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United States47024 Posts
On August 31 2013 04:09 ExoFun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2013 04:04 TheYango wrote:On August 31 2013 04:01 ExoFun wrote:So you need tourney's on a patch to have a good tourney? as i said earlier in the post the core value's of 3.10 have stayed the same. Only the negative effects that arnt intended are taken out in 3.10a. So easy to react to only a little part of my post  . I'm saying that to make any judgment about whether the patch affects the game for better or worst at the highest level of play, you have to see it played. It could be that the Triforce buffs rocket one or more Triforce users into being an even more degenerate presence than Zac was. It could be that the buffs don't affect Zac at all and he's still as degenerate as before. Maybe not, but I guarantee you your understanding of the game is not good enough to judge that with any amount of certainty without ever seeing a tournament game played on this patch. AND I guarantee nobody at Riot has that good of an understanding of the game either. Why else would they make a statement in patch 3.10a that they wanna balance for World Finals and make it a " A" type of patch? "Hey Summoners! With our focus on stability for patches leading up to the World Finals, we’ve decided to split our next update into a few parts in order to mitigate risk. As such, this patch is titled 3.10a due to the nature of its deploy (as it contains only balance and design changes)." It was pretty sure from feedback from the players that there was a needed change for Zac( esp EU side, but you can also see the KR games that Zac is stupidly OP esp 3.10). The TF change isnt really a that kind of big a change vs Zac (infinite sustain)
Oh I know they TRIED to make it a better patch for Worlds. Obviously Riot isn't going to intentionally fuck up the game before their big tournament.
But really, it's Riot for fuck's sake. There's no guarantees that they improved the game and certainly not by enough to be worth destabilizing the understanding of the game that every team in the world has going into the tournament.
Like seriously, how fucking naive do you need to be to think the game is more balanced and better off just because Riot said it is?
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On August 31 2013 04:09 ExoFun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2013 04:04 TheYango wrote:On August 31 2013 04:01 ExoFun wrote:So you need tourney's on a patch to have a good tourney? as i said earlier in the post the core value's of 3.10 have stayed the same. Only the negative effects that arnt intended are taken out in 3.10a. So easy to react to only a little part of my post . I'm saying that to make any judgment about whether the patch affects the game for better or worst at the highest level of play, you have to see it played. It could be that the Triforce buffs rocket one or more Triforce users into being an even more degenerate presence than Zac was. It could be that the buffs don't affect Zac at all and he's still as degenerate as before. Maybe not, but I guarantee you your understanding of the game is not good enough to judge that with any amount of certainty without ever seeing a tournament game played on this patch. AND I guarantee nobody at Riot has that good of an understanding of the game either. Why else would they make a statement in patch 3.10a that they wanna balance for World Finals and make it a " A" type of patch? "Hey Summoners! With our focus on stability for patches leading up to the World Finals, we’ve decided to split our next update into a few parts in order to mitigate risk. As such, this patch is titled 3.10a due to the nature of its deploy (as it contains only balance and design changes)." It was pretty sure from feedback from the players that there was a needed change for Zac( esp EU side, but you can also see the KR games that Zac is stupidly OP esp 3.10). The TF change isnt really a that kind of big a change vs Zac (infinite sustain)
You really think that fundamentally changing what Phage/Triforce does and buffing Triforce proc by 33% isn't a big change compared to a relatively small nerf to Zac's ability to sustain? Really?
Even if Zac was somehow made completely 100% balanced by this tweak, how is completely undermining one of the core aspects of the last month's of professional gameplay good for the biggest LoL tournament of the year when pro teams get only a month to come up with a replacement? The point of the tournament is to determine which pro team is the best in the world; you can't really expect to do that with any true validity if you're altering how the game is played right before the tourney.
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On August 31 2013 04:12 Caller wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Somebody Called in the Cavalry! First off, bad ideas should rightly be called bad ideas. This is the internet, you come on here with the assumption that you are just as equally worthless as every other person on the internet. And if you happen to be slightly below the bellcurve, it is a disservice to you and to society in general to not inform you of your wrongful actions, and how to guide you on the right path. Secondly, there's this thing we have in the world, called "earning your stripes." If you want to make any points, you need to do so through one of three ways: Being a known expertShowing (not telling) it to othersHaving dataSince most people have forgotten the ways of Caller, WRAWRAWRA, and other fallen legends of legumes, I evidently have to tell you that if you don't know what you're talking about, don't say it. Can you imagine a convention of scientists ever achieving anything if any 2-bit can make as long of a speech as an esteemed scientist? But saying only experienced people can contribute is wrong as well. Many experienced players are really bad. I know for certain: I was one of 'em. That's where the next point, Showing it to others, comes in. If you can't show (in game, in life, etc.) why your idea is awesome to other people, then you really need to consider both whether or not your idea was a good idea, and also how you intend to get anywhere in life. Even then, though, you don't need to physically do it. As long as you have data, and argue in the correct parameters that the data is useful in. GOOD: "Armor/level is good for late game because in late game, you get more armor than you would with flat runes" BAD: "Armor/level is good for late game because I have a big ego and think my ideas are better than anybody else's." GOOD: "Historically, European teams tend to be more cohesive than North American teams because they share a common culture, language, and timezone. Here's data that proves it. Exhibit A: HotshotGG." BAD: "Europeans are so much better than North Americans. I would know, I'm European." This has been a Public Service Announcement.
I don't think anyone here disagrees with Roffles calling anyone out, but rather the way he does it.
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On August 31 2013 04:12 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2013 04:09 ExoFun wrote:On August 31 2013 04:04 TheYango wrote:On August 31 2013 04:01 ExoFun wrote:So you need tourney's on a patch to have a good tourney? as i said earlier in the post the core value's of 3.10 have stayed the same. Only the negative effects that arnt intended are taken out in 3.10a. So easy to react to only a little part of my post . I'm saying that to make any judgment about whether the patch affects the game for better or worst at the highest level of play, you have to see it played. It could be that the Triforce buffs rocket one or more Triforce users into being an even more degenerate presence than Zac was. It could be that the buffs don't affect Zac at all and he's still as degenerate as before. Maybe not, but I guarantee you your understanding of the game is not good enough to judge that with any amount of certainty without ever seeing a tournament game played on this patch. AND I guarantee nobody at Riot has that good of an understanding of the game either. Why else would they make a statement in patch 3.10a that they wanna balance for World Finals and make it a " A" type of patch? "Hey Summoners! With our focus on stability for patches leading up to the World Finals, we’ve decided to split our next update into a few parts in order to mitigate risk. As such, this patch is titled 3.10a due to the nature of its deploy (as it contains only balance and design changes)." It was pretty sure from feedback from the players that there was a needed change for Zac( esp EU side, but you can also see the KR games that Zac is stupidly OP esp 3.10). The TF change isnt really a that kind of big a change vs Zac (infinite sustain) Oh I know they TRIED to make it a better patch for Worlds. Obviously Riot isn't going to intentionally fuck up the game before their big tournament. But really, it's Riot for fuck's sake. There's no guarantees that they improved the game and certainly not by enough to be worth destabilizing the understanding of the game that every team in the world has going into the tournament. Like seriously, how fucking naive do you need to be to think the game is more balanced and better off just because Riot said it is?
I dont go off on Riot, but more on Diamondprox. I think he is one of the most respectable players of understanding the game and very quick before they are known for the other junglers/players.
https://www.facebook.com/GambitDiamondprox/posts/414410638663237
"one of the core aspects of the last month's of professional gameplay" In my eyes they stayed the same, but they let trinity force become more viable for the (jax/ Irelia).
But i get your point and i hope you get mine.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
I think Roffles is hilarious as fuck
Not even Caller can make me laugh as hard as Roffles just shitstomping on people without any care
I would call it one of the 7 wonders of the internets
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When Caller emerges you listen.
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I thought Dyrus/Regi drama was bad, now we have Roffles drama? lol
On August 31 2013 04:04 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2013 04:01 ExoFun wrote:So you need tourney's on a patch to have a good tourney? as i said earlier in the post the core value's of 3.10 have stayed the same. Only the negative effects that arnt intended are taken out in 3.10a. So easy to react to only a little part of my post . I'm saying that to make any judgment about whether the patch affects the game for better or worst at the highest level of play, you have to see it played. It could be that the Triforce buffs rocket one or more Triforce users into being an even more degenerate presence than Zac was. It could be that the buffs don't affect Zac at all and he's still as degenerate as before. Maybe not, but I guarantee you your understanding of the game is not good enough to judge that with any amount of certainty without ever seeing a tournament game played on this patch. AND I guarantee nobody at Riot has that good of an understanding of the game either.
Although I agree with you in terms of patch cycles, this might not be the case for the 3.10 vs 3.10a.
This is in-line with some of DotA's patch cycle in that they release an initial version and then slightly tweak it in lettered patches. 6.78c was released a month after 6.78, which hit Treant pretty hard.
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Baa?21244 Posts
OK so I guess people are a little divided on the whole Roffles issue.
I think the best way to solve this is to render the issue a non-issue.
I propose we make Roffles a mod.
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United States47024 Posts
You misunderstand.
Yes, Zac is problematic in 3.10. What you've failed to show (and what nobody CAN show without a tournament game played on 3.10a) is that Riot's change to Zac is actually meaningful, that Riot hasn't created worse gameplay issues, and that on the whole this patch was a big enough benefit to the game to warrant destabilizing the knowledge base of every professional player in the game 3 weeks before Worlds.
On August 31 2013 04:19 kainzero wrote:
Although I agree with you in terms of patch cycles, this might not be the case for the 3.10 vs 3.10a.
This is in-line with some of DotA's patch cycle in that they release an initial version and then slightly tweak it in lettered patches. 6.78c was released a month after 6.78, which hit Treant pretty hard.
6.xx a-f versions are still treated as major versions insofar as timing in relation to major tournaments.
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On August 31 2013 04:20 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
OK so I guess people are a little divided on the whole Roffles issue.
I think the best way to solve this is to render the issue a non-issue.
I propose we make Roffles a mod.
Roffles for mod (again).
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On August 31 2013 04:17 ExoFun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2013 04:12 TheYango wrote:On August 31 2013 04:09 ExoFun wrote:On August 31 2013 04:04 TheYango wrote:On August 31 2013 04:01 ExoFun wrote:So you need tourney's on a patch to have a good tourney? as i said earlier in the post the core value's of 3.10 have stayed the same. Only the negative effects that arnt intended are taken out in 3.10a. So easy to react to only a little part of my post . I'm saying that to make any judgment about whether the patch affects the game for better or worst at the highest level of play, you have to see it played. It could be that the Triforce buffs rocket one or more Triforce users into being an even more degenerate presence than Zac was. It could be that the buffs don't affect Zac at all and he's still as degenerate as before. Maybe not, but I guarantee you your understanding of the game is not good enough to judge that with any amount of certainty without ever seeing a tournament game played on this patch. AND I guarantee nobody at Riot has that good of an understanding of the game either. Why else would they make a statement in patch 3.10a that they wanna balance for World Finals and make it a " A" type of patch? "Hey Summoners! With our focus on stability for patches leading up to the World Finals, we’ve decided to split our next update into a few parts in order to mitigate risk. As such, this patch is titled 3.10a due to the nature of its deploy (as it contains only balance and design changes)." It was pretty sure from feedback from the players that there was a needed change for Zac( esp EU side, but you can also see the KR games that Zac is stupidly OP esp 3.10). The TF change isnt really a that kind of big a change vs Zac (infinite sustain) Oh I know they TRIED to make it a better patch for Worlds. Obviously Riot isn't going to intentionally fuck up the game before their big tournament. But really, it's Riot for fuck's sake. There's no guarantees that they improved the game and certainly not by enough to be worth destabilizing the understanding of the game that every team in the world has going into the tournament. Like seriously, how fucking naive do you need to be to think the game is more balanced and better off just because Riot said it is? I dont go off on Riot, but more on Diamondprox. I think he is one of the most respectable players of understanding the game and very quick before they are known for the other junglers/players. https://www.facebook.com/GambitDiamondprox/posts/414410638663237
Unless I'm missing something, he doesn't say anything about the patch in that post... Yes, he mentions that Zac is OP, but we've known that for months.
It's not an issue of whether or not certain champions are OP, but whether the changes Riot made actually addresses the problem, or simply creates new ones.
Also, you're completely ignoring the fact that 3.10a made pretty significant changes to other champs. LB got significant stat buffs, Shen got W nerfed by over 10% and his ult can be more easily canceled, and Twitch got his E nerfed by up to 50% at early levels. This is also not mentioning the rather significant item changes too.
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Canada2068 Posts
Frankly I think that roffles is like the biggest raging tryhard on the face of the planet aside from argyton or whatever the hell his name is, and I think it's a good step forward for league progress for this sort of behavior to be punished. But he's being punished for the wrong reason, so I oppose it.
#freeroffles
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On August 31 2013 04:09 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2013 04:01 Ryuu314 wrote:On August 31 2013 04:00 onlywonderboy wrote:On August 31 2013 03:45 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On August 31 2013 00:23 Gahlo wrote:On August 30 2013 23:49 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On August 30 2013 22:45 AsnSensation wrote:On August 30 2013 22:16 The_Unseen wrote:
So Roffles basically has an immunity? Do you guys have the slightest idea of the impression his never-punished-streams-of-insults give to us lurkers and semi-lurkers? :/ from my experience with Roffles during the last 3 years in the KMD & Lol Subforum he never called out someone who doesn't deserve it and I always had the impression that the majority agreed his "victim's" posts were shitty most of the time. He is just more blunt and direct than others. ^pretty much this also roffles has done more for tl than 90% of this forum put together so he get leeway as per ten commandments policy it's really fucking dumb seeing roffles pretty much saying what most people are thinking and getting banned while other shit posters get to keep shit posting it should at least go two ways like last time when they both got banned zz It would be nice if 90% of his posts weren't drive by douchings. again, the people he calls out are always people whom we've tried reasoning with and it's obvious that has gotten nowhere roffles is never a dick to people for no reason, they always deserve it The post he got banned for had him calling PX's theorycrafting shit out of no where. Shutting him down is one thing but that was devolving to the point of random insults. Yea, I honestly think Roffle's banned post was kinda out of line. I'm all for calling people out harshly when they say/do stupid shit, but that was just random hate. it's to make up for all those time where PX said something dumb and didn't get called out cause people were too terrified of being banned or want to pretend to be nice or some shit huehue
does this logic really make sense in your head or are you just arguing because you're committed to defending roffles? all this "making up" and "deserving" shit you're spewing is dumb and makes you look like a child.
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On August 31 2013 04:27 chalice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2013 04:09 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On August 31 2013 04:01 Ryuu314 wrote:On August 31 2013 04:00 onlywonderboy wrote:On August 31 2013 03:45 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On August 31 2013 00:23 Gahlo wrote:On August 30 2013 23:49 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On August 30 2013 22:45 AsnSensation wrote:On August 30 2013 22:16 The_Unseen wrote:
So Roffles basically has an immunity? Do you guys have the slightest idea of the impression his never-punished-streams-of-insults give to us lurkers and semi-lurkers? :/ from my experience with Roffles during the last 3 years in the KMD & Lol Subforum he never called out someone who doesn't deserve it and I always had the impression that the majority agreed his "victim's" posts were shitty most of the time. He is just more blunt and direct than others. ^pretty much this also roffles has done more for tl than 90% of this forum put together so he get leeway as per ten commandments policy it's really fucking dumb seeing roffles pretty much saying what most people are thinking and getting banned while other shit posters get to keep shit posting it should at least go two ways like last time when they both got banned zz It would be nice if 90% of his posts weren't drive by douchings. again, the people he calls out are always people whom we've tried reasoning with and it's obvious that has gotten nowhere roffles is never a dick to people for no reason, they always deserve it The post he got banned for had him calling PX's theorycrafting shit out of no where. Shutting him down is one thing but that was devolving to the point of random insults. Yea, I honestly think Roffle's banned post was kinda out of line. I'm all for calling people out harshly when they say/do stupid shit, but that was just random hate. it's to make up for all those time where PX said something dumb and didn't get called out cause people were too terrified of being banned or want to pretend to be nice or some shit huehue does this logic really make sense in your head or are you just arguing because you're committed to defending roffles? all this "making up" and "deserving" shit you're spewing is dumb and makes you look like a child.
no need to be a dick, bro, cuz right now its a pot calling kettle, if ya know what i mean.
difference between being correct and being a dick. And unfortunately, you're the latter and not the former.
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On August 31 2013 04:20 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
OK so I guess people are a little divided on the whole Roffles issue.
I think the best way to solve this is to render the issue a non-issue.
I propose we make Roffles a mod.
We should simultaneously make him a mod while permabanning him from teamliquid.
He shall become the Phantom of the Forums.
If 3.10a didn't also make sweeping changes to phage/triforce, I could maybe understand people saying "this isn't going to cause massive gamebreaking issues right before worlds. Yeah, individual champions got altered, but Riot needs to realize that massive item changes (like a certain Spirit Visage buff in the not too distant past) can completely alter the game.
Riot SHOULD have left both the MR-itemization rework (locket bulwark SV banshee) and the Phage/Triforce rework until after worlds. They're huge changes, and they weren't pressing.
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United States37500 Posts
Stop talking about Roffles, period.
Roffles got banned by an admin, so it's not just a TL LoL issue here. We don't discuss bans, esp if it's done by my higher ups.
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On August 31 2013 04:38 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2013 04:20 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
OK so I guess people are a little divided on the whole Roffles issue.
I think the best way to solve this is to render the issue a non-issue.
I propose we make Roffles a mod. We should simultaneously make him a mod while permabanning him from teamliquid. He shall become the Phantom of the Forums. If 3.10a didn't also make sweeping changes to phage/triforce, I could maybe understand people saying "this isn't going to cause massive gamebreaking issues right before worlds. Yeah, individual champions got altered, but Riot needs to realize that massive item changes (like a certain Spirit Visage buff in the not too distant past) can completely alter the game. Riot SHOULD have left both the MR-itemization rework (locket bulwark SV banshee) and the Phage/Triforce rework until after worlds. They're huge changes, and they weren't pressing.
I think they wanted to give NA a chance at World's, so by changing the game, NA has sort of a chance of equal footing.
*Conspiracy hat*
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edited because of Neo's post
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On August 31 2013 04:13 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2013 04:09 ExoFun wrote:On August 31 2013 04:04 TheYango wrote:On August 31 2013 04:01 ExoFun wrote:So you need tourney's on a patch to have a good tourney? as i said earlier in the post the core value's of 3.10 have stayed the same. Only the negative effects that arnt intended are taken out in 3.10a. So easy to react to only a little part of my post . I'm saying that to make any judgment about whether the patch affects the game for better or worst at the highest level of play, you have to see it played. It could be that the Triforce buffs rocket one or more Triforce users into being an even more degenerate presence than Zac was. It could be that the buffs don't affect Zac at all and he's still as degenerate as before. Maybe not, but I guarantee you your understanding of the game is not good enough to judge that with any amount of certainty without ever seeing a tournament game played on this patch. AND I guarantee nobody at Riot has that good of an understanding of the game either. Why else would they make a statement in patch 3.10a that they wanna balance for World Finals and make it a " A" type of patch? "Hey Summoners! With our focus on stability for patches leading up to the World Finals, we’ve decided to split our next update into a few parts in order to mitigate risk. As such, this patch is titled 3.10a due to the nature of its deploy (as it contains only balance and design changes)." It was pretty sure from feedback from the players that there was a needed change for Zac( esp EU side, but you can also see the KR games that Zac is stupidly OP esp 3.10). The TF change isnt really a that kind of big a change vs Zac (infinite sustain) You really think that fundamentally changing what Phage/Triforce does and buffing Triforce proc by 33% isn't a big change compared to a relatively small nerf to Zac's ability to sustain? Really? Even if Zac was somehow made completely 100% balanced by this tweak, how is completely undermining one of the core aspects of the last month's of professional gameplay good for the biggest LoL tournament of the year when pro teams get only a month to come up with a replacement? The point of the tournament is to determine which pro team is the best in the world; you can't really expect to do that with any true validity if you're altering how the game is played right before the tourney.
It'll show us which pro team is best at adapting to changes! I mean, if riot isn't going to slow down their patch cycle that's actually a skill that actually matters in this game, right?
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Caller! <3
He graces us with his presence. Praise the Sun.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Flickr_-_The_U.S._Army_-_'cavalry_charge'.jpg)
