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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
(sunfire->randuins->TM). ~8k gold, that can defend against ~12-15k of ADC itemization. But fully built due to multiplicative scaling, they do almost unreasonable amounts of damage, even to a fully armored tank if somebody else provides armor shredding. Goals I think will be to somewhat reduce the effectiveness of midgame armor itemization, while simultaneously reducing lategame armor shredding efficacy. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On September 13 2013 05:21 Amui wrote: Until the 4-5 offensive item stage for most ADC's, they don't do enough damage to a tanky bruiser to be a threat. (sunfire->randuins->TM). ~8k gold, that can defend against ~12-15k of ADC itemization. But fully built due to multiplicative scaling, they do almost unreasonable amounts of damage, even to a fully armored tank if somebody else provides armor shredding. Goals I think will be to somewhat reduce the effectiveness of midgame armor itemization, while simultaneously reducing lategame armor shredding efficacy. The only ADC's I can think of at 4-5 item stage that actually do a significant amount of damage lategame at that point against 3 big armor item bruiser, are Vayne, Trist, and Kog'maw. Have you seen a Cait trying to pink away at a shen with thornmail+randuins+funfire? even with full build? | ||
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Haiq343
United States2548 Posts
On September 13 2013 05:15 wei2coolman wrote: That was maybe true for LW on some champions, but Voidstaff wasn't quite nearly as obvious. There were plenty of other itemizations you'd want to aim for before Voidstaff. Usually DFG/Zhonya's/Chalice/DC/Morellos/Liandries/Abyssal/RoA/Seraphs, most AP carries want at least 2 of these items before getting Voidstaff, just due to sheer utility of them, outside of damage. LW 2nd is a maybe, considering which ADC's, but multplicative scaling from AS and Crit, usually reserved LW to 3rd item. People may skip voidstaff regularly, that's largely because they suck at math or are following the lead of someone else who also sucks at math. ('Murican's can legitimately blame the way math is taught in schools for their mathematical illiteracies). The reasonable argument is that LW/Void etc should be good as a counter to tankiness, but should not be good always. They currently are always good. Zed's build what, Bork Cleaver Lw? To nuke the enemy squishies? That's painfully dumb design. SV + Omen are probably too strong also, but that's not the same issue at all. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On September 13 2013 05:24 Haiq343 wrote: People may skip voidstaff regularly, that's largely because they suck at math or are following the lead of someone else who also sucks at math. ('Murican's can legitimately blame the way math is taught in schools for their mathematical illiteracies). The reasonable argument is that LW/Void etc should be good as a counter to tankiness, but should not be good always. They currently are always good. Zed's build what, Bork Cleaver Lw? To nuke the enemy squishies? That's painfully dumb design. SV + Omen are probably too strong also, but that's not the same issue at all. Well Zed in general is a painfully stupid design. The reason LW and Void is so core, is because of how stupidly effective shit like randuins and SV are. I guess I'm just still sore as fuck from how badly they raped ADC's in the S3 changes. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
On September 13 2013 03:36 kainzero wrote: ? I was talking about people plugging in Ahri in pubs thinking she's broken when they don't have the team to back her up. Definitely looking forward to more Lissandra in Worlds though. I feel like she does well in lane and in teamfights against the current popular picks of Ahri/Fizz/Zed. I would argue that Ahri fills almost any team in pubs, at Plat or below where my experience lies, can't speak about diamond or challenger though. Basically the ability to completely pick someone off from a screen away(dont need a pick comp to do it, your a 1 man pick comp), the high mobility, etc.. She is a really safe pick for me as I'm comfortable on her, your probably referencing players just picking her up or picking her cause shes popular. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On September 13 2013 05:24 Haiq343 wrote: People may skip voidstaff regularly, that's largely because they suck at math or are following the lead of someone else who also sucks at math. ('Murican's can legitimately blame the way math is taught in schools for their mathematical illiteracies). The reasonable argument is that LW/Void etc should be good as a counter to tankiness, but should not be good always. They currently are always good. Zed's build what, Bork Cleaver Lw? To nuke the enemy squishies? That's painfully dumb design. SV + Omen are probably too strong also, but that's not the same issue at all. Or the math only suits arguments for raw damage, which isn't always what wins games. I mean, math says RoA is a pretty shit investment, but math deosn't give a fuck about health and mana and how catalyst effects your laning. I know appealing to authority is a logical fallacy but in this case I'm willing to do so: when was the last time you saw an AP mid in a professional game go Void second item? Void staff is hardly a problem, that thread seems entirely random to me. Of course it's not a 'niche' item buy because there's almost a 100% chance that someone in your game worth targeting has significant MR(scaling blues, any MR item), that's not 'imbalance' that's just how the game is played. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On September 13 2013 05:36 TheYango wrote: Admittedly red, it's pretty common to see players at all levels buy Deathcap when Void Staff would be the better damage item across the board. Please, Big numbers = better. It's about style points. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 13 2013 05:42 FinestHour wrote: ahris just fun as fuck to play besides that champ i probably only really enjoy playing draven and trynd Are you satan? | ||
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silencefc
United States875 Posts
Last Whipser and Voidstaff %Pen costs ~700g. For them to be "worth" the gold, your targets need ~60 armor or mpen. That is damn easy to hit by 2nd item timing. LW after BotRK or TriForce on AD's is awesome if the other team is buying Chain Vests and Seeker's Armguards. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
that's a consideration that's often overlooked in raw damage comparisons | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 13 2013 05:47 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: hat helps you clear waves better that's a consideration that's often overlooked in raw damage comparisons Unless you're really behind on timings, by the time you'd have DCap vs. Void, most mids should be able to clear with relative ease. At least, afaik. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On September 13 2013 05:11 Letmelose wrote: It's a top-heavy system where only most successful gets to make it, for every player that makes the headlines by earning thousands upon thousands through playing a video-game on television, there are hundreds out there that wasted their youth trying to make it in an industry that simply doesn't allow for a bright future for every involved. It's the same story for the vast majority of the people leaving home with almost nothing to go back on, in order to become the next Hollywood superstar. It's really tough out there for everyone, and really, while the lives for those who reached the top in the Korean e-Sports scene look pretty sweet, I could argue that compared to their actual proficiency at the game, the Korean players actually have a much bleeker prospect compared to the players in North America. The presence of the military service alone makes the choice of becoming a professional video-game player a much bigger gamble than someone who just took a year off college to try their luck in e-Sports. Seriously, there are problems out there for everyone, and while there certainly are aspects that makes things hard for the professional gamers in North America, it's not something that cannot be overcome. Seriously, the average joe living in North America has great opportunities to make it in almost any scene, not just video-gaming, and bemoaning the situation because North America doesn't necessary have the best opportunities available looks a little too defeatist in my eyes. It can be done, and sure it's an uphill battle (any battle where you're not already in an advantageous position to be honest), but people have overcome far steeper challenges. It can be done. But that is the point. The tradeoff to being a failed gamer in NA (America especially because our universities have not really caught on to the EU model where soccer/tennis players take off years of school starting at like 15/16) is much higher, and honestly the payoff for being a successful gamer is not really that high. On September 13 2013 05:35 red_ wrote: Or the math only suits arguments for raw damage, which isn't always what wins games. I mean, math says RoA is a pretty shit investment, but math deosn't give a fuck about health and mana and how catalyst effects your laning. I know appealing to authority is a logical fallacy but in this case I'm willing to do so: when was the last time you saw an AP mid in a professional game go Void second item? Void staff is hardly a problem, that thread seems entirely random to me. Of course it's not a 'niche' item buy because there's almost a 100% chance that someone in your game worth targeting has significant MR(scaling blues, any MR item), that's not 'imbalance' that's just how the game is played. I think the strength of Void Staff is also caused by the total lack of more Orianna/Lux-y mids who have moves (shields/heals) that scale with AP only, and not penetration. The last champion that has a move that scales strongly with AP only is Diana(30/60% AP self shield), then Viktor (26%), Riven (100% Bonus AD), Orianna (40% AP any ally). If they want AP to be more useful, they should make more utility mages (hint they should do this anyways). But they don't like heals, and seem to think shields are support-only (judging by the treatment of Lulu and Janna solo lanes, plus they hated Lux), so I don't know why they hate a thing they invented intentionally. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
Also, there are timings/builds where unless you finish a hat, you won't ever have enough AP to clear the minions in a single skill simply due to lack of AP. At this point, often times farming time is at a premium, because you'll need to get back to doing something useful, so having to stay and go through multiple rotations to clear minions is a liability. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On September 13 2013 05:49 jcarlsoniv wrote: Unless you're really behind on timings, by the time you'd have DCap vs. Void, most mids should be able to clear with relative ease. At least, afaik. It depends on the champion. For Lux if you don't get deathcap before void you can literally hit timings where your E gets caster minions to 1 HP. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 13 2013 05:55 Ketara wrote: It depends on the champion. For Lux if you don't get an early deathcap you can literally hit timings where your E gets caster minions to 1 HP. Then again, I may just be spoiled by Viktor's clear with augment :3 | ||
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