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On October 01 2013 01:03 turdburgler wrote:
they couldnt organize 5 blow up beds, how are they ever gonna organize a lol team? ;/
really though, the way he talked about their situation they sounded like a bunch of children, not teenagers, children. in weeks with a free house provided for them by friends they couldnt get past ramen noodles and mildew on the walls? i have little sympathy for their inability to find practice time if that was their attitude to the situation.
The combination of poor planning, Lack of start-up funds, and inexperience is a lot to overcome for any new team entering the LCS. its unsurprising that Velocity had issues. C9 got lucky in that they had an experienced manager who knew what was going on. Velocity and Marn were test subjects essentially. Both of them struggled with issues and ended up not succeeding. both had inexperienced managers. No offense to Guitar of course. I'll be one of the first people to jump on him about his team not doing well. But he cares a lot about his team so i'm sure if there was more he felt he could do he was trying to do it. Its unreasonable to assume he could front the bill for his entire team without strong sponsors backing his organization, And i'm sure going into the next year of organization he's going to have a full plan in order to prevent the same mistakes.
Its pretty telling that with the new teams in the NA scene both struggled with issues based on the way they had to handle moving to a house and everything. Riots system of a central Southern Cali headquarters works best if the players are all around that area to begin with, and can meet up to practice daily instead of having to all move in from across the country and somehow make it work. There are a lot of odds stacked against the new teams entering into LCS and this doesn't have to be one of them.
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On October 01 2013 01:12 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 01:03 turdburgler wrote:
they couldnt organize 5 blow up beds, how are they ever gonna organize a lol team? ;/
really though, the way he talked about their situation they sounded like a bunch of children, not teenagers, children. in weeks with a free house provided for them by friends they couldnt get past ramen noodles and mildew on the walls? i have little sympathy for their inability to find practice time if that was their attitude to the situation. Teenagers are children. Hell men are children too in some ways and long to be in others.
the key difference here is that teenagers are able to bypass those child proof locks on those bottles of bathroom cleaner.
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On October 01 2013 01:13 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 01:12 Numy wrote:On October 01 2013 01:03 turdburgler wrote:
they couldnt organize 5 blow up beds, how are they ever gonna organize a lol team? ;/
really though, the way he talked about their situation they sounded like a bunch of children, not teenagers, children. in weeks with a free house provided for them by friends they couldnt get past ramen noodles and mildew on the walls? i have little sympathy for their inability to find practice time if that was their attitude to the situation. Teenagers are children. Hell men are children too in some ways and long to be in others. the key difference here is that teenagers are able to bypass those child proof locks on those bottles of bathroom cleaner.
You act as if knowing how something is done and doing it for yourself is the same thing. I wonder if most pro gamers even know how to do their own laundry or cook or clean or manage their bank accounts or even go to the bank alone or go to home affairs(Don't know what it's called in USA). I know it has taken me years to learn how to live on my own and I'm not even fully on my own as I have my folks(Across country but still) a phone call away. Learning all these skills while being thrust into a totally new environment and having the pressure of LCS on your back I don't envy them. My first year of Uni I was at least at res which gave us food and shelter, even then it was hard to learn to be alone. The friends I knew who went to digs alone battled but at least they had us around to help them.
Myself and Yango have said this all too often but I can't say this enough. The way these teams try make teamhouses work in the West is just not the right way to do it. There should always be a place to rest and a place to work. Separate these two entities so that one might learn how to manage both instead of thrusting it all at once. It's completely irresponsible to throw these kids into a house/flat/apartment and expect them to know how to both train and live.
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On October 01 2013 01:07 TheYango wrote:
This is sort of why I've always hated how the LoL community tries to disjoin the terms "shot-caller" and "captain" when it comes to competitive teams. It implies that you can call the shots in the game but somehow also not otherwise be the "leader" for the team.
I think there's a difference between game-related strategy/decision making & leadership and logistics, social, finance and more. Different people have different skills, and letting other people have responsibilities can achieve greater buy-in and reduce the "captain's" burnout. That applies pretty strongly to the way LoL teams have decided to mirror the live-in environments of Korea instead of western workplaces. Admittedly, figuring out how to set people up to succeed is the most important leadership role and if you already have one within a group things often circle back towards that person. I've had several situations where I've either been the on-the-field leader and not otherwise, or vice versa. I think the biggest issue for western LoL (and esport) teams is a lack of experience, both individually and institutionally.
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The key difference is with Korean "environments" there is often a more responsible party organizing everything, even sacrificing a lot to afford for the environment in the first place. While it's not always the case it often was/is and was borne out of necessity at the time. There isn't that dire need at the LCS that requires such sacrifice.
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cooking and cleaning decent food i can understand, it can be daunting. but he said himself he had no access to a computer, and really hated sleeping on the floor. so he had motivation and he had time, and he did literally nothing.
but really i place the blame with their manager, coach (?) whatever he is. his job is to facilitate his team to be the best they can be. whether that means studying vods with them, providing them information or getting them some decent food and a bed. whats the point of that guys job if he provides nothing for his team.
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United States37500 Posts
I'd be best manager NA. Someone plz hire.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 01 2013 01:20 Haiq343 wrote:
logistics, social, finance and more.
None of these should be up to a player to manage. A legitimate professional organization forcing a player to handle these aspects and not a manager is a failing of the organization. Obviously an amateur team has to have someone doing both, but we're talking about professional organizations with managers here.
Even if you had a player managing those kinds of things, how the hell would the term "captain" be appropriate for it?
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On October 01 2013 01:24 NeoIllusions wrote:
I'd be best manager NA. Someone plz hire.
Can't even keep me in check. How you gonna deal with overinflated LCS egos?
Neo plz.
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On October 01 2013 01:24 NeoIllusions wrote:
I'd be best manager NA. Someone plz hire.
i need to see proof that you can inflate blow up beds and clean bathrooms first.
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On October 01 2013 01:24 TheYango wrote:None of these should be up to a player to manage. A legitimate professional organization forcing a player to handle these aspects and not a manager is a failing of the organization. Obviously an amateur team has to have someone doing both, but we're talking about professional organizations with managers here.
We aren't though are we really. Instead we are talking about people that are trying to be professional without any skills or training in matters within that field. I guess we should be asking ourselves is it truly right to expect organizations and managers to be capable of their duty when they aren't professionals in the field? Do we expect an amateur player to perform at the same height as a professional player?
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On October 01 2013 01:24 NeoIllusions wrote:
I'd be best manager NA. Someone plz hire.
Best manager on the worst team.
Not worth.
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On October 01 2013 01:19 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 01:13 turdburgler wrote:On October 01 2013 01:12 Numy wrote:On October 01 2013 01:03 turdburgler wrote:
they couldnt organize 5 blow up beds, how are they ever gonna organize a lol team? ;/
really though, the way he talked about their situation they sounded like a bunch of children, not teenagers, children. in weeks with a free house provided for them by friends they couldnt get past ramen noodles and mildew on the walls? i have little sympathy for their inability to find practice time if that was their attitude to the situation. Teenagers are children. Hell men are children too in some ways and long to be in others. the key difference here is that teenagers are able to bypass those child proof locks on those bottles of bathroom cleaner. You act as if knowing how something is done and doing it for yourself is the same thing. I wonder if most pro gamers even know how to do their own laundry or cook or clean or manage their bank accounts or even go to the bank alone or go to home affairs(Don't know what it's called in USA). I know it has taken me years to learn how to live on my own and I'm not even fully on my own as I have my folks(Across country but still) a phone call away. Learning all these skills while being thrust into a totally new environment and having the pressure of LCS on your back I don't envy them. My first year of Uni I was at least at res which gave us food and shelter, even then it was hard to learn to be alone. The friends I knew who went to digs alone battled but at least they had us around to help them. Myself and Yango have said this all too often but I can't say this enough. The way these teams try make teamhouses work in the West is just not the right way to do it. There should always be a place to rest and a place to work. Separate these two entities so that one might learn how to manage both instead of thrusting it all at once. It's completely irresponsible to throw these kids into a house/flat/apartment and expect them to know how to both train and live.
I mean, I agree that a separation of work and 'life' is ideal, but it's prohibitively expensive for pretty much every entity in esports at this point. To make that work, you either need to be ok with practicing across potentially different timezones, with varying pings(something that becomes immensely important when every game that actually matters will be on LAN ping, something you will absolutely not adjust to immediately), or already all live in the same area, and that area being somewhere in the southwest ideally.
The closest model that would work is the bootcamp model that teams use(d) to prep for huge LAN tourneys in past competitive gaming, but when you have a league system that spans months in duration, that just isn't feasible. I don't envy any manager of a 'new' team that doesn't have sponsorship backing getting that initial shit together. How did Vulcun and GGU handle it(I don't think either team really had much going for them upon their qualifying)?
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On September 30 2013 23:31 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 23:24 AsmodeusXI wrote:On September 30 2013 23:18 Leonite7 wrote:
I haven't played the game for about a month or so, if someone could give me a brief run through of the meta that would be really appreciated, alternatively if there is some sort of resource for this that would also be greatly appreciated. Quick rundown. - Buy Triforce and Spirit Visage
- Ban Corki, Zed, Ahri, Fizz, Kassadin (assassins are a big deal, TF is OP on Corki especially)
- Tanky top laners are great, but Renekton is top-tier (also, as Req says below, people like Jax)
- Tanky junglers are also good; buy Mobos and SotAG and Locket (maybe) and then Oracles and wards forever.
- If you don't like playing assassin mids, get Ori or Gragas
wtf you talking about Gragas is totally assassin. Like a fat ninja.
Totally picturing Beverly Hills Ninja after that comment.
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People piling on Gtrs seem to forget that he was all over the internet trying to get their housing set-up, and being open about the difficulties involved. It sucks to move as adult; finding a nice appt you can afford takes for-fucking-ever and I can't imagine the extra difficulties involved in trying to find it for 6people who may/may-not have the pertinent financial history a landlord is going to want.
@Numy. Totally agree. Ideally Riot would've been better able to support the newer teams, but I suspect they were just as underprepared for the difficulties involved. It's a whole new collection of job skills & the number of people who could be resources to assist newer teams is pretty tiny.
Yango: I wouldn't call them the captain, ofc. I think the issue is that the teams are amateur/ semi-pro and are rarely going to have the kind of professional support network that a professional team could expect. It's not like Barcelona's soccer schools that have a whole support institution, but something much more haphazard. That obviously leads to poor/inexperienced decision making.
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United States37500 Posts
On October 01 2013 01:24 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 01:24 NeoIllusions wrote:
I'd be best manager NA. Someone plz hire. Can't even keep me in check. How you gonna deal with overinflated LCS egos? Neo plz.
You survive due to my good graces.
Rawflez plz.
Edit: you can't tell me what to do, PX!
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On October 01 2013 01:30 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 01:24 Roffles wrote:On October 01 2013 01:24 NeoIllusions wrote:
I'd be best manager NA. Someone plz hire. Can't even keep me in check. How you gonna deal with overinflated LCS egos? Neo plz. You survive due to my good graces. Roffles plz.
you spelled ruffles wrong good sir.
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this all still leaves the mystery of the team thats out there still playing LCS with a 25% mildew bathroom and not having a problem with it.
dat fungal infection coming up.
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On October 01 2013 01:35 turdburgler wrote:
this all still leaves the mystery of the team thats out there still playing LCS with a 25% mildew bathroom and not having a problem with it.
dat fungal infection coming up.
Its really not uncommon for people in their late teens early twenties to not keep a bathroom clean. I've been in enough student housing to know this is true unfortunately.
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On October 01 2013 01:30 Haiq343 wrote:
@Numy. Totally agree. Ideally Riot would've been better able to support the newer teams, but I suspect they were just as underprepared for the difficulties involved. It's a whole new collection of job skills & the number of people who could be resources to assist newer teams is pretty tiny.
I almost think what teams need more than money is just expertise in the field. Maybe instead of just giving teams the money riot can instead use the money they give to set up housing not for a single team but for all teams and play areas too. It might not be ideal for the bigger teams but if they do it in such a way that the they have many a few apartments/housing for 2-3 teams(The ones that frequent in and out of LCS) and maybe a large playing area or two that is setup away from the housing(Thinking an office with a lot of floorspace to make pc stations).
My thinking is that just giving an infant money doesn't solve any of this needs and actually creates more. If you instead use that money for them at least until they learn how to it ends up better.
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EPT
