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On August 26 2013 07:43 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:On August 26 2013 07:37 Slusher wrote:
all arguments aside I'm pretty sure we can all agree new Trundle is not an example of power creep, or even in the vicinity of being mention-able in the conversation of power creep.
even the people who like new Trundle in the last few pages admit it is at a maximum a minor buff. He's kind of a perfect example of it. because any of these other arguments are questionable because they are comparing two different champions. Trundle rework kept his playstyle and everything, just gave him a slight buff in everything about him except maybe the tenacity thing, but thats mostly questionable due to how invisible bonus healing/regen is as an effect. A general trend toward more and more powerful things is the definition of power creep. not to mention the rework happened because of general champion pool power creep as well. No, the rework happened because no one ever played him because he is boring to play. It had nothing to do with strength. Even right before the rework he was the best pokecomp jungler in the game.
Trundle's a pretty bad example of power creep, if only because it's even remotely debateable. A much better set of examples would be thresh vs other supports, Talon vs zed/k6, old mages vs newer mages, Morgana's waveclear vs every recent champion. There's boatloads of examples that are unarguable. Consider how many newer champs just don't have a meaningful weakness and are just good at everything.
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On August 26 2013 07:32 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 07:28 chinstrap wrote:On August 26 2013 06:36 PrinceXizor wrote:On August 26 2013 06:29 IMoperator wrote:
Man Diana and Zac are some of the most disgusting examples of power creep i've seen in a game lol. Any of Riots reworks of unused characters are pretty clear examples of power creep. Things like trundle, who was always pretty decent, but overshadowed by others who came after him, he then gets reworked into a essentially superman version of himself. Rather than going down the trundle rabit hole... Compare akali to diana. Diana is basically akali 2.0,does exactly the same but better in almost every way. I wouldn't call Diana better. Diana is tankier, but Akali has way more damage potential, and more jumps. Akali is pretty much full assassin.
Yeah, and Diana is full everything. Tanky assassin with strong utility for a team. Damage is probably the only thing Akali would even beat Diana out in, but Diana can forfeit that because she can jump into a team to initiate and be far tankier than Akali ever could be.
inb4 Akali is manaless. Diana having mana problems is laughable.
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Baa?21243 Posts
Diana also has much stronger AoE damage.
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On August 26 2013 07:43 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:On August 26 2013 07:37 Slusher wrote:
all arguments aside I'm pretty sure we can all agree new Trundle is not an example of power creep, or even in the vicinity of being mention-able in the conversation of power creep.
even the people who like new Trundle in the last few pages admit it is at a maximum a minor buff. He's kind of a perfect example of it. because any of these other arguments are questionable because they are comparing two different champions. Trundle rework kept his playstyle and everything, just gave him a slight buff in everything about him except maybe the tenacity thing, but thats mostly questionable due to how invisible bonus healing/regen is as an effect. A general trend toward more and more powerful things is the definition of power creep. not to mention the rework happened because of general champion pool power creep as well. No, the rework happened because no one ever played him because he is boring to play. It had nothing to do with strength. Even right before the rework he was the best pokecomp jungler in the game.
I don't think they remade him because no one played him, they remade him because his kit was a mismash of stuff that didn't really make any sense at all. They fixed that at the cost of removing tenacity on his w.
Stuff they fixed:
1. His q's animation speed. Given the buff on AD it gave, it makes sense to want to build attack speed. Except old Trundle's q had a slow animation speed and never sped up, ever. So if you built a significant amount of attack speed and used your q, you were actually significantly hindering your dps after a point.
2. His pillar didn't interrupt channeling despite physically displacing someone if casted directly on top of them.
3. His ult was a flat amount of damage, despite draining a % of resists. So you get this weird situation where you would want to use it on tanks, but the flat damage was awful against them. Now it does % health and % resists, so its ideal against tanks.
Overall his kit makes a lot more sense than it used to. I feel he's a fair bit stronger than he used to be, but that was probably the intention. Although it's sort of limited by the loss of tenacity.
Also PX, Trundle is like the anti-power creep champion. Unless you get hydra, he's hideously slow at clearing waves. That's one of his major weaknesses as a top laner. -_-
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So... did someone just not see/read my request from page 54? I can understand if it got lost in the current discussion. I'd just like to try and figure out one thing, so I'm going to copy+paste my post on page 54 back in the spoilers tag beneath this.
+ Show Spoiler +Is there a thread or place where I can upload a replay of a game I just played? I'd like to have someone else watch a replay and tell me where I messed up, specifically in the team fight situations. I know I need to work on my CS, but I attribute that more-so to still learning Lucian than anything else.
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i dont think we need to argue that riot is mainly releasing champs with a much wider kit and fewer weaknesses.
morgana is a pretty good example, in lane she was all about having OP waveclear while being unable to get ganked.
But now even assassins like zed and fizz have faster waveclear.
They dont release champs like poppy anymore that have 1 OP thing and not much else.
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Lower in the thread list. If you look for a site where to host your files, just look at where the requests in the thread are hosted I guess, never looked into it.
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Sweet, thanks. I asked about it mainly because I want someone else to see the game I played earlier today and ID where I went wrong, and what I can do to improve how I play so I can actually win some ranked matches, especially those that feel like they're winnable and/or even throughout the game.
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I've always felt that lately Riot has been releasing very simplistic champions to play for the most part. Zed is and always will be my prime example. Though to be fair, he has a decent skill cap with a very low skill floor. He can do some cool stuff with shadow, but he also promotes the gameplay of "smash face on keyboard-> win the game".
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On August 26 2013 08:23 Cloud9157 wrote:
I've always felt that lately Riot has been releasing very simplistic champions to play for the most part. Zed is and always will be my prime example. Though to be fair, he has a decent skill cap with a very low skill floor. He can do some cool stuff with shadow, but he also promotes the gameplay of "smash face on keyboard-> win the game".
If zed is a smash face on keyboard to win champ can you name one that isn't?I'd say he is one of the more complex champs in league.
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bad zed is hilariously useless idk that guy isnt that faceroll
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Who's talking shit about morgana i will fuk u up idk faded
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On August 26 2013 08:44 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Who's talking shit about morgana i will fuk u up idk faded
Winning as Morg Jungle. awww yus.
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Zed is completely faceroll. You can make great outplays and be high skill but you can also just sit there in lane instaclearing until 6 and then ult the first person you see on every CD and totally win games just like that.
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On August 26 2013 08:30 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 08:23 Cloud9157 wrote:
I've always felt that lately Riot has been releasing very simplistic champions to play for the most part. Zed is and always will be my prime example. Though to be fair, he has a decent skill cap with a very low skill floor. He can do some cool stuff with shadow, but he also promotes the gameplay of "smash face on keyboard-> win the game". If zed is a smash face on keyboard to win champ can you name one that isn't?I'd say he is one of the more complex champs in league.
I'd argue Lux isn't. Anyone that requires a skill shot or more to hit isn't really face roll. Yeah, once you get the one q off on a squishy after you have hat+morello's or something, then you smash the keyboard to finish them. Zed, while also having a skillshot, at the very least doesn't really have to worry about mana problems, and can just chip you down with shadow qs or normal qs.
Also, Anivia. Still arguably the hardest champ in the game to play perfectly.
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On August 26 2013 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 07:37 Slusher wrote:
all arguments aside I'm pretty sure we can all agree new Trundle is not an example of power creep, or even in the vicinity of being mention-able in the conversation of power creep.
even the people who like new Trundle in the last few pages admit it is at a maximum a minor buff. He's kind of a perfect example of it. because any of these other arguments are questionable because they are comparing two different champions. Trundle rework kept his playstyle and everything, just gave him a slight buff in everything about him except maybe the tenacity thing, but thats mostly questionable due to how invisible bonus healing/regen is as an effect. A general trend toward more and more powerful things is the definition of power creep. not to mention the rework happened because of general champion pool power creep as well.
I actually have to agree here.
Trundle was a pretty good champion for a long time but the advent of massive gapclosers on every champion forced him out of relevance (read: power creep), forcing a rework on Riot's part.
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I do disagree with the view that Riot is releasing simpler champions.
Lucian: Not simple
Aatrox: Pretty simple
Lissandra: Not simple
Zac: Not hard but not faceroll
Quinn: Quite tricky
Thresh: very complex
Nami: complex
Zed: can be total faceroll but has depth
Elise: Not simple
I mean if you compare that most recent slice to any other release chunk I think it would compare quite well in depth.
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On August 26 2013 08:59 sob3k wrote:
I do disagree with the view that Riot is releasing simpler champions.
Lucian: Not simple
Aatrox: Pretty simple
Lissandra: Not simple
Zac: Not hard but not faceroll
Quinn: Quite tricky
Thresh: very complex
Nami: complex
Zed: can be total faceroll but has depth
Elise: Not simple
I mean if you compare that most recent slice to any other release chunk I think it would compare quite well in depth.
I'd disagree with about half this list. mostly because a lot of them the depth or difficulty comes from the role they are in rather than actually having deep decisions to be made in game as you play (and no skillshots aren't deep)
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let's not confuse flexibility for depth, though.
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EPT
