EPTThe last few have been a refreshing change of pace though. I don't agree with Thresh being that complex myself, but he definitely does have some stuff that can be interesting to do, lantern ganks, push/pull mechanic.
[Patch 3.10a: Worlds Balance] General Discussion - Page 57
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
The last few have been a refreshing change of pace though. I don't agree with Thresh being that complex myself, but he definitely does have some stuff that can be interesting to do, lantern ganks, push/pull mechanic. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
It's like Lux, sure you see a bunch of cool highlight reels pop up sometimes, but she can be played like a wuss in lane and only ever push (or stand behind her tower and instaclear, with her ult as back-up to impact a lane before you get there yourself), and once she's farmed she can get away with only ever firing QEs on cd and follow-up if they hit. Anivia's hard to play perfectly but her defensive skill floor is very low too because of how easy it is to just drop her ult, or lock the entrance to your base with a wall on a side and the ult on the other, as long as you have blue buff (or for quite a long time if you start with a full mana pool). TF's a bit of the same, however his actual teamfighting and ult usage is trickier so although it's easy to just wuss out and farm on him (barring laning against Fizz, Zed and stuff obv.) it won't let him necessarily be effective later on. Anivia's tricky to use really well too, although her retarded base damage and ratios and the onus she puts on her enemy to punish her (and expose themselves to mistakes) pre-6 helps quite a bit. Lux on the other hand has this low skill floor and is relevant almost all game long. Makes her really boring to play against unless she's used by a really bad game who'll get snowballed on so hard he won't manage to keep relevance through farming. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
You can definitely tell a good zed from a godlike zed.Skill floor is irrelephant imo. | ||
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RagequitBM
Canada2270 Posts
I disagree with Nafta. You can see a good Shen from a bad Shen. You need to give certain champs more credit I think. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
they impress me. I hate champion complexity as a topic anyway, the game is clearly designed to be pick up and play, even when you compare for instance Scarra's shallow champion pool that he is willing to play in LCS games to his champion pool he plays in solo que, the difference isn't mind blowing, the vast majority of lol is game sense and decision making, it's why you see pros just play whatever is strongest on a given patch, as opposed to Froggen for instance continuing to play Anivia, a complex champion he has a mastery over. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On August 26 2013 09:33 Slusher wrote: so things like Shy shen taunting to block ace in the hole, and the fact that he runs ap/lvl blues because he trusts himself to shield on reaction and block more damage than mr blues don't impress you? they impress me. That is Depth. Not complexity. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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Badboyrune
Sweden2247 Posts
On August 26 2013 08:59 sob3k wrote: I do disagree with the view that Riot is releasing simpler champions. Lucian: Not simple Aatrox: Pretty simple Lissandra: Not simple Zac: Not hard but not faceroll Quinn: Quite tricky Thresh: very complex Nami: complex Zed: can be total faceroll but has depth Elise: Not simple I mean if you compare that most recent slice to any other release chunk I think it would compare quite well in depth. As a support I can perhaps agree that there's fair amount of complexity to threshs kit, but because of how bonkers his kit is its not really necessary to take advantage of the complexity. You throw out q, if it hits you move backwards for a bit, hit q again and then just mash face. Works just as well in lane as to initiate team fights. Sure you can do flashy stuff, but unless you are playing at a very high level its just not needed. As for nami I wouldnt consider her very complex. Sure q is tricky to land, but that doesn't make her complex. If w wasn't so mana inefficient it might be a cool spell, or if e wasn't just flat 3 with flat boost so that it doesn't matter if you cast it on yourself or someone else who can aa the target. The way it is now though is much like thresh, hit q -> go ham, except nami just don't have much additional depth to utilise even if you want. | ||
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Klonopin
95 Posts
All credit to OFGSaiph (mashme's friend) for this build: armor pen reds armor yellows mr blues 1 ad or 1 mana regen quint (saiph said he thought mana regen was better) 2 life steal quints The core: dorans blade bruta bt zerkers greaves finishing items (what you build depends on the enemy team, use common sense): zephyr (preferred) last whisper(if stacking armor) black cleaver (probably dont finish this right away) ie or another bt (last item, or get something defensive) with blue buff late game your dash is on a 6 sec cd, and ult is 30 sec. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
holy shit I'm not talking about complexity I'm talking about Nafta saying the difference between Diamond player A shen and Diamond player B shen are inconsequential even if player B has played 1000x more shen games. At least thats the impression I got from his post and judging by his response it is, he just does not agree. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
A lot of release champs are still relevant and a lot of new champs are too Of course in a game with 100+ champs and a constantly changing meta you're gonna have some champs that don't see play but that doesn't make them worse than new ones TF is still banned in like 90% of games, Karthus still played frequently, Ashe has been seeing a lot of play lately, Kassadin is permabanned, Janna/Malphite/Nasus/Trist/Twitch all see frequent play at pro levels as well as in solo q All of the champs I just mentioned were in the game ON RELEASE | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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seRapH
United States9808 Posts
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RagequitBM
Canada2270 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On August 26 2013 10:04 kongoline wrote: ok after like 20games with aatrox i still dont see what darien/wickd see in him, this champion is so average, maybe in pro where 1v2 is so common he shines but i fail to see any reason to pick him over something like zac,jayce or elise in soloQ, his laning is mediocre and in team fights he has the same problems as every other melee adc, even his late game isnt that strong i had multiple games where i got fed and i still lose skirmishes to people who are 1item behind I build him like Shen and have pretty good success He has a malphite ult on q and a revive passive with innate damage and sustain in his kit | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On August 26 2013 10:10 Alaric wrote: That's because Darien doesn't build him like Wickd does, he just tanks it up to the max then initiates, going all "hey guys, I just knocked-up two of you and am in the middle of team, will you blow everything on a ball of EHP that'll just resurrect anyway (maybe even twice, keke) or ignore me and let me hit your squishies?", while Wickd goes "hurr durr I've got BotRK I'm squishy but dangerous 1v1 because I've got so much sus- ah shit I just got 100-0'd without them blowing a single important cooldown". basically Darien in a nutshell lol | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On August 26 2013 09:42 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: What are you guys even arguing about A lot of release champs are still relevant and a lot of new champs are too Of course in a game with 100+ champs and a constantly changing meta you're gonna have some champs that don't see play but that doesn't make them worse than new ones TF is still banned in like 90% of games, Karthus still played frequently, Ashe has been seeing a lot of play lately, Kassadin is permabanned, Janna/Malphite/Nasus/Trist/Twitch all see frequent play at pro levels as well as in solo q All of the champs I just mentioned were in the game ON RELEASE I agree. Whenever I see people QQ about new champs or power creep it just bothers me. People don't seem to realize that champions rise and fall based on the metagame and newer champs are likely to be more suited to the current meta simply because they're designed with a more modern metagame in mind. Very few champions releases actually completely redefine the metagame. On top of that, some of the most problematic kits and champions in the history of LoL are really really fucking old. Shit like Nunu, Soraka, Sona, Urgot, Kassadin, Twisted Fate have all been metagame defining champions and they're all really goddam old. On August 26 2013 10:04 kongoline wrote: ok after like 20games with aatrox i still dont see what darien/wickd see in him, this champion is so average, maybe in pro where 1v2 is so common he shines but i fail to see any reason to pick him over something like zac,jayce or elise in soloQ, his laning is mediocre and in team fights he has the same problems as every other melee adc, even his late game isnt that strong i had multiple games where i got fed and i still lose skirmishes to people who are 1item behind EU scene loves Aatrox. The Asian scene has started to pick him up a bit, but not that much. NA completely ignores Aatrox. He seems to be strongest built tanky; Aatrox's W gives a lot of damage without really having to invest that much in damage items. He also has huge innate steroids with his passive and ult. Cc-wise he's also very strong with Q+E. | ||
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