assassins) and is just an all around good item, but definitely not broken (as you state). Support items should be terrible, and you should feel terrible for building them. 9 times out of 10 you should use the 475g in an oracles and a ward instead of a ruby crystal, and unless you're backing with 2k gold you should fill up on consumables first, items later. A 40 minute game with you having ruby sightstone, kindlegem, upgraded boots (with homeguard), and have had oracles on you since minute 20 is exactly what you want from a support. Vision > any single item for a support. You complain about wriggles but what about Atma's? What about Ohmwrecker? (not even good on Kassadin) What about Executioner's Calling? Just needed one item to hate on so wriggles fit?
he did complain about ohmwrecker and mana manipulator. read his post and put an effort to actually reply to it next time please.
Also LOL at "Blade is just a better solution than BT". The way I see it, one item should never be outright stronger than other unless it's an upgrade. IE should never be "always better" than BT and it isnt because they provide different things (more dmg vs lifesteal). BT vs BotRK is just redundant because Blade provides better stats than BT (and than PD for that matter) without being a direct upgrade over them, erasing those items from the game. One item should be better than another in some situation / champions like IE is better on ADC than Rabadons and Raba better on AP than IE. Thornmail better than SV or Hexdrinker vs all ad team. Botrk is just straight up better than those two items, always, and a point cant even be made about it being the most expensive item so it should be better (because first, it isnt the most expensive item) and I can also give you the example of dota where Rapier is the most +damage and expensive item and it's never a 100% buy.
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On September 08 2013 19:59 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 19:28 UniversalSnip wrote:
Riot's biggest season 3 item mistakes in my opinion, in no particular order:
1) frozen gauntlet. I fucking hate this item, once in a million games you see some silver leaguer buy it on a melee but 99% of the time it does nothing but help a kiting hero wreck melee. It's so obnoxious getting procced on by it, fuck this garbage, what is the item doing, exactly, to make the game better?
2) blade of the ruined king. it's not even particularly broken anymore after it hit the three million nerfs mark last week, but you can tell something is wrong because over the course of one game it usually outcompetes multiple of phantom dancer, bloodthirster, wriggles, wit's end, tiamat, until recently trinity, and more I'm not thinking of, as well as of course various garbage items like rageblade. Of course it's also another amazing kite item when they spent the first two seasons rolling back slows. I can't think of a stat this item doesn't give, I'm surprised it doesn't have protection from homarids.
What I really don't get about this is why they wouldn't just make the niche options better instead of making one crazy generalist item. You actually end up with less net item variety and less choices because this thing exists. I think it was intended to counter health stacking, but they just threw so much shit on it that role got completely subordinated to providing stat value and the total amount of health built varied exactly 0%. The ridiculous numbers on release show how poorly thought out it was, really. If I had to choose between granting my team access to strongest warmogs, strongest black cleaver and innervating locket vs release botrk, we'd be building botrk.
3) support items are terrible. It's a much better situation than last season thanks to sightstone, but still, all of them are upper midrange stuff, and support itemization is so tight due to the budget you can't incorporate random shit items like mana manipulator and expect it not to constrict people's buys. Is manipulator still going to be around in season four? It's an item only a scrub could love, it's so incredibly specific and has such unrealistic, unremarkable use cases.
The worst part is they're all so boring. Where's the cool stuff like a LoL-ized force staff? It would be so easy to make that play pattern fit into lol's design philosophy, instead we get zzzz three minute cooldown cleanses. The wildest effect this season was ohmwrecker and it's unbearably shitty. Who is pushing these ad items to triple their intended cost efficiency but maintains such a careful fucking eye on ohmwrecker?
Sightstone does good work but it's only a bandage that makes solo queue bearable. The whole vast ward issue has not been properly addressed.
4) wriggles, is there still anyone pretending this item is buyable? it's an obsolete design, only partially because of the awkwardness of the fact it presumes you need a vamp scepter to jungle but costs a million gold before it helps you out with that. I still like my idea of giving madreds an on hit life proc vs monsters and then having it upgrade into ghostblade. I guess the whole jungle item thing worked out okay, not as well as I thought it would, but even so can we please take the mana off the spirit stone path and have camps give it to you for killing them? it feels just awful building a spirit stone on a manaless hero even though 9/10 times it's right. Gauntlet is fine, makes you have to hard engage over just brute forcing your way to victory, and it weakens bruisers who can leave top lane scary enough to 1v5 unless you can kite. Blade is just a better solution than BT, so why not build it every game on adc? Yes it also works on other champs (see assassins) and is just an all around good item, but definitely not broken (as you state). Support items should be terrible, and you should feel terrible for building them. 9 times out of 10 you should use the 475g in an oracles and a ward instead of a ruby crystal, and unless you're backing with 2k gold you should fill up on consumables first, items later. A 40 minute game with you having ruby sightstone, kindlegem, upgraded boots (with homeguard), and have had oracles on you since minute 20 is exactly what you want from a support. Vision > any single item for a support. You complain about wriggles but what about Atma's? What about Ohmwrecker? (not even good on Kassadin) What about Executioner's Calling? Just needed one item to hate on so wriggles fit?
lol
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On September 08 2013 21:17 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 19:59 Zdrastochye wrote:On September 08 2013 19:28 UniversalSnip wrote:
Riot's biggest season 3 item mistakes in my opinion, in no particular order:
1) frozen gauntlet. I fucking hate this item, once in a million games you see some silver leaguer buy it on a melee but 99% of the time it does nothing but help a kiting hero wreck melee. It's so obnoxious getting procced on by it, fuck this garbage, what is the item doing, exactly, to make the game better?
2) blade of the ruined king. it's not even particularly broken anymore after it hit the three million nerfs mark last week, but you can tell something is wrong because over the course of one game it usually outcompetes multiple of phantom dancer, bloodthirster, wriggles, wit's end, tiamat, until recently trinity, and more I'm not thinking of, as well as of course various garbage items like rageblade. Of course it's also another amazing kite item when they spent the first two seasons rolling back slows. I can't think of a stat this item doesn't give, I'm surprised it doesn't have protection from homarids.
What I really don't get about this is why they wouldn't just make the niche options better instead of making one crazy generalist item. You actually end up with less net item variety and less choices because this thing exists. I think it was intended to counter health stacking, but they just threw so much shit on it that role got completely subordinated to providing stat value and the total amount of health built varied exactly 0%. The ridiculous numbers on release show how poorly thought out it was, really. If I had to choose between granting my team access to strongest warmogs, strongest black cleaver and innervating locket vs release botrk, we'd be building botrk.
3) support items are terrible. It's a much better situation than last season thanks to sightstone, but still, all of them are upper midrange stuff, and support itemization is so tight due to the budget you can't incorporate random shit items like mana manipulator and expect it not to constrict people's buys. Is manipulator still going to be around in season four? It's an item only a scrub could love, it's so incredibly specific and has such unrealistic, unremarkable use cases.
The worst part is they're all so boring. Where's the cool stuff like a LoL-ized force staff? It would be so easy to make that play pattern fit into lol's design philosophy, instead we get zzzz three minute cooldown cleanses. The wildest effect this season was ohmwrecker and it's unbearably shitty. Who is pushing these ad items to triple their intended cost efficiency but maintains such a careful fucking eye on ohmwrecker?
Sightstone does good work but it's only a bandage that makes solo queue bearable. The whole vast ward issue has not been properly addressed.
4) wriggles, is there still anyone pretending this item is buyable? it's an obsolete design, only partially because of the awkwardness of the fact it presumes you need a vamp scepter to jungle but costs a million gold before it helps you out with that. I still like my idea of giving madreds an on hit life proc vs monsters and then having it upgrade into ghostblade. I guess the whole jungle item thing worked out okay, not as well as I thought it would, but even so can we please take the mana off the spirit stone path and have camps give it to you for killing them? it feels just awful building a spirit stone on a manaless hero even though 9/10 times it's right. Gauntlet is fine, makes you have to hard engage over just brute forcing your way to victory, and it weakens bruisers who can leave top lane scary enough to 1v5 unless you can kite. Blade is just a better solution than BT, so why not build it every game on adc? Yes it also works on other champs (see assassins) and is just an all around good item, but definitely not broken (as you state). Support items should be terrible, and you should feel terrible for building them. 9 times out of 10 you should use the 475g in an oracles and a ward instead of a ruby crystal, and unless you're backing with 2k gold you should fill up on consumables first, items later. A 40 minute game with you having ruby sightstone, kindlegem, upgraded boots (with homeguard), and have had oracles on you since minute 20 is exactly what you want from a support. Vision > any single item for a support. You complain about wriggles but what about Atma's? What about Ohmwrecker? (not even good on Kassadin) What about Executioner's Calling? Just needed one item to hate on so wriggles fit? lol
Ward bitches thinking they can be anything other than ward bitches. Disgusting, get back to warding.
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They should just create low-budget items, instead of having nearly every single "support" item build from either 1 gp10 or 3 low-income component (like ruby, cloth etc.). Then supports can be a ward-bitching mofo and a item-hungry mofo.
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On September 08 2013 21:17 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 19:59 Zdrastochye wrote:On September 08 2013 19:28 UniversalSnip wrote:
Riot's biggest season 3 item mistakes in my opinion, in no particular order:
1) frozen gauntlet. I fucking hate this item, once in a million games you see some silver leaguer buy it on a melee but 99% of the time it does nothing but help a kiting hero wreck melee. It's so obnoxious getting procced on by it, fuck this garbage, what is the item doing, exactly, to make the game better?
2) blade of the ruined king. it's not even particularly broken anymore after it hit the three million nerfs mark last week, but you can tell something is wrong because over the course of one game it usually outcompetes multiple of phantom dancer, bloodthirster, wriggles, wit's end, tiamat, until recently trinity, and more I'm not thinking of, as well as of course various garbage items like rageblade. Of course it's also another amazing kite item when they spent the first two seasons rolling back slows. I can't think of a stat this item doesn't give, I'm surprised it doesn't have protection from homarids.
What I really don't get about this is why they wouldn't just make the niche options better instead of making one crazy generalist item. You actually end up with less net item variety and less choices because this thing exists. I think it was intended to counter health stacking, but they just threw so much shit on it that role got completely subordinated to providing stat value and the total amount of health built varied exactly 0%. The ridiculous numbers on release show how poorly thought out it was, really. If I had to choose between granting my team access to strongest warmogs, strongest black cleaver and innervating locket vs release botrk, we'd be building botrk.
3) support items are terrible. It's a much better situation than last season thanks to sightstone, but still, all of them are upper midrange stuff, and support itemization is so tight due to the budget you can't incorporate random shit items like mana manipulator and expect it not to constrict people's buys. Is manipulator still going to be around in season four? It's an item only a scrub could love, it's so incredibly specific and has such unrealistic, unremarkable use cases.
The worst part is they're all so boring. Where's the cool stuff like a LoL-ized force staff? It would be so easy to make that play pattern fit into lol's design philosophy, instead we get zzzz three minute cooldown cleanses. The wildest effect this season was ohmwrecker and it's unbearably shitty. Who is pushing these ad items to triple their intended cost efficiency but maintains such a careful fucking eye on ohmwrecker?
Sightstone does good work but it's only a bandage that makes solo queue bearable. The whole vast ward issue has not been properly addressed.
4) wriggles, is there still anyone pretending this item is buyable? it's an obsolete design, only partially because of the awkwardness of the fact it presumes you need a vamp scepter to jungle but costs a million gold before it helps you out with that. I still like my idea of giving madreds an on hit life proc vs monsters and then having it upgrade into ghostblade. I guess the whole jungle item thing worked out okay, not as well as I thought it would, but even so can we please take the mana off the spirit stone path and have camps give it to you for killing them? it feels just awful building a spirit stone on a manaless hero even though 9/10 times it's right. Gauntlet is fine, makes you have to hard engage over just brute forcing your way to victory, and it weakens bruisers who can leave top lane scary enough to 1v5 unless you can kite. Blade is just a better solution than BT, so why not build it every game on adc? Yes it also works on other champs (see assassins) and is just an all around good item, but definitely not broken (as you state). Support items should be terrible, and you should feel terrible for building them. 9 times out of 10 you should use the 475g in an oracles and a ward instead of a ruby crystal, and unless you're backing with 2k gold you should fill up on consumables first, items later. A 40 minute game with you having ruby sightstone, kindlegem, upgraded boots (with homeguard), and have had oracles on you since minute 20 is exactly what you want from a support. Vision > any single item for a support. You complain about wriggles but what about Atma's? What about Ohmwrecker? (not even good on Kassadin) What about Executioner's Calling? Just needed one item to hate on so wriggles fit? lol
You question him? just look at dota. No supports there building Meca,Pipe or Force Staff
On September 08 2013 21:52 Sponkz wrote:
They should just create low-budget items, instead of having nearly every single "support" item build from either 1 gp10 or 3 low-income component (like ruby, cloth etc.). Then supports can be a ward-bitching mofo and a item-hungry mofo.
By "nearly every single" you mean the every one of the total 2 items that supports do build? shurelya and aegis/locket? I guess mikael and starks to a lesser extent, so all of 4?
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United States13922 Posts
On September 08 2013 20:29 Zdrastochye wrote:
Well Storr also has no excuse to not have synergy with me since we did ranked 5s. I like to think he's just a top laner in an adc's skin.
I'm decent with a few top laners, Maine top season 2. I think it mostly just has to do with playing pretty abusive tops, nasus, nunu (not so much now),Elise, trundle. A few others.
Well we need to duo or play more ranked help improve my adc.
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On September 08 2013 21:16 misirlou wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 19:59 Zdrastochye wrote:On September 08 2013 19:28 UniversalSnip wrote:
Riot's biggest season 3 item mistakes in my opinion, in no particular order:
1) frozen gauntlet. I fucking hate this item, once in a million games you see some silver leaguer buy it on a melee but 99% of the time it does nothing but help a kiting hero wreck melee. It's so obnoxious getting procced on by it, fuck this garbage, what is the item doing, exactly, to make the game better?
2) blade of the ruined king. it's not even particularly broken anymore after it hit the three million nerfs mark last week, but you can tell something is wrong because over the course of one game it usually outcompetes multiple of phantom dancer, bloodthirster, wriggles, wit's end, tiamat, until recently trinity, and more I'm not thinking of, as well as of course various garbage items like rageblade. Of course it's also another amazing kite item when they spent the first two seasons rolling back slows. I can't think of a stat this item doesn't give, I'm surprised it doesn't have protection from homarids.
What I really don't get about this is why they wouldn't just make the niche options better instead of making one crazy generalist item. You actually end up with less net item variety and less choices because this thing exists. I think it was intended to counter health stacking, but they just threw so much shit on it that role got completely subordinated to providing stat value and the total amount of health built varied exactly 0%. The ridiculous numbers on release show how poorly thought out it was, really. If I had to choose between granting my team access to strongest warmogs, strongest black cleaver and innervating locket vs release botrk, we'd be building botrk.
3) support items are terrible. It's a much better situation than last season thanks to sightstone, but still, all of them are upper midrange stuff, and support itemization is so tight due to the budget you can't incorporate random shit items like mana manipulator and expect it not to constrict people's buys. Is manipulator still going to be around in season four? It's an item only a scrub could love, it's so incredibly specific and has such unrealistic, unremarkable use cases.
The worst part is they're all so boring. Where's the cool stuff like a LoL-ized force staff? It would be so easy to make that play pattern fit into lol's design philosophy, instead we get zzzz three minute cooldown cleanses. The wildest effect this season was ohmwrecker and it's unbearably shitty. Who is pushing these ad items to triple their intended cost efficiency but maintains such a careful fucking eye on ohmwrecker?
Sightstone does good work but it's only a bandage that makes solo queue bearable. The whole vast ward issue has not been properly addressed.
4) wriggles, is there still anyone pretending this item is buyable? it's an obsolete design, only partially because of the awkwardness of the fact it presumes you need a vamp scepter to jungle but costs a million gold before it helps you out with that. I still like my idea of giving madreds an on hit life proc vs monsters and then having it upgrade into ghostblade. I guess the whole jungle item thing worked out okay, not as well as I thought it would, but even so can we please take the mana off the spirit stone path and have camps give it to you for killing them? it feels just awful building a spirit stone on a manaless hero even though 9/10 times it's right. Gauntlet is fine, makes you have to hard engage over just brute forcing your way to victory, and it weakens bruisers who can leave top lane scary enough to 1v5 unless you can kite. Blade is just a better solution than BT, so why not build it every game on adc? Yes it also works on other champs (see assassins) and is just an all around good item, but definitely not broken (as you state). Support items should be terrible, and you should feel terrible for building them. 9 times out of 10 you should use the 475g in an oracles and a ward instead of a ruby crystal, and unless you're backing with 2k gold you should fill up on consumables first, items later. A 40 minute game with you having ruby sightstone, kindlegem, upgraded boots (with homeguard), and have had oracles on you since minute 20 is exactly what you want from a support. Vision > any single item for a support. You complain about wriggles but what about Atma's? What about Ohmwrecker? (not even good on Kassadin) What about Executioner's Calling? Just needed one item to hate on so wriggles fit? he did complain about ohmwrecker and mana manipulator. read his post and put an effort to actually reply to it next time please. Also LOL at "Blade is just a better solution than BT". The way I see it, one item should never be outright stronger than other unless it's an upgrade. IE should never be "always better" than BT and it isnt because they provide different things (more dmg vs lifesteal). BT vs BotRK is just redundant because Blade provides better stats than BT (and than PD for that matter) without being a direct upgrade over them, erasing those items from the game. One item should be better than another in some situation / champions like IE is better on ADC than Rabadons and Raba better on AP than IE. Thornmail better than SV or Hexdrinker vs all ad team. Botrk is just straight up better than those two items, always, and a point cant even be made about it being the most expensive item so it should be better (because first, it isnt the most expensive item) and I can also give you the example of dota where Rapier is the most +damage and expensive item and it's never a 100% buy.
Except BotRK is not the item that a lot of adcs buy. Varus and Graves build BT because of scaling abilities, Cait and Ashe build BT or IE because they lack strong steroids that scale with AS.
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On September 08 2013 22:42 misirlou wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 21:17 Sponkz wrote:On September 08 2013 19:59 Zdrastochye wrote:On September 08 2013 19:28 UniversalSnip wrote:
Riot's biggest season 3 item mistakes in my opinion, in no particular order:
1) frozen gauntlet. I fucking hate this item, once in a million games you see some silver leaguer buy it on a melee but 99% of the time it does nothing but help a kiting hero wreck melee. It's so obnoxious getting procced on by it, fuck this garbage, what is the item doing, exactly, to make the game better?
2) blade of the ruined king. it's not even particularly broken anymore after it hit the three million nerfs mark last week, but you can tell something is wrong because over the course of one game it usually outcompetes multiple of phantom dancer, bloodthirster, wriggles, wit's end, tiamat, until recently trinity, and more I'm not thinking of, as well as of course various garbage items like rageblade. Of course it's also another amazing kite item when they spent the first two seasons rolling back slows. I can't think of a stat this item doesn't give, I'm surprised it doesn't have protection from homarids.
What I really don't get about this is why they wouldn't just make the niche options better instead of making one crazy generalist item. You actually end up with less net item variety and less choices because this thing exists. I think it was intended to counter health stacking, but they just threw so much shit on it that role got completely subordinated to providing stat value and the total amount of health built varied exactly 0%. The ridiculous numbers on release show how poorly thought out it was, really. If I had to choose between granting my team access to strongest warmogs, strongest black cleaver and innervating locket vs release botrk, we'd be building botrk.
3) support items are terrible. It's a much better situation than last season thanks to sightstone, but still, all of them are upper midrange stuff, and support itemization is so tight due to the budget you can't incorporate random shit items like mana manipulator and expect it not to constrict people's buys. Is manipulator still going to be around in season four? It's an item only a scrub could love, it's so incredibly specific and has such unrealistic, unremarkable use cases.
The worst part is they're all so boring. Where's the cool stuff like a LoL-ized force staff? It would be so easy to make that play pattern fit into lol's design philosophy, instead we get zzzz three minute cooldown cleanses. The wildest effect this season was ohmwrecker and it's unbearably shitty. Who is pushing these ad items to triple their intended cost efficiency but maintains such a careful fucking eye on ohmwrecker?
Sightstone does good work but it's only a bandage that makes solo queue bearable. The whole vast ward issue has not been properly addressed.
4) wriggles, is there still anyone pretending this item is buyable? it's an obsolete design, only partially because of the awkwardness of the fact it presumes you need a vamp scepter to jungle but costs a million gold before it helps you out with that. I still like my idea of giving madreds an on hit life proc vs monsters and then having it upgrade into ghostblade. I guess the whole jungle item thing worked out okay, not as well as I thought it would, but even so can we please take the mana off the spirit stone path and have camps give it to you for killing them? it feels just awful building a spirit stone on a manaless hero even though 9/10 times it's right. Gauntlet is fine, makes you have to hard engage over just brute forcing your way to victory, and it weakens bruisers who can leave top lane scary enough to 1v5 unless you can kite. Blade is just a better solution than BT, so why not build it every game on adc? Yes it also works on other champs (see assassins) and is just an all around good item, but definitely not broken (as you state). Support items should be terrible, and you should feel terrible for building them. 9 times out of 10 you should use the 475g in an oracles and a ward instead of a ruby crystal, and unless you're backing with 2k gold you should fill up on consumables first, items later. A 40 minute game with you having ruby sightstone, kindlegem, upgraded boots (with homeguard), and have had oracles on you since minute 20 is exactly what you want from a support. Vision > any single item for a support. You complain about wriggles but what about Atma's? What about Ohmwrecker? (not even good on Kassadin) What about Executioner's Calling? Just needed one item to hate on so wriggles fit? lol You question him? just look at dota. No supports there building Meca,Pipe or Force Staff
This is a pretty big misconception. #5 role supports don't really tend to build those items. Mek/Pipe is generally a #3 or #4. A 5th can't get it in time to really be useful. The typical 5th role support tends to get wand, boots, wards and maybe urn/medalion then ghost scepter/force staff way later into the game. You only really see supports get more if they run really greedy(Navi style) but that's at the cost of someone else's farm.
In LoL you also have 2 supports in Jungler and "Support". It's just people don't often view the jungler as #4 and support as #5 or they want the jungler to be able to shift between 4->3. That's also why Locket/Aegis/Bulwurk was more common on jungler than support because it makes more sense for a jungler/4 to pick it up earlier.
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On September 08 2013 16:00 JonGalt wrote:
Dragon champion wooooooooo!
forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=41356104#post41356104
Interesting...
Smite has a god called Ao Kuang - looks very similar, and is wind and weather powers and shit.
Mayhaps I have a new mid to learn?
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United States37500 Posts
On September 08 2013 23:30 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 16:00 JonGalt wrote:
Dragon champion wooooooooo!
forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=41356104#post41356104 Interesting... Smite has a god called Ao Kuang - looks very similar, and is wind and weather powers and shit. Mayhaps I have a new mid to learn?
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EPT
