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On August 26 2013 02:22 RouaF wrote:
Well the problem is not only the number of spots for each region but also the seeding, it doesn't make sense that the #1 NA/Garena goes directly to quarter finals but not the #1 EU. As for CLG/TSM/DIG they have players with huge ego which fans like so of course riot wants to protect them. Nobody cares about vulcun.
once again as has been said a 100 times before. EU doesnt get a bye because they finished last during All-stars.
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On August 26 2013 02:22 RouaF wrote:
Well the problem is not only the number of spots for each region but also the seeding, it doesn't make sense that the #1 NA/Garena goes directly to quarter finals but not the #1 EU. As for CLG/TSM/DIG they have players with huge ego which fans like so of course riot wants to protect them. Nobody cares about vulcun.
NA/Garena earned it by not coming last place in All-Stars.
Yes, EU losing to NA there had that effect.
EDIT: Ninja'd
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On August 26 2013 02:21 Slusher wrote:
Lets pretend for a moment that having CLG at worlds will draw more viewers than T1/WE/KTB, are these viewers who are supposedly only watching because their favorite team (CLG) is playing going to keep watching when their team gets knocked out of the tournament via blowout in every game?
tl;dr would this demo even be worth considering if it existed?(spoilers:it dosen't)
Extra viewers for half the event is still more revenue than no extra viewers. Again. Not saying I agree with it, not even saying that it will happen for a fact. Just saying why it makes sense from Riot's perspective.
And you seem to underestimate the amount of people not into 'e-sports' who still watch their favourite teams. I have a couple of friends who barely even know Korea plays LoL but who still want to see something like Dyrus pillow 2.0. I find it hard to believe they're the only ones. Much like in SC2, we can't forget that the people who only want to watch the best players play are a minority. We as TL'ers are a minority. The majority of players are casual fans, and casual fans are far more likely to watch for Krepo/Alex Ich /Dyrus/DoubleLift over what they see often see as 'faceless/unknown Koreans'.
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I think NA got 3 spots in consideration that World's was going to be hosted in LA. Ticket sales would be shit if no popular NA teams were in it.
On August 26 2013 02:27 Mikau wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 02:21 Slusher wrote:
Lets pretend for a moment that having CLG at worlds will draw more viewers than T1/WE/KTB, are these viewers who are supposedly only watching because their favorite team (CLG) is playing going to keep watching when their team gets knocked out of the tournament via blowout in every game?
tl;dr would this demo even be worth considering if it existed?(spoilers:it dosen't) Extra viewers for half the event is still more revenue than no extra viewers. Again. Not saying I agree with it, not even saying that it will happen for a fact. Just saying why it makes sense from Riot's perspective. And you seem to underestimate the amount of people not into 'e-sports' who still watch their favourite teams. I have a couple of friends who barely even know Korea plays LoL but who still want to see something like Dyrus pillow 2.0. I find it hard to believe they're the only ones. Much like in SC2, we can't forget that the people who only want to watch the best players play are a minority. We as TL'ers are a minority. The majority of players are casual fans, and casual fans are far more likely to watch for Krepo/Alex Ich /Dyrus/ DoubleLift over what they see often see as 'faceless/unknown Koreans'.
Whoa, you got an issue with the human highlight reel?
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I should clarify by saying the demo is non-existent I mean the idea of a demo of a teams fan base in this country being bigger than the demo of a teams fan base in an Asian country.
On August 26 2013 02:28 wei2coolman wrote:
I think NA got 3 spots in consideration that World's was going to be hosted in LA. Ticket sales would be shit if no popular NA teams were in it.
yes you are right, they might have taken 45 min to sell out instead.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 26 2013 02:26 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 02:22 RouaF wrote:
Well the problem is not only the number of spots for each region but also the seeding, it doesn't make sense that the #1 NA/Garena goes directly to quarter finals but not the #1 EU. As for CLG/TSM/DIG they have players with huge ego which fans like so of course riot wants to protect them. Nobody cares about vulcun. once again as has been said a 100 times before. EU doesnt get a bye because they finished last during All-stars.
Admittedly, I still think a bye is too big of an advantage for that.
Instead have a 16 team tournament where the night before the tournament you have an OSL-style group drawing. The "top 4" teams each are guaranteed to be in different groups, and each submit the 3 other teams they'd like in their groups. Ties are broken by the respective team, going in order from the highest ranked team in their region down to the lowest. If there's still a tie, it's decided by coinflip.
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On August 26 2013 02:24 RouaF wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 02:17 Cubu wrote:On August 26 2013 01:42 wei2coolman wrote:On August 26 2013 01:41 -Zoda- wrote:
I wonder why Tencent hasn't cried yet. Surprised tecent didn't just force Riot to give china 3 slots. they're a holding company, they're not in the esports business so it doesn't concern them. Tencent owns Riot Games. Tencent is a chinese company. Therefore Tencent would probably like more exposure for LoL in china.
That is not what a smart company does. Look at how badly activision defaced one of it's most valuable properties (diablo) with that attitude.
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I think I know where you are going with this but that's a little vague.
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On August 26 2013 02:28 wei2coolman wrote:I think NA got 3 spots in consideration that World's was going to be hosted in LA. Ticket sales would be shit if no popular NA teams were in it. Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 02:27 Mikau wrote:On August 26 2013 02:21 Slusher wrote:
Lets pretend for a moment that having CLG at worlds will draw more viewers than T1/WE/KTB, are these viewers who are supposedly only watching because their favorite team (CLG) is playing going to keep watching when their team gets knocked out of the tournament via blowout in every game?
tl;dr would this demo even be worth considering if it existed?(spoilers:it dosen't) Extra viewers for half the event is still more revenue than no extra viewers. Again. Not saying I agree with it, not even saying that it will happen for a fact. Just saying why it makes sense from Riot's perspective. And you seem to underestimate the amount of people not into 'e-sports' who still watch their favourite teams. I have a couple of friends who barely even know Korea plays LoL but who still want to see something like Dyrus pillow 2.0. I find it hard to believe they're the only ones. Much like in SC2, we can't forget that the people who only want to watch the best players play are a minority. We as TL'ers are a minority. The majority of players are casual fans, and casual fans are far more likely to watch for Krepo/Alex Ich /Dyrus/ DoubleLift over what they see often see as 'faceless/unknown Koreans'. Whoa, you got an issue with the human highlight reel?
I have a friend who is a major DL fan (best ADC world!, bla bla), so I sort of assumed he was popular. Personally I can't stand him.
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Well, as far as Alex Ich, and DL are concerned in that list you brought up, they're both world class players, so you can't just call them for people watching them cuz "they're popular". It's because they're actually good.
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They might be, but I don't think that's the main reason the casual playerbase likes them. In my experience, casual people watch certain players or team for storyline, their personality or other emotional attachments. Being good is just bonus.
People supporting (non top) teams/players in other sports do so for the same reason. They don't support teams because of skill but because of some emotional attachment to said team of player. Maybe they like their personality, or that team/player is from the same town/state/country as you, it doesn't really matter. You support them because you like them, regardless of whether they win or lose.
Also I don't think I'd consider DL world class anymore, though that is beside the point.
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On August 26 2013 02:29 Slusher wrote:I should clarify by saying the demo is non-existent I mean the idea of a demo of a teams fan base in this country being bigger than the demo of a teams fan base in an Asian country. Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 02:28 wei2coolman wrote:
I think NA got 3 spots in consideration that World's was going to be hosted in LA. Ticket sales would be shit if no popular NA teams were in it. yes you are right, they might have taken 45 min to sell out instead.
It's like the olympics, the hosting country gets slot in all events, whether or not the athlete qualified to be in it.
On August 26 2013 02:49 Mikau wrote:
They might be, but I don't think that's the main reason the casual playerbase likes them. In my experience, casual people watch certain players or team for storyline, their personality or other emotional attachments. Being good is just bonus.
People supporting (non top) teams/players in other sports do so for the same reason. They don't support teams because of skill but because of some emotional attachment to said team of player. Maybe they like their personality, or that team/player is from the same town/state/country as you, it doesn't really matter. You support them because you like them, regardless of whether they win or lose.
Also I don't think I'd consider DL world class anymore, though that is beside the point.
DL might not be piglet/imp status, but he's still one of the few NA players that holds his ground against international competition.
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On August 26 2013 02:55 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 02:29 Slusher wrote:I should clarify by saying the demo is non-existent I mean the idea of a demo of a teams fan base in this country being bigger than the demo of a teams fan base in an Asian country. On August 26 2013 02:28 wei2coolman wrote:
I think NA got 3 spots in consideration that World's was going to be hosted in LA. Ticket sales would be shit if no popular NA teams were in it. yes you are right, they might have taken 45 min to sell out instead. It's like the olympics, the hosting country gets slot in all events, whether or not the athlete qualified to be in it. Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 02:49 Mikau wrote:
They might be, but I don't think that's the main reason the casual playerbase likes them. In my experience, casual people watch certain players or team for storyline, their personality or other emotional attachments. Being good is just bonus.
People supporting (non top) teams/players in other sports do so for the same reason. They don't support teams because of skill but because of some emotional attachment to said team of player. Maybe they like their personality, or that team/player is from the same town/state/country as you, it doesn't really matter. You support them because you like them, regardless of whether they win or lose.
Also I don't think I'd consider DL world class anymore, though that is beside the point.
DL might not be piglet/imp status, but he's still one of the few NA players that holds his ground against international competition.
Thanks for ignoring the relevant part of my post and instead focus on the half-sentence about DL. I knew I shouldn't have added that part.
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On August 26 2013 02:32 TheYango wrote:
Admittedly, I still think a bye is too big of an advantage for that.
It probably is, but so is an extra slot for winning (if EU or NA won, we'd be seeing 4 teams from those regions: rather blasé if that happened), and giving All-Stars significance for regional representation/success in Worlds. I'm not entirely adverse to the concept of having inter-regional competitions affect number of seeds/byes a region gets going into Worlds (indeed, I'd like to see more of them), but it needs to be balanced against the number of starting seeds.
Going into S4, I'd like to see Riot reformat the tourney as a whole to account for global regional growth. Pro-LoL is, from what I hear, exploding in Brazil (not sure of Spanish Latin America), and I have no clue what's going on in Oceania. At the end of the day, Worlds ultimately needs to showcase teams from every region, and entertain/attract the attention of more casual viewers on top of being a competition.
Ideally, S4 should have more "All-Stars"-esque events, though with top teams instead of just All-star teams, with similar rewards (i.e., wild card slots/byes going into Worlds), while "base" seeding going into worlds should be more level (1-2 starting slots max for each region, instead of the 3 that NA/EU has started with). Also, the winner of S3 Worlds should be able to host the S4 Worlds (and probably get an extra slot, or a bye), though I've been hearing (unsubstantiated?) rumors that Riot will be hosting S4 Worlds in Korea.
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On August 26 2013 03:10 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 02:32 TheYango wrote:
Admittedly, I still think a bye is too big of an advantage for that. It probably is, but so is an extra slot for winning (if EU or NA won, we'd be seeing 4 teams from those regions: rather blasé if that happened), and giving All-Stars significance for regional representation/success in Worlds. I'm not entirely adverse to the concept of having inter-regional competitions affect number of seeds/byes a region gets going into Worlds (indeed, I'd like to see more of them), but it needs to be balanced against the number of starting seeds. Going into S4, I'd like to see Riot reformat the tourney as a whole to account for global regional growth. Pro-LoL is, from what I hear, exploding in Brazil (not sure of Spanish Latin America), and I have no clue what's going on in Oceania. At the end of the day, Worlds ultimately needs to showcase teams from every region, and entertain/attract the attention of more casual viewers on top of being a competition. Ideally, S4 should have more "All-Stars"-esque events, though with top teams instead of just All-star teams, with similar rewards, while "base" seeding going into worlds should be more level (1-2 starting slots max for each region, instead of the 3 that NA/EU has started with). Also, the winner of S3 Worlds should be able to host the S4 Worlds (and probably get an extra slot, or a bye).
Id be very careful with giving away slots or byes based on the winner of the last Worlds. Just look at the situation now, a lot of the teams who went to worlds aren't even going this time around. The scene is still to volatile for such rewards for past performance.
Other then that I agree with most of your ideas. Larger worldwide participation and more international events.
It sucks have no comparison between regions since the last Worlds (the all-stars doesn't really count since it wasn't even full teams)
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On August 26 2013 02:26 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 02:22 RouaF wrote:
Well the problem is not only the number of spots for each region but also the seeding, it doesn't make sense that the #1 NA/Garena goes directly to quarter finals but not the #1 EU. As for CLG/TSM/DIG they have players with huge ego which fans like so of course riot wants to protect them. Nobody cares about vulcun. once again as has been said a 100 times before. EU doesnt get a bye because they finished last during All-stars.
I know that lol, I even said it in one of my previous post. It's really stupid.
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On August 26 2013 03:07 Mikau wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 02:55 wei2coolman wrote:On August 26 2013 02:29 Slusher wrote:I should clarify by saying the demo is non-existent I mean the idea of a demo of a teams fan base in this country being bigger than the demo of a teams fan base in an Asian country. On August 26 2013 02:28 wei2coolman wrote:
I think NA got 3 spots in consideration that World's was going to be hosted in LA. Ticket sales would be shit if no popular NA teams were in it. yes you are right, they might have taken 45 min to sell out instead. It's like the olympics, the hosting country gets slot in all events, whether or not the athlete qualified to be in it. On August 26 2013 02:49 Mikau wrote:
They might be, but I don't think that's the main reason the casual playerbase likes them. In my experience, casual people watch certain players or team for storyline, their personality or other emotional attachments. Being good is just bonus.
People supporting (non top) teams/players in other sports do so for the same reason. They don't support teams because of skill but because of some emotional attachment to said team of player. Maybe they like their personality, or that team/player is from the same town/state/country as you, it doesn't really matter. You support them because you like them, regardless of whether they win or lose.
Also I don't think I'd consider DL world class anymore, though that is beside the point.
DL might not be piglet/imp status, but he's still one of the few NA players that holds his ground against international competition. Thanks for ignoring the relevant part of my post and instead focus on the half-sentence about DL. I knew I shouldn't have added that part.
Well I didn't really disagree with the top part, so no point in commentating on it.
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On August 26 2013 03:14 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 03:10 Lord Tolkien wrote:On August 26 2013 02:32 TheYango wrote:
Admittedly, I still think a bye is too big of an advantage for that. It probably is, but so is an extra slot for winning (if EU or NA won, we'd be seeing 4 teams from those regions: rather blasé if that happened), and giving All-Stars significance for regional representation/success in Worlds. I'm not entirely adverse to the concept of having inter-regional competitions affect number of seeds/byes a region gets going into Worlds (indeed, I'd like to see more of them), but it needs to be balanced against the number of starting seeds. Going into S4, I'd like to see Riot reformat the tourney as a whole to account for global regional growth. Pro-LoL is, from what I hear, exploding in Brazil (not sure of Spanish Latin America), and I have no clue what's going on in Oceania. At the end of the day, Worlds ultimately needs to showcase teams from every region, and entertain/attract the attention of more casual viewers on top of being a competition. Ideally, S4 should have more "All-Stars"-esque events, though with top teams instead of just All-star teams, with similar rewards, while "base" seeding going into worlds should be more level (1-2 starting slots max for each region, instead of the 3 that NA/EU has started with). Also, the winner of S3 Worlds should be able to host the S4 Worlds (and probably get an extra slot, or a bye). Id be very careful with giving away slots or byes based on the winner of the last Worlds. Just look at the situation now, a lot of the teams who went to worlds aren't even going this time around. The scene is still to volatile for such rewards for past performance. Other then that I agree with most of your ideas. Larger worldwide participation and more international events. It sucks have no comparison between regions since the last Worlds (the all-stars doesn't really count since it wasn't even full teams)
Ultimately, given how early the S3 Worlds' design was likely cemented (before All-Stars, certainly), it's a given that the newer emergent scenes such as Brazil are shafted, but there's not much they could've done besides give out more "wild card" slots like at Gamescom. As you say, the scene is certainly volatile.
Still, overall Riot's done a fairly decent job meshing together multiple regional circuits, and I look forward to the refinements and improvements they'll have next season. It's not WCS I guess? 
On August 26 2013 03:22 RouaF wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 02:26 Gorsameth wrote:On August 26 2013 02:22 RouaF wrote:
Well the problem is not only the number of spots for each region but also the seeding, it doesn't make sense that the #1 NA/Garena goes directly to quarter finals but not the #1 EU. As for CLG/TSM/DIG they have players with huge ego which fans like so of course riot wants to protect them. Nobody cares about vulcun. once again as has been said a 100 times before. EU doesnt get a bye because they finished last during All-stars. I know that lol, I even said it in one of my previous post. It's really stupid.
If NA/EU won Allstars, they would have 4 slots. That seems a tad worse.
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On August 26 2013 03:22 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 03:07 Mikau wrote:On August 26 2013 02:55 wei2coolman wrote:On August 26 2013 02:29 Slusher wrote:I should clarify by saying the demo is non-existent I mean the idea of a demo of a teams fan base in this country being bigger than the demo of a teams fan base in an Asian country. On August 26 2013 02:28 wei2coolman wrote:
I think NA got 3 spots in consideration that World's was going to be hosted in LA. Ticket sales would be shit if no popular NA teams were in it. yes you are right, they might have taken 45 min to sell out instead. It's like the olympics, the hosting country gets slot in all events, whether or not the athlete qualified to be in it. On August 26 2013 02:49 Mikau wrote:
They might be, but I don't think that's the main reason the casual playerbase likes them. In my experience, casual people watch certain players or team for storyline, their personality or other emotional attachments. Being good is just bonus.
People supporting (non top) teams/players in other sports do so for the same reason. They don't support teams because of skill but because of some emotional attachment to said team of player. Maybe they like their personality, or that team/player is from the same town/state/country as you, it doesn't really matter. You support them because you like them, regardless of whether they win or lose.
Also I don't think I'd consider DL world class anymore, though that is beside the point.
DL might not be piglet/imp status, but he's still one of the few NA players that holds his ground against international competition. Thanks for ignoring the relevant part of my post and instead focus on the half-sentence about DL. I knew I shouldn't have added that part. Well I didn't really disagree with the top part, so no point in commentating on it.
Fair enough. It seemed like we disagreed on something but guess not.
Maybe only on how good DL is. I just don't see it personally
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On August 26 2013 00:23 Ketara wrote:
I think scaling runes are dumb on supports because supports get levels the slowest on the team.
Scaling MR break even at I think level 9? Even if you do well you'll be level 9 when the enemy team is level 11.
I wouldn't use scaling MR unless the enemy lane is nearly 100% physical damage like Janna Cait or Janna Graves.
Also, what's the skill order for support Zyra? I am playing her for funsies and haven't done it in months.
EWQ for the first 3 levels then max R->-Q->E->W so then you actually deal damage.
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EPT
