EPT[Patch 3.10a: Worlds Balance] General Discussion - Page 58
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On August 26 2013 10:15 Ryuu314 wrote: I agree. Whenever I see people QQ about new champs or power creep it just bothers me. People don't seem to realize that champions rise and fall based on the metagame and newer champs are likely to be more suited to the current meta simply because they're designed with a more modern metagame in mind. Very few champions releases actually completely redefine the metagame. On top of that, some of the most problematic kits and champions in the history of LoL are really really fucking old. Shit like Nunu, Soraka, Sona, Urgot, Kassadin, Twisted Fate have all been metagame defining champions and they're all really goddam old. The only thing that annoys me is when champions get released, that have a mechanic that was on a champ that I liked to play (or watch), but that Riot then nerfed that champ because "toxic and unbalanceable". Zed, ZAC, Elise, and Kha6 are the perfect examples. Edit: I forgot Rengar, the king of them all when it comes to this. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On August 26 2013 10:27 cLutZ wrote: The only thing that annoys me is when champions get released, that have a mechanic that was on a champ that I liked to play (or watch), but that Riot then nerfed that champ because "toxic and unbalanceable". Zed, ZAC, Elise, and Kha6 are the perfect examples. Edit: I forgot Rengar, the king of them all when it comes to this. I'm a little confused... How do the champions that you mention have mechanics that were previously nerfed... | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On August 26 2013 10:33 Ryuu314 wrote: I'm a little confused... How do the champions that you mention have mechanics that were previously nerfed... Manaless + Sustain. Melle AD Assassins. Splitpushers not named shen (also shen). 6 skill 2 form characters. Strong targeted harass. Need I continue? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35091 Posts
On August 26 2013 09:39 Klonopin wrote: I watched dontmashme's stream last night, and he was playing lucian. He had a theorycrafter friend messaging him the runes and item build. Mashme was stomping dudes with lucian. I tried the build today and it works amazingly. All credit to OFGSaiph (mashme's friend) for this build: armor pen reds armor yellows mr blues 1 ad or 1 mana regen quint (saiph said he thought mana regen was better) 2 life steal quints The core: dorans blade bruta bt zerkers greaves finishing items (what you build depends on the enemy team, use common sense): zephyr (preferred) last whisper(if stacking armor) black cleaver (probably dont finish this right away) ie or another bt (last item, or get something defensive) with blue buff late game your dash is on a 6 sec cd, and ult is 30 sec. Imp uses 4 mp5 glyphs standard on all his pages. It seems to have caught on with a lot of other Korean ADs. Lucian's current mana issues are a bit exaggerated due to a bug with Q using double mana sometimes. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On August 26 2013 11:09 wei2coolman wrote: Not sure why zephyr as a lucian item... AS is nice but you're better off building pd or shiv. Lucian loves cdr attack speed ad and movespeed. guess what zephyr gives. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On August 26 2013 11:11 PrinceXizor wrote: Lucian loves cdr attack speed ad and movespeed. guess what zephyr gives. AS such a huge noob trap on him. I think you're overstating how strong his ulti is, or how well it scales with it. The strength of Lucian is the fact that he gets 2 full max speed attack after each spell usage. AS does not modify this. Crit, AD, and CDR are his main stats that'll offer him strong core damage. Zephyr simply sacks so much crit damage for some cdr that it's not ideal. Boots of lucidity with BC should offer enough cdr. On August 26 2013 11:24 Itsmedudeman wrote: Yeah, lucian doesn't benefit as much from crit as other ad's compared to the other stats. How so? I'd compare it to jayce's build, in which no AS is really necessary, due to how his W works for ranged form. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On August 26 2013 11:25 wei2coolman wrote: AS such a huge noob trap on him. I think you're overstating how strong his ulti is, or how well it scales with it. The strength of Lucian is the fact that he gets 2 full max speed attack after each spell usage. AS does not modify this. Crit, AD, and CDR are his main stats that'll offer him strong core damage. Zephyr simply sacks so much crit damage for some cdr that it's not ideal. Boots of lucidity with BC should offer enough cdr. You do know that he can't auto -> cast -> auto without enough attack speed right? which significantly lowers his burst damage. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On August 26 2013 11:24 Itsmedudeman wrote: Yeah, lucian doesn't benefit as much from crit as other ad's compared to the other stats. ... So you are advocating just not building crit chance at all? I'm sorry but that is just stupid. AD carries are strong because AS, AD, and Crit give you multiplicative damage; the more AS you have the more AD is worth, the more Crit is worth. The more AD you have the more AS is worth, the more Crit is worth. The more crit you have the more AD is worth, the more AS is worth. Advocating to just not get Crit is like advocating a melee champion not get any boots because you get Tenacity from ancient golem. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On August 26 2013 11:29 iCanada wrote: ... So you are advocating just not building crit chance at all? I'm sorry but that is just stupid. AD carries are strong because AS, AD, and Crit give you multiplicative damage; the more AS you have the more AD is worth, the more Crit is worth. The more AD you have the more AS is worth, the more Crit is worth. The more crit you have the more AD is worth, the more AS is worth. Advocating to just not get Crit is like advocating a melee champion not get any boots because you get Tenacity from ancient golem. If you focus on trying to get the super high end items for each of those stats you will essentially waste lucians power curve. at which point you are better off playing vayne trist varus twitch if you aren't building your items to fit the game and the champions strengths then you are doing it wrong. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On August 26 2013 11:27 PrinceXizor wrote: You do know that he can't auto -> cast -> auto without enough attack speed right? which significantly lowers his burst damage. Thats why I said pd and shiv are better choices simply because they offer a lot of crit chance and a nice bonus of AS. In this case the AS is a semi 2ndry stat for lucian. Edit: the problem is all the items you said could abuse midgame lucian timing is complete shit, and don't offer any timing better than something like BT PD or shiv BT. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On August 26 2013 11:32 wei2coolman wrote: Thats why I said pd and shiv are better choices simply because they offer a lot of crit chance and a nice bonus of AS. In this case the AS is a semi 2ndry stat for lucian. SO you want to buy PD and shiv solely for the crit chance with attack speed as a secondary stat? when you can get zephyr for tenacity ad movespeed and cdr with attack speed as a secondary stat? | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On August 26 2013 11:29 iCanada wrote: ... So you are advocating just not building crit chance at all? I'm sorry but that is just stupid. AD carries are strong because AS, AD, and Crit give you multiplicative damage; the more AS you have the more AD is worth, the more Crit is worth. The more AD you have the more AS is worth, the more Crit is worth. The more crit you have the more AD is worth, the more AS is worth. Advocating to just not get Crit is like advocating a melee champion not get any boots because you get Tenacity from ancient golem. There's this champion called ezreal whose best build by far is not building any crit whatsoever. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
PD offers a bunch more standing dps, and enough AS (same as Zephyr) that you can aa -> spell -> aa, normally (dunno how getting Ionian boots or Greaves plays into that), so unless the Tenacity makes such a huge difference in the comps or the AD+CDR makes up for the crit in ability damage, I'd say PD is stronger in most situations. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On August 26 2013 11:38 Itsmedudeman wrote: There's this champion called ezreal whose best build by far is not building any crit whatsoever. He scales with kiting potential, no other ADC scales with something alternative to crit. And let me remind you S2 ez built IE triforce and BT. Quite a bit of crit before. The nerf to his base AS was a nerf to his crit scaling too, making blue build more favorable. Also with new triforce I suspect we'll see some more 'traditional' ez again. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On August 26 2013 11:39 Alaric wrote: 25 AD, 5% MS, 10% CDR and Tenacity for 30% crit, considering that going from 0% to X% crit increases your autoattack damage by X% (capped at 100)? PD offers a bunch more standing dps, and enough AS (same as Zephyr) that you can aa -> spell -> aa, normally (dunno how getting Ionian boots or Greaves plays into that), so unless the Tenacity makes such a huge difference in the comps or the AD+CDR makes up for the crit in ability damage, I'd say PD is stronger in most situations. You also have to keep in mind that hard engaging without your 3 basic abilities up is essentially suicide as lucian. so CDR also helps reduce your downtime as an effective skirmisher. and assuming you have no bonus AD other than zephyr, zephyr is a 25% dps boost on your Piercing light (more bonus AD makes that % DPS boost increase). So in terms of DPS they are comparable for lucian. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
Also the same could be said of most champions... having all cds are crucial for all engagements.... | ||
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