• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:05
CEST 00:05
KST 07:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway52v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature2Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy8uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event17Serral wins EWC 202549
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments7[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread 2v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature Is there a way to see if 2 accounts=1 person? uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments SEL Masters #5 - Korea vs Russia (SC Evo) Enki Epic Series #5 - TaeJa vs Classic (SC Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull
Brood War
General
Which top zerg/toss will fail in qualifiers? BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway ASL 20 HYPE VIDEO! How do the new Battle.net ranks translate?
Tourneys
BWCL Season 63 Announcement Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches KCM 2025 Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI The year 2050
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Biochemical Cost of Gami…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2427 users

[Patch 3.11] General Discussion - Page 245

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 243 244 245 246 247 331 Next
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
September 24 2013 18:29 GMT
#4881
On September 25 2013 03:27 JonGalt wrote:
As someone who has interacted with sheep for the past 11.5 months on a daily basis I can confirm they are super awesome, cuddly, AND tasty - YUM.

Baby sheep are also top 10 cutest animals ever.


Please create tier list in OT thread. Should be great MoonBear fodder.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
September 24 2013 18:30 GMT
#4882
On September 25 2013 03:29 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2013 03:27 JonGalt wrote:
As someone who has interacted with sheep for the past 11.5 months on a daily basis I can confirm they are super awesome, cuddly, AND tasty - YUM.

Baby sheep are also top 10 cutest animals ever.


Please create tier list in OT thread. Should be great MoonBear fodder.

Humans are the cutest animals ever.

Super awesome and tasty too.
It's your boy Guzma!
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
September 24 2013 18:30 GMT
#4883
That brings me to another point - I believe that support isn't the one who should be getting the oracles that you use for moving around as a pack of 5, especially around baron area. IMO that should be the jungler or even solo top. Support is too easily removed.

It would help alot if they made Oracle's Elixir a targetable item and the target received the buff. That way you could give it to your fulltank solo top without them having to hurt for items.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
NeedsmoreCELLTECH
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Netherlands1242 Posts
September 24 2013 18:31 GMT
#4884
On September 25 2013 03:30 Shikyo wrote:
That brings me to another point - I believe that support isn't the one who should be getting the oracles that you use for moving around as a pack of 5, especially around baron area. IMO that should be the jungler or even solo top. Support is too easily removed.

It would help alot if they made Oracle's Elixir a targetable item and the target received the buff. That way you could give it to your fulltank solo top without them having to hurt for items.

Idk, support doesn't need to buy the damage and penetration items so they aren't as gold starved. Also they almost never get like sunfire so they can clear baron way easier than a jungler/solo top who does have sunfire and will aggro baron.
Get huge or die mirin | Diamond on LoL
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
September 24 2013 18:32 GMT
#4885
On September 25 2013 03:30 Shikyo wrote:
That brings me to another point - I believe that support isn't the one who should be getting the oracles that you use for moving around as a pack of 5, especially around baron area. IMO that should be the jungler or even solo top. Support is too easily removed.

It would help alot if they made Oracle's Elixir a targetable item and the target received the buff. That way you could give it to your fulltank solo top without them having to hurt for items.


As someone who normally plays a tanky jungler, I love getting Oracle's, esp if I can finish my Golem/Mobos early.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
September 24 2013 18:47 GMT
#4886
On September 25 2013 03:32 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2013 03:30 Shikyo wrote:
That brings me to another point - I believe that support isn't the one who should be getting the oracles that you use for moving around as a pack of 5, especially around baron area. IMO that should be the jungler or even solo top. Support is too easily removed.

It would help alot if they made Oracle's Elixir a targetable item and the target received the buff. That way you could give it to your fulltank solo top without them having to hurt for items.


As someone who normally plays a tanky jungler, I love getting Oracle's, esp if I can finish my Golem/Mobos early.

I normally consider golem/mobos the only thing I need on a jungle, pretty much everything after oracle spam unless they're AP reliant so aegis is a bonus
Glorious SEA doto
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
September 24 2013 18:51 GMT
#4887
Gonna use TL to complain about the fact that I really really hate double elimination format and that there's a reason no legitimate sports actually use a double elimination bracket (because it's dumb and unexciting).

Seeing too many posts on reddit of people wishing next worlds or future LoL events will use them but I seriously think they're really really bad. The only exception I can think of was how China did their regionals since having a distinct winner wasn't too important since you really only wanted to place top 2 at Chinese regionals (and sure the #1 seed was nice but top 2 is what everyone was gunning for).

I prefer the current worlds format immensely over any double elimination possibilities. Ideally next year they'll just do like four groups to determine quarter finals instead of having two groups and giving team quarter final byes.
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
September 24 2013 18:55 GMT
#4888
On September 25 2013 03:51 overt wrote:
Gonna use TL to complain about the fact that I really really hate double elimination format and that there's a reason no legitimate sports actually use a double elimination bracket (because it's dumb and unexciting).

Seeing too many posts on reddit of people wishing next worlds or future LoL events will use them but I seriously think they're really really bad. The only exception I can think of was how China did their regionals since having a distinct winner wasn't too important since you really only wanted to place top 2 at Chinese regionals (and sure the #1 seed was nice but top 2 is what everyone was gunning for).

I prefer the current worlds format immensely over any double elimination possibilities. Ideally next year they'll just do like four groups to determine quarter finals instead of having two groups and giving team quarter final byes.


I think double elimination is better than the current format, but only because it gives quarterfinal "seeds" far more play time. In the current format, the people "seeded" are in a worse position than others because they just don't get to play as many games to prove their quality. Which is stupid.

I think that the best solution (at least to me right now) is a second group stage in which the seeded teams take part. Spread out over enough time, it shouldn't wear TOO much on the teams who go through both groups (and even if it does, that's what happens when you don't win more)
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-24 19:02:23
September 24 2013 18:57 GMT
#4889
I'm not even trying to bitch about worlds format or anything. I just really hate double elimination. You end up with really lame grand finals where one team has an advantage or you cede that advantage and the team coming from winner's gets nothing even though they had a stronger tournament than a team that was already eliminated.

I don't know why the League community (or maybe it's just eSports in general) likes double elimination so much.

If the goal is to remove luck the best format is OGN's where matches are a week apart. If the goal is to ensure teams don't lose just because they choked or whatever then it's really dumb because choking (or even cheese-y strategies) are apart of competition and a team that falters to a "cheese" or to their own bad play doesn't deserve to continue in the tournament. This isn't even addressing the issues that the old school double elim tournaments had with fatigue where teams would be forced to play league for like 8 straight hours. That doesn't produce a good tournament at all imo.
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
September 24 2013 19:00 GMT
#4890
I think the Oracle's carrier really depends on the state of the game.

In my games I get it on jungler or support because the other guy usually won't have one.

Support usually has an easier time safely solo clearing wards because support will have a nice supply of wards and know when they are overextended or not. Support also usually won't be clearing waves so they have the time and space to do it.

I can see it being useful on a jungler in a long laning phase or when towers are being taken slowly, since they are usually the most safe characters with high mobility and general tankiness. They're also great for setting up skirmishes, in which it either helps a lot because you deny vision, or it doesn't help because you spend time clearing wards and less time positioning yourself for an ambush.

If you're 5-manning then it usually doesn't matter as long as one of you has one.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-24 19:05:33
September 24 2013 19:03 GMT
#4891
On September 25 2013 03:57 overt wrote:
I'm not even trying to bitch about worlds format or anything. I just really hate double elimination. You end up with really lame grand finals where one team has an advantage or you cede that advantage and the team coming from winner's gets nothing even though they had a stronger tournament than a team that was already eliminated.

I don't know why the League community (or maybe it's just eSports in general) likes double elimination so much.

If the goal is to remove luck the best format is OGN's where matches are a week apart. If the goal is to ensure teams don't lose just because they choked or whatever then it's really dumb because choking (or even cheese-y strategies) are apart of competition and a team that falters to a "cheese" or to their own bad play doesn't deserve to continue in the tournament. This isn't even addressing the issues that the old school double elim tournaments had with fatigue where teams would be forced to play league for like 8 straight hours. That doesn't produce a good tournament at all imo.


You can get into all this statistical math about how likely a format is to ensure that the most skilled player/team wins the event. Double Elimination might not be as exciting, but it makes it much more likely to ensure this.

The most likely ways statistically are Round Robin and Swiss Pairing, but those are even less exciting, since they don't have "final" matches at all.

Edit: Personally, I'd prefer double elim to the current Worlds format. I am pretty upset with yesterdays games, as are I think a lot of people.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Dark_Chill
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada3353 Posts
September 24 2013 19:04 GMT
#4892
How soon do you guys get boots on a support? That's another thing about oracles, clearing wards while moving like a sloth is not really the most efficient thing.
CUTE MAKES RIGHT
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
September 24 2013 19:07 GMT
#4893
My conspiracy theory is that everyone who's ever complained that double elim grand finals should give an advantage to the WB finalist is just secretly butthurt that their favorite team lost a finals 3-2 when with a 1 game advantage they would have won.
Moderator
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
September 24 2013 19:07 GMT
#4894
On September 25 2013 04:04 Dark_Chill wrote:
How soon do you guys get boots on a support? That's another thing about oracles, clearing wards while moving like a sloth is not really the most efficient thing.

I normally try to get my basic boots after sighstone and try to squeeze in the mobos before spamming oracles.
Glorious SEA doto
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
September 24 2013 19:14 GMT
#4895
On September 25 2013 04:07 TheYango wrote:
My conspiracy theory is that everyone who's ever complained that double elim grand finals should give an advantage to the WB finalist is just secretly butthurt that their favorite team lost a finals 3-2 when with a 1 game advantage they would have won.


I think the biggest issue with double elim grand finals in league is how inconsistent it is. Sometimes it's a one set advantage. Sometimes it's just a one game advantage. In the super early days of league the winner's bracket team would get no advantage at all.

The actual format itself is just silly though especially when it's something scheduled to take place over a single weekend. Even if they did it for worlds next year they'd be forced to have games all week long and the tournament would either have to take an entire month instead of three weeks or else they'd only be able to give teams just a few hours of prep between games not to mention like a day or two of prep for the finals. I just don't think having teams marathon games is a better indicator of which team is the best than a single elim bracket. It's a better display of stamina but not necessarily skill or a team's strategical play.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
September 24 2013 19:16 GMT
#4896
winner side of a double elim gets 5 games as blue. hue
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
September 24 2013 19:16 GMT
#4897
On September 25 2013 04:16 oneofthem wrote:
winner side of a double elim gets 5 games as blue. hue

blind pick finals plis
It's your boy Guzma!
upperbound
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2300 Posts
September 24 2013 19:18 GMT
#4898
On September 25 2013 04:07 TheYango wrote:
My conspiracy theory is that everyone who's ever complained that double elim grand finals should give an advantage to the WB finalist is just secretly butthurt that their favorite team lost a finals 3-2 when with a 1 game advantage they would have won.

I mean if it's really double elim, though, the Winner's bracket finalist should have to get eliminated twice, no? It really does make some sense to give the WB finalist SOME advantage.
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-24 19:19:56
September 24 2013 19:18 GMT
#4899
On September 25 2013 03:51 overt wrote:
Gonna use TL to complain about the fact that I really really hate double elimination format and that there's a reason no legitimate sports actually use a double elimination bracket (because it's dumb and unexciting).

Seeing too many posts on reddit of people wishing next worlds or future LoL events will use them but I seriously think they're really really bad. The only exception I can think of was how China did their regionals since having a distinct winner wasn't too important since you really only wanted to place top 2 at Chinese regionals (and sure the #1 seed was nice but top 2 is what everyone was gunning for).

I prefer the current worlds format immensely over any double elimination possibilities. Ideally next year they'll just do like four groups to determine quarter finals instead of having two groups and giving team quarter final byes.


I hate Double Elim, as well, especially if the winner bracket gets an advantage in the grand finals.

Imo should just use the same system as the footballer World cup next year.( well actually it's European Cup since WC has 32 teams)

16 teams, groups of 4s and then single elim like we have right now, probably with bo5 starting in the quarters already.
Doctorbeat
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands13241 Posts
September 24 2013 19:22 GMT
#4900
There is for example in several martial arts, the normal brackets, but everyone who loses gets placed into the loser bracket, but can't compete for silver/gold anymore. Might be interesting.

Or otherwise, just put the top teams from each region in the groups but give them a 1 game win advantage from the start or something.
- TEAM LIQUID - doctorbeat on LoL
Prev 1 243 244 245 246 247 331 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL Team Wars
19:00
Round 3
Team Sziky vs Team Hawk
ZZZero.O128
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
CosmosSc2 115
ForJumy 44
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 15524
Rain 1960
ZZZero.O 128
ggaemo 74
ToSsGirL 39
Dota 2
syndereN598
NeuroSwarm93
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 486
Counter-Strike
fl0m2728
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu676
Other Games
tarik_tv20914
Grubby3457
FrodaN1061
B2W.Neo701
PiGStarcraft507
SteadfastSC55
JuggernautJason17
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1716
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 38
• RyuSc2 17
• davetesta6
• Kozan
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21564
League of Legends
• Doublelift4716
Counter-Strike
• imaqtpie1028
• Shiphtur135
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
11h 55m
Sharp vs Ample
Larva vs Stork
Wardi Open
16h 55m
RotterdaM Event
17h 55m
Replay Cast
1d 1h
Replay Cast
1d 11h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 11h
JyJ vs TY
Bisu vs Speed
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 12h
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Mini vs TBD
Soma vs sSak
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
SC Evo League
5 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
5 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
SC Evo League
6 days
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-08-13
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
CSLAN 3
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.