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On August 22 2013 02:30 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 02:19 upperbound wrote:
All joking aside, at first when conversation started in this direction I thought we were gonna hear about Lee or Jarvan or Annie support or something that has some upside and a prayer of a chance. Then we got Tryndamere and Warwick, and I facepalmed.
I do want to see xildarkz and PX talk about the merits of duo mid with Syndra, though. Even Syndra is a better support than literally everything PX has suggested.
On August 22 2013 01:29 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 01:23 Roffles wrote:
We're discussing it because great PrinceXizor brings up WW as a great candidate because of all the MAP VISION and TEAM ASPD BUFF and CROWD CONTROL that wolf brings as a support. I dunno. Syndra support in mid is a lot better. There's that huge stun range, slow, and strong base damage. Also tons of good buff control. Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 01:27 Roffles wrote:On August 22 2013 01:25 Ketara wrote:
PrinceXizor makes us all come together like a happy family. He's just like you. Martyrs himself when people tell him he's dumb as a brick. At least bricks help build stuff.
Of course I'm saying it jokingly, but yes, syndra better support than WW and Trynd.
On August 22 2013 02:41 remedium wrote:
I think Rengar is one of the best "let's hope our opponent's don't know how to play against this idiocy" supports. Huge gap closer, CC, heal, burst, pokemon, zoning and brush control...
LeBlanc is pretty good too. + Show Spoiler +
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On August 22 2013 02:39 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 02:33 sylverfyre wrote:On August 21 2013 18:59 PrinceXizor wrote:
If you want to play a character as support, the main things you need to look at are:
What do i gain from playing this character,
What is unique about this character,
What impact do i have on laning,
And finally, what can i do mid-late game with mostly health stacking.
Tryndamere, Amumu, Vi, Urgot, Ezreal, Galio, fiddle, lissandra, warwick all pass these four questions pretty damn well. But some of them require unusual play from your partner to be strong, similar to how Leona does. Making it difficult to use them in solo queue in addition to general trolling that you will receive for trying. Going back to your square one, you fail the very test you put forth in all counts except Fiddlesticks. Ultimately, no they don't pass your 4 questions. If you gain more in all of those categories from playing a normal support than you get from one of your special snowflake supports, then there is literally 0 reason to pick your special snowflake and you're just doing it to be a special snowflake. Remember there's an opportunity cost there as well. Ahem. Lissandra support is perfectly viable, especially if you're playing push composition so you can just "bounce" Q on minions, for huge ranged harass, everytime oppotunity arises. 
Maybe, just MAYBE Lissandra also can pass those tests. But I'd rather be Lulu because the kits are a little similar and Lulu's has more protection and utility than Lissandra. Liss Q is pretty short range without the minion bounce. If you're playing against a melee support I could see Liss being incredibly effective due to the amount of melee-hate in Liss' kit. (Janna competes here, but maybe you want a different ult or something?)
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On August 22 2013 02:16 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 02:15 Seuss wrote:On August 22 2013 02:09 wussleeQ wrote:
i don't get why we're even giving a silver theory crafter attention who isnt willing to prove any of his theories in game. People like arguing. More seriously, this is a forum that's willing to entertain crazy ideas. We like discovering the next OP jungler, the next OP item, or the next OP team composition before other people. You don't have to be Diamond to think of something novel. But you do need to vigorously and convincingly defend your idea, which may or may not involve testing it in game, dueling other TLers, or bringing it to TROLLS. SHAMELESS SELF ADVERTISING ALERT
:3
On August 22 2013 02:36 Scip wrote:
Yes, and we are taking the surest way of discovering the new OP. Proclaim everything to be OP -> new OP gets discovered -> quickly forget about all of our wrong guesses.
The good ol' Two_Down method of prognostication.
On August 22 2013 02:44 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 02:39 Jek wrote:On August 22 2013 02:33 sylverfyre wrote:On August 21 2013 18:59 PrinceXizor wrote:
If you want to play a character as support, the main things you need to look at are:
What do i gain from playing this character,
What is unique about this character,
What impact do i have on laning,
And finally, what can i do mid-late game with mostly health stacking.
Tryndamere, Amumu, Vi, Urgot, Ezreal, Galio, fiddle, lissandra, warwick all pass these four questions pretty damn well. But some of them require unusual play from your partner to be strong, similar to how Leona does. Making it difficult to use them in solo queue in addition to general trolling that you will receive for trying. Going back to your square one, you fail the very test you put forth in all counts except Fiddlesticks. Ultimately, no they don't pass your 4 questions. If you gain more in all of those categories from playing a normal support than you get from one of your special snowflake supports, then there is literally 0 reason to pick your special snowflake and you're just doing it to be a special snowflake. Remember there's an opportunity cost there as well. Ahem. Lissandra support is perfectly viable, especially if you're playing push composition so you can just "bounce" Q on minions, for huge ranged harass, everytime oppotunity arises. Maybe, just MAYBE Lissandra also can pass those tests. But I'd rather be Lulu because the kits are a little similar and Lulu's has more protection and utility than Lissandra. Liss Q is pretty short range without the minion bounce. If you're playing against a melee support I could see Liss being incredibly effective due to the amount of melee-hate in Liss' kit. (Janna competes here, but maybe you want a different ult or something?)
I think Lissandra is actually styled more after Thresh. What makes her scary is how potent her gank assist is. She's not as good as Thresh, but with Thresh constantly banned she seems like a half-decent substitute.
I'm a little concerned about her pre-6, but she seems at least as good as support Lux (essentially second tier instead of top tier).
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The saddest part to me of this whole WW support discussion is that similar arguments can be made for why WW sucks top or jungle or in general.
Poor wolfman.
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Just looked at this thread today, WW Support? Wat?
Edit: Who even came up with this insanity? And why?
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WW is in a better position to abuse his capabilities from jungle by farming neutral creeps and getting ganks so you're more likely to get your E up thanks to the help of the laners, and in top lane by laning against short ranged heroes or at least getting enough farm to bilgewater so you have some all-in potential with ult ignite bilgewater chase down with E and flash or ghost
either way, theres never anyone around to interrupt your ult and you can farm and level peacefull both of which ww needs a lot
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I think I have a different account for LoL support and logging into LoL normally... I don't know why they do this. Anyone? Or is this just another issue Riot has?
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WW was my first "main" champ. Makes me sad  He does ok but yeah, just overshadowed in general by other champs.
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On a positive note, he has an AOE CV, sort of. So there's that at least!
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On August 22 2013 02:41 remedium wrote:
I think Rengar is one of the best "let's hope our opponent's don't know how to play against this idiocy" supports. Huge gap closer, CC, heal, burst, pokemon, zoning and brush control...
LeBlanc is pretty good too.
Leblanc Support is legit regardless. Although I like support Annie better.
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Pretty sick, as Lee you can W right at the beginning of Kassadin jump and you will jump to his final location, Lee just got cooler ^^.
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Yo guys wasn't there some tool/website to check runes/masteries used in OGN/pro matches ?
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Are Hybrid Pen Marks really critical for Lulu?
I feel like Lulu's laning isn't as strong as Zyra/Nami. Zyra is my go-to support now.
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On August 22 2013 03:45 silencefc wrote:
Are Hybrid Pen Marks really critical for Lulu?
I feel like Lulu's laning isn't as strong as Zyra/Nami. Zyra is my go-to support now.
They're not super critical but they are pretty dang nice. AD or Armor marks can work fine though.
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On August 22 2013 03:45 silencefc wrote:
Are Hybrid Pen Marks really critical for Lulu?
I feel like Lulu's laning isn't as strong as Zyra/Nami. Zyra is my go-to support now.
Lulu's laning is strong because of pix. Her auto harass is really strong, plus pix-lockon creates a very hard to dodge slowcombo, shuts down aggression with W or uses it to chase when winning a fight. Later on her ult is obviously strong when used on an initiator, but it can also be used really effectively to shut down assassination combos because it CC's the assassin AND gives the assassination target a huge pile of extra health.
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lulus laning is kinda weak because she doenst have the mana to E Q a lot, Q and also her auto has a long animation time and is relatively easy to dodge, her autos arent enough by their own and its awkward to chain auto q auto for example
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Pix so often moves right to the side of the enemy's he's attached too right before you cast though, and suddenly Glitterlance goes in the totally wrong direction. ;_;
Fking little prankster.
^ you can bully super hard with her in the early levels, but you spend so much mana that if you don't start with pots (or flask, but charm won't cut it at all) you'll be oom around level 4 and thus useless until your first back. If your AD follows, having W at level 3 can be nice but at the level I'm playing at I could count these on one hand, so I tend to upgrade Q at level 3 to bully harder.
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So Lucian is coming out I guess today/tomorrow?
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Dropping in to say been watching some laoching fpvods on youtube as well as old OGN games, both entertaining as usual. NA LCS looks boring but nice to see C9 doing so well. I'm rooting strongly for Curse to crash out of LCS. Saint's the kind of jungler who loves making those 40/60 calls that throw games, not that I think it's his fault since I haven't been watching.
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On August 22 2013 04:03 Slayer91 wrote:
lulus laning is kinda weak because she doenst have the mana to E Q a lot, Q and also her auto has a long animation time and is relatively easy to dodge, her autos arent enough by their own and its awkward to chain auto q auto for example
i thought the point of lulu support was to shield your carry and let them do the damage for you?
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EPT
