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I mean, I kinda agree with the OP there.
Void is a great item against high MR targets. However, it's also a great item against lower MR targets because of its high base damage.
The only thing that worries me about nerfing it is how strong SV is - but I expect that to take some hits as well.
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Yeah it's surprising that people think it's 'hard' to stack MR with the current iterations of SV, GA, and banshee's
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Watching Quantic play some normal games. The opposing team had a support lux that rushed vamp scepter before she ragequit. Up 10k gold at 11 mins. Funny times.
Edit: Pic lol
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IznPnQm.png)
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Good. Edit: The math was something like Voidstaff as your 2nd damage item is always the best (or close enough that with the assumption that someone will get MR it will be). That's silly, and LW is the same. Both are a core part of base damage builds and significantly negate the ability to build up some defense if you chose to go that route. They should be that counter, but there ought to be a noteworthy tradeoff in other situations.
SV being wildly OP is a different but at least as important issue.
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On September 13 2013 04:54 Diamond wrote:
Watching Quantic play some normal games. The opposing team had a support lux that rushed vamp scepter before she ragequit. Up 10k gold at 11 mins. Funny times.
How else would she have any sustain while auto harassing??
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On September 13 2013 04:30 cLutZ wrote:I was mostly talking about NA pros. Like does anyone know what happened to the old Broodwar Americans not named IdrA, Artosis, or Day[9]? Are they currently making bank at Sony because of their e-sports background, or, more likely, finally finishing an associates at age 28?
NA scene was amateurs so everyone just kept doing what they were doing and play a different game.
There were like 3 or 4 foreigners that ever played at the hightest level (and went to korea) and that was very early. Most of them play poker now i think.
Zyra support is like an ap carry bot, except she gets no farm, but who cares cause you're zyra so you do a billion damage anyway
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United States47024 Posts
I actually think it's fine to nerf LW/Void if it's accompanied with a corresponding adjustment of defensive itemization.
% pen is one of the major factors in multiplicative damage scaling, which drives the lategame farm distribution we have (tying into a ton of the systemic issues that have been discussed time and time again like jungle/support farm distribution or ranged/melee disparity). Unfortunately, it's also a necessity given the ease with which defensive items can be bought.
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it would be really funny if morello's "penetration math change" ends up being swapping the order of %pen and flat pen again.
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On September 13 2013 04:43 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 04:40 wei2coolman wrote:On September 13 2013 04:37 TheYango wrote:On September 13 2013 04:36 Alaric wrote:
I meant in the case where the duo against Kassadin tries to zone him the wave to deny him as much exp as possible, as opposed to pushing down his tower or diving him. If they're pushing he'll at least get the exp, which is what he wants, and his jungler can still come to help him if things look dicey. That's not a guarantee. If their jungler threatens the 3v1 dive, you pretty much have to GTFO and give up the entire 3 waves of XP because you have no outs against it at low levels. The jungler coming doesn't help that much because Kassadin's level 1 counter-fighting ability is insanely weak. Then you freeze lane at 2nd turret, and farm up afterwords. Assuming the 3v1 early turret is coming. Then you have to ask the question why you picked Kassadin in the first place if you have to skip the tempo-controlling phase of the game where he's strong to freeze a lane on 2nd tower and farm. Kassadin's teamfight is really not all that impressive before he has 1-2 major items. Typically swapped lanes lead to early objective fights on lower overall economy, which are awkward for Kassadin to participate in.
Wasn't the whole thing about Kass getting popular again was that he could do okay in 1v2 situation, cuz tears + roa was such a godly combo on him.
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On September 13 2013 04:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:I mean, I kinda agree with the OP there. Void is a great item against high MR targets. However, it's also a great item against lower MR targets because of its high base damage. The only thing that worries me about nerfing it is how strong SV is - but I expect that to take some hits as well.
Stacking armor and MR is already insanely good as it is... Considering how little damage adc's actually do to the typical randuins+thornmail+SV tanky bruiser, nerfing LW is going to be insane...
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wait what
why would they do that buying defensive stats is already cheap and easy as hell
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On September 13 2013 04:30 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 00:09 glzElectromaster wrote:On September 13 2013 00:00 JimmiC wrote:On September 12 2013 17:31 cLutZ wrote:On September 12 2013 15:47 TheLink wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There's a reason Jamaica doesn't have a world class bobsled team.
Korea's strength is the same as in any other sport. Existing infrastructure, talented coaches and a wider talent pool to draw from. Are the Europeans so good at soccer because all the other countries just don't really want to win the world cup? hell no. To answer your World Cup question: Yes. Simply put, Americans do not prioritize soccer. Look at every player who is in the NBA/NFL/NHL/MLB and imagine if that man started playing soccer at 4. These are a bunch of great athletes that don't play on our soccer teams. But it goes beyond that, because there are other American athletes that didn't make those major sports leagues, but tried, and dedicated themselves to those sports, but had talents that would have made them elite soccer players. So basically, the Americans that play for our soccer team represent the best athletes that come from the <1% of the population that properly engages in soccer training and competition (and that is so low because even the stuff we do, we mostly do half-ass when it comes to teaching soccer to kids under 15, and by then its too late). The same all applies to E-Sports. Koreans have an incredibly high % of getting young kids to experiment (in the right way) with competitive games, they have a good infrastructure for developing them, etc, because the culture cares. And on top of that, its EASIER to do in Korea. A Korean who fails at E-Sports is in a better position relative to his peers than an American who fails. Just look at the median incomes of KR University grads and NA University grads. Voyboy had to put off going to a really good school (I think Berkley or something about that good) to play LOL, and he is on the good side. Imagine some of the players from the old Meat Playground, or hell, even MRN's players. They had a 4 month job at a fairly good salary for a LOT of investment. On top of that, just judging from the outside, it looks like once a guy like imp retires, he can probably get a lot of credit on his University application for playing for Samsung. And when he graduates, get a job, because he was sponsored in what that culture considers a useful/real pursuit, by Samsung. It depends what field you are getting into. If it's a tech field with the popularity of LOL you will get some great attention and opportunities based on it. I have a highschool buddy who made it to the CFL (canadian football league) He was a back up O-line man and made 30-50k a year for his 4 year career. In university he had to miss a season due to ineligibility due to grades. So my point is he got bad grades. And wsa a no name player in a no name league. When he retired he instantly received a investment banking job playing a 120k salary. I with better grades and working for the time he was in the CFL would never get this opportunity. The same sort of thing will happen for these LOL pros when they head off to the "real" world depending on what they choose. Also most are young. Very few people do particularly productive stuff for at least a couple years in the 18-25 range. It's more about gaining life experiance and figureing out what to do. Which most still don't know at that time. Spending a couple years trying for LOL professionalism isn't gonna set you back in any "real" way when speaking in the long term. If Broodwar pros' lives after retirement are what the LoL pros will follow, it won't be that easy for everyone. Many of the more accomplished players returned to the scene by coaching or casting. Others went straight into military service, or get a job completely unrelated. Some actually got a job, some are still struggling. Lomo became a police officer, and I forget who (was it Backho?) became a Christian minister. Those are the oddballs. The only one that truly became successful in a field other than esports is probably Xellos, where he actually got a marketing position at CJ, which is pretty impressive as it is hard to get hired into a large corporation like them. Perhaps I missed someone else, but others aren't as lucky. Luxury being a wretched person he is got arrested. I know some other pro also got arrested for robbery. I was mostly talking about NA pros. Like does anyone know what happened to the old Broodwar Americans not named IdrA, Artosis, or Day[9]? Are they currently making bank at Sony because of their e-sports background, or, more likely, finally finishing an associates at age 28?
It's a top-heavy system where only most successful gets to make it, for every player that makes the headlines by earning thousands upon thousands through playing a video-game on television, there are hundreds out there that wasted their youth trying to make it in an industry that simply doesn't allow for a bright future for every involved. It's the same story for the vast majority of the people leaving home with almost nothing to go back on, in order to become the next Hollywood superstar.
It's really tough out there for everyone, and really, while the lives for those who reached the top in the Korean e-Sports scene look pretty sweet, I could argue that compared to their actual proficiency at the game, the Korean players actually have a much bleeker prospect compared to the players in North America. The presence of the military service alone makes the choice of becoming a professional video-game player a much bigger gamble than someone who just took a year off college to try their luck in e-Sports.
Seriously, there are problems out there for everyone, and while there certainly are aspects that makes things hard for the professional gamers in North America, it's not something that cannot be overcome. Seriously, the average joe living in North America has great opportunities to make it in almost any scene, not just video-gaming, and bemoaning the situation because North America doesn't necessary have the best opportunities available looks a little too defeatist in my eyes. It can be done, and sure it's an uphill battle (any battle where you're not already in an advantageous position to be honest), but people have overcome far steeper challenges. It can be done.
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On September 13 2013 05:08 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 04:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:I mean, I kinda agree with the OP there. Void is a great item against high MR targets. However, it's also a great item against lower MR targets because of its high base damage. The only thing that worries me about nerfing it is how strong SV is - but I expect that to take some hits as well. Stacking armor and MR is already insanely good as it is... Considering how little damage adc's actually do to the typical randuins+thornmail+SV tanky bruiser, nerfing LW is going to be insane...
Ideally, each item (aside from maybe boots) should be a thoughtful choice with multiple options of what to buy at certain timings.
LW and Void Staff for some champions falls into "buy as your 2nd item in all situations no matter what" territory.
Supposing that other items are adjusted to compensate, fixing that issue would be a good thing.
It didn't sound like an agreement of "Yeah lets cut LW's armor pen in the next patch with no other changes!" It sounded like a more general design agreement that would prompt them looking into it down the road.
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On September 13 2013 03:35 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 02:46 TheYango wrote:On September 13 2013 02:35 Shikyo wrote:
I feel like as she's very skill-based people probably should reconsider playing as her until around plat level, depending somewhat on the person. Since when has that ever stopped mediocre players with overinflated egos from playing a champ? Low elo Lee sins pls.
Some pre-gold Lee Sins can be quite effective. Do you not know of any good lower ELO Lee Sins? If so i pity you if you ever have the pleasureless experience of a low ELO ahri
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On September 13 2013 05:12 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 05:08 wei2coolman wrote:On September 13 2013 04:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:I mean, I kinda agree with the OP there. Void is a great item against high MR targets. However, it's also a great item against lower MR targets because of its high base damage. The only thing that worries me about nerfing it is how strong SV is - but I expect that to take some hits as well. Stacking armor and MR is already insanely good as it is... Considering how little damage adc's actually do to the typical randuins+thornmail+SV tanky bruiser, nerfing LW is going to be insane... Ideally, each item (aside from maybe boots) should be a thoughtful choice with multiple options of what to buy at certain timings. LW and Void Staff for some champions falls into "buy as your 2nd item in all situations no matter what" territory. Supposing that other items are adjusted to compensate, fixing that issue would be a good thing. It didn't sound like an agreement of "Yeah lets cut LW's armor pen in the next patch with no other changes!" It sounded like a more general design agreement that would prompt them looking into it down the road.
Shut up, Ketara. You have to be more narrow-minded.
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On September 13 2013 05:12 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 05:08 wei2coolman wrote:On September 13 2013 04:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:I mean, I kinda agree with the OP there. Void is a great item against high MR targets. However, it's also a great item against lower MR targets because of its high base damage. The only thing that worries me about nerfing it is how strong SV is - but I expect that to take some hits as well. Stacking armor and MR is already insanely good as it is... Considering how little damage adc's actually do to the typical randuins+thornmail+SV tanky bruiser, nerfing LW is going to be insane... Ideally, each item (aside from maybe boots) should be a thoughtful choice with multiple options of what to buy at certain timings. LW and Void Staff for some champions falls into "buy as your 2nd item in all situations no matter what" territory. Supposing that other items are adjusted to compensate, fixing that issue would be a good thing. It didn't sound like an agreement of "Yeah lets cut LW's armor pen in the next patch with no other changes!" It sounded like a more general design agreement that would prompt them looking into it down the road.
That was maybe true for LW on some champions, but Voidstaff wasn't quite nearly as obvious. There were plenty of other itemizations you'd want to aim for before Voidstaff. Usually DFG/Zhonya's/Chalice/DC/Morellos/Liandries/Abyssal/RoA/Seraphs, most AP carries want at least 2 of these items before getting Voidstaff, just due to sheer utility of them, outside of damage. LW 2nd is a maybe, considering which ADC's, but multplicative scaling from AS and Crit, usually reserved LW to 3rd item.
On September 13 2013 05:14 cruefix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 03:35 Fusilero wrote:On September 13 2013 02:46 TheYango wrote:On September 13 2013 02:35 Shikyo wrote:
I feel like as she's very skill-based people probably should reconsider playing as her until around plat level, depending somewhat on the person. Since when has that ever stopped mediocre players with overinflated egos from playing a champ? Low elo Lee sins pls. Some pre-gold Lee Sins can be quite effective. Do you not know of any good lower ELO Lee Sins? If so i pity you if you ever have the pleasureless experience of a low ELO ahri
If they're lower elo, it means they're shit no matter what, cuz they already don't have a good understanding of the game, much less the mechanical ability to play at that level.
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Now Quantic losing atm to a team of all sub-lvl 30 acct's. Good start.
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On September 13 2013 05:17 Diamond wrote:
Now Quantic losing atm to a team of all sub-lvl 30 acct's. Good start.
Woong having trouble without maphax? hue. or is Locodoco playing support?
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Anyone know how to resolve spectating through lolreplay? I only hear sound but get no video. My LoL client is minimized but can't be maximized.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On September 13 2013 05:14 cruefix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 03:35 Fusilero wrote:On September 13 2013 02:46 TheYango wrote:On September 13 2013 02:35 Shikyo wrote:
I feel like as she's very skill-based people probably should reconsider playing as her until around plat level, depending somewhat on the person. Since when has that ever stopped mediocre players with overinflated egos from playing a champ? Low elo Lee sins pls. Some pre-gold Lee Sins can be quite effective. Do you not know of any good lower ELO Lee Sins? If so i pity you if you ever have the pleasureless experience of a low ELO ahri
I wouldn't know any pleasure from low elo ahris seeing as they can't charm anything.
Seriously, I can twisted advance onto someone in the middle of nowhere and the stupid fucks will still miss. It's really quite remarkable.
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EPT
