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On September 08 2013 00:48 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 00:38 kongoline wrote:On September 08 2013 00:26 Slusher wrote:
unlike the sick plays in s2 worlds, that one time when Toyz got Scarra's big wrath OHHHH MAN.
The Gifs were off the charts. but you know its like your opinion personally i liked jayce, he got completely dumpstered by nerfs and rework is on the way just because 1 item was too strong, at least gragas is comming back its the champ i love to watch who requires insane amount of skill also comparing lb burst to ahri and not looking overall on their kits is dumb I'm actually really sad about Jayce, BT Jayce is pretty balanced but nobody can see that through the fog of Jayce blowing people up with muramana+W from the 17 min point forward into 6 items at 25 min. The fact that Riot still thinks he needs a rework especially after the gate nerf is a mistake in my opinion but like you said, thats just my opinion.
Riot's reason for their tweaks is actually rather close to what you said: BT Jayce was always fine (well, once you nerfed his utterly stupid laning phase to where it should belong considering his scaling with both farm and levels), but because Muramana Jayce would always be optimal no matter what they changed, they're rather modify the kit in a deeper way so that BT and bruiser builds aren't so inferior to Muramana all the time.
I can get behind the idea, because it makes sense and it's not even openly wrong. The implementation, of course, will be another beast entirely.
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On September 08 2013 01:05 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 00:48 Slusher wrote:On September 08 2013 00:38 kongoline wrote:On September 08 2013 00:26 Slusher wrote:
unlike the sick plays in s2 worlds, that one time when Toyz got Scarra's big wrath OHHHH MAN.
The Gifs were off the charts. but you know its like your opinion personally i liked jayce, he got completely dumpstered by nerfs and rework is on the way just because 1 item was too strong, at least gragas is comming back its the champ i love to watch who requires insane amount of skill also comparing lb burst to ahri and not looking overall on their kits is dumb I'm actually really sad about Jayce, BT Jayce is pretty balanced but nobody can see that through the fog of Jayce blowing people up with muramana+W from the 17 min point forward into 6 items at 25 min. The fact that Riot still thinks he needs a rework especially after the gate nerf is a mistake in my opinion but like you said, thats just my opinion. I can get behind the idea, because it makes sense and it's not even openly wrong. The implementation, of course, will be another beast entirely.
Riot balancing in a nutshell  . I do believe they will eventually get there just need to be patient. Maybe next season Jayce will make a return after league of Tri-force is over.
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On September 08 2013 00:48 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 00:38 kongoline wrote:On September 08 2013 00:26 Slusher wrote:
unlike the sick plays in s2 worlds, that one time when Toyz got Scarra's big wrath OHHHH MAN.
The Gifs were off the charts. but you know its like your opinion personally i liked jayce, he got completely dumpstered by nerfs and rework is on the way just because 1 item was too strong, at least gragas is comming back its the champ i love to watch who requires insane amount of skill also comparing lb burst to ahri and not looking overall on their kits is dumb I'm actually really sad about Jayce, BT Jayce is pretty balanced but nobody can see that through the fog of Jayce blowing people up with muramana+W from the 17 min point forward into 6 items at 25 min. The fact that Riot still thinks he needs a rework especially after the gate nerf is a mistake in my opinion but like you said, thats just my opinion.
Riot thought he needed a rework before the gate nerf, but since that would take time, they applied the nerf as a band-aid fix to prevent League of Jayce.
It's another case of players not using a champion's kit in the way that the designers intended (which is understandable for a hybrid champion with 6 abilities, but I hope that they learn to not get as hung up about it in the future).
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I got basically dumpstered in GD for saying that Jayce E nerf + muramana charge nerf was going to be enough, people just get so annoyed with strong champions that they don't think objectively.
The thing is at any point in time something is going to be the best, competative gamers are by nature analytical, they can and will find the optimal champions, the trick is to not nerf the current best to the point where they won't be able to compete with what will be the best after the nerf.
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these eu times, brb crying.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On September 08 2013 01:20 AsnSensation wrote:these eu times, brb crying.
Europe made it through CLG.EU vs WE, we can make it through anything.
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I was really surprised by the first tower win-rate being so low, until I saw the final chart.
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United States23745 Posts
Tangentially related to LoL, booked my ticket for the finals, pretty pumped.
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On September 08 2013 01:24 onlywonderboy wrote:
Tangentially related to LoL, booked my ticket for the finals, pretty pumped.
Well somebody is a high-roller.
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Great article!
NA LCS confirmed Game of Throws :0
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Vods are avalible on the onegamenet2 channel :D
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On September 08 2013 01:24 onlywonderboy wrote:
Tangentially related to LoL, booked my ticket for the finals, pretty pumped.
Dont forget to take pics !
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United States23745 Posts
On September 08 2013 01:28 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 01:24 onlywonderboy wrote:
Tangentially related to LoL, booked my ticket for the finals, pretty pumped. Well somebody is a high-roller.
Plane tickets are too expensive, but I couldn't pass up the chance to go, especially if Season 4 ends up being in Korea.
And yes, plenty of pictures will be taken.
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Can I ask what you're sample size is? Obviously you used all the LCS games in NA and EU, but did you do the last 2 OGN seasons? Just this season? I assume no NLB, because reports are hard to come by.
Basically I feel that the Korean numbers could be weighted by the group stage #s where there is a greater disparity between the Top teams (SKT, KT etc) and the also rans (IM, Xenics, etc) wheras in the LCS season we get an even distribution of games between the top and bottom teams.
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The lag on EU-West is back. Yay.
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On September 08 2013 01:40 IceteaGuy wrote:
The lag on EU-West is back. Yay.
was it ever gone lol?
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On September 08 2013 01:19 Slusher wrote:
I got basically dumpstered in GD for saying that Jayce E nerf + muramana charge nerf was going to be enough, people just get so annoyed with strong champions that they don't think objectively.
He disappeared so fast off the face of the pro scene that I'm left wondering how harsh the nerfs actually were, though.
I mean, Jayce wasn't just strong the way release Vi, pre-nerf J4, Xin, Hecarim, Varus, etc. were, he was utterly overwhelming, similar to how pre-nerf (and pre-Ahri rediscovery, hue) TF was, or Zac, Zed, etc. so how "bad" is he really right now?
The gate nerfs are more or less the same as if Kha'Zix's W cd had been increased: his poke still does as much damage, however it takes longer to kill somebody assuming you're hit% remains the same? The Tear changes mean that his "close-up" damage is weakened for a longer period (till he gets Muramana) and also that it takes longer before he can just ride his base damage in lane* since he won't have the mana pool as quickly.
I mean, as somebody not playing Jayce I clearly see how it makes him not as overly powerful as before, but is the change that big that he's deemed competitively unviable? Is it because hitting his timing later makes him mesh less well with other popular picks than he used too? Not strong enough/timing too short compared to better scaling (despite his own already being very good) solo laners? Is it impossible to build BT and then rely on blue buff to keep poking (higher E cd also means lower mp5 requirements)?
He didn't feel any less oppressive to me during sieges—he has to be more patient because it takes longer to fire the X combos necessary to force a back/drop one low enough to initiate, but is that enough to make him "underpowered" rather than "reasonably strong"?
When I saw him completely disappear I felt as if people completely stopped playing Shen because "Zac is on a class above the rest so every single champ above that class isn't worth it".
* Any champion who can build Tear first and not suffer at one stage or the other for it is going to be an issue. Karthus give up lane presence, Cass remains hyper-squishy despite her short range and relying on sustained damage over burst, Kassadin and Ryze are weak early on, Orianna and other more streamlined mages give up damage for awhile, etc.
Jayce and Kha'Zix would rush Tear and still be able to outdamage champions building double dblade instead, Yorick would use the Tear to outsustain anyone, etc.
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i still wait for hydra khazix to be discovered and called the new OP(no tear is needed now), guess zed needs to be nerfed first for this to happen
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On September 08 2013 01:37 Amethyst21 wrote:Can I ask what you're sample size is? Obviously you used all the LCS games in NA and EU, but did you do the last 2 OGN seasons? Just this season? I assume no NLB, because reports are hard to come by. Basically I feel that the Korean numbers could be weighted by the group stage #s where there is a greater disparity between the Top teams (SKT, KT etc) and the also rans (IM, Xenics, etc) wheras in the LCS season we get an even distribution of games between the top and bottom teams.
I used OGN summer and a little bit of the Korea Regionals as it was available (i said that in the article!!).
I agree with your 2nd point, I dont think these numbers completely imply causation. I just wanted to point out the interesting correlation.
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EPT
