EPT[Patch 3.10: Yimake Patch] General Discussion - Page 326
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On August 22 2013 01:25 Ketara wrote: PrinceXizor makes us all come together like a happy family. He's just like you. Martyrs himself when people tell him he's dumb as a brick. User was warned for this post | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On August 22 2013 01:23 Roffles wrote: We're discussing it because great PrinceXizor brings up WW as a great candidate because of all the MAP VISION and TEAM ASPD BUFF and CROWD CONTROL that wolf brings as a support. I dunno. Syndra support in mid is a lot better. There's that huge stun range, slow, and strong base damage. Also tons of good buff control. On August 22 2013 01:27 Roffles wrote: He's just like you. Martyrs himself when people tell him he's dumb as a brick. At least bricks help build stuff. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23342 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On August 22 2013 01:31 Slayer91 wrote: roffles is like tlgd batman He's fully assumed the vacancy left by bly when it comes to "real talk." | ||
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
On August 22 2013 01:20 Slayer91 wrote: ww is a complete deadweight at every point in the lane except for when his ults up and any support with cc can break it why is this even a discussion sona/taric/leona all have better 6 burst than ww anyway once the game goes further than 15 minutes, they dont even need to use cc to break the ult, they can just kill him. Basically the logic behind WW support viability is "he's so fking useless that the enemy team will not use anything on him so he can get full ultis and auto people to death while they stand still" and "if you pick an ad carry that can 1v2 the lane WW support is viable". Or at least that's what I get from PX's explanations. Unlike BW forums, LoL do not ban for saying dumb stuff and pretend it's good. So the least you can do is be ready to defend your claims when people call you out on them. PX is actually very civilized and defends his claims, this makes it easy for people to discuss them, but since the shit he puts forward is not good, everyone has the same stance, therefore making it look like a gangbang. People get a bit irritated tho cause he backs his claims with flawed theorycraft but doesn't have the balls to take it to the game. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
If I just spewed out terrible ideas constantly then eventually one of them will end up being not actually terrible for all the wrong reasons and then I will look so good. Elisia's Miracle is the best item in the game and broken OP. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23342 Posts
On August 22 2013 01:32 onlywonderboy wrote: He's fully assumed the vacancy left by bly when it comes to "real talk." bly posted a lot of rubbish as well though | ||
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On August 22 2013 01:31 Slayer91 wrote: roffles is like tlgd batman He's the hero we deserve, but not the one we need right now. + Show Spoiler + except apparently we do. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On August 22 2013 01:18 Alaric wrote: Infinite Duress actually has a very short cooldown (90 to 70s) and can easily abuse standard cooldown ultimates: in top lane Ragnarok removes suppressions but has a longer cd so WW can somewhat easily abuse Olaf for example, in bot lane it's comparable to Leona ulting against a Sona lane knowing Crescendo will cancel this trade but won't be available the next time Solar Flare comes up. However, WW has no means at all to force trades. All he can do is run at people and Q them, which burns his mana pool very fast. Sure his autoattacks aren't too shabby (Blitz and Alistar have close base AD but his passive keeps him ahead) but he has to reach people to use them, and to keep up with them, making boots very important on him asap. Considering he doesn't have gap closers (hard or MS buffs) the tiniest slow or creep block is devastating to him, sticking his head to take a beating from ranged champs. Basically, PX seems (personal interpretation) to suggest that you should pick him with a long range/pokey marksman to do the work in lane by himself, playing passive/having the marksman shove until he hits 6 or an AD-oriented jungler comes to gank. A bit like how Soraka+Graves was about allowing Graves to shove the lane and harass people with Q spam, except Soraka actually helped Graves. However, to me it also means you basically surrender the entire laning phase by going for a farm fest at best, until level 6 where you can try all-ins and ganks setup on a low cooldown with a reliable cc (although against the low cd of Thresh's Flail it looks like a pretty inane idea to me). The ult is good for pick-ups during roaming phase because of its cd and how it works and people still aren't too rich. However, you are less likely to win lane unless you snowball at level 6, and you are straight-up useless if you get shoved to tower (esp. if paired with Ezreal), I don't really expect the ability to take the enemy tower first and roam from the WW lane as the standard outcome. You also have nothing to defend from ganks, unless the enemy jungler is dumb and comes with less than half-HP (and you'll burst him down anyway when that happens unless it's Zac or Sej or Amumu). As for the "don't cc him" claims, considering how useless WW is without his ult, it's not about cc-ing his ult and outtrading the enemy. Sure, if his AD is reactive you'll lose the trade. However, cc him, disengage (Flay him then run away with W to reduce the poke from his AD; Bubble him then use your passive's MS and maybe the slow from E to run away; Taric is bad now so it's nothing new but he doesn't care because he has sustain to make up for your damage), wait your cooldowns to come back up/heal some, and then WW has nothing but an AS buff (which can be negated by hard cc on the marksman during its duration). He also has the same weakness as Leona that he needs to get in so he's open to being baited while the jungler waits nearby, 'cept even Leona disengages better than him (W survivability, ranged ult, and Q to gain a bit of ground). Really, I could see it work somewhat with Cait/Varus using Infinite Duress to chain cc and force a longer trade (and Varus maxing Q could have the burst to take down a squishy) but barring that there's nothing wrong with cc-ing WW, disengaging then wrecking your duo. with a long range carry like varus or cait, they aren't dependent on a large amount of space bought by their supports, the way vayne would be for instance. which means you can put your Warwick in a somewhat forward position to be covered by the carry. Warwicks AS boost is essentially equivalent to nunu's with regards to pushing a tower down quickly, but better than nunu's during ganks/being ganked. Warwick attacking and retreating simultaneously during a gank is incredibly powerful, and the enemy team deciding to go for warwick instead of the carry allows you to deal quite a bit of damage. But lets be honest about being ganked. if you are warding properly, and you are ganked without your jungler nearby to counter gank, its kind of a play issue rather than a matchup issue. Warwick excels at drawn out fights, his passive and his Blood Scent ensure this, There is little the enemy can do against long range carry + warwick just walking up and auto attacking early on except attempt to outdo them in burst and retreat. lulu and sona have the ability to win these sort of early trades, while the other supports don't. you aren't surrendering your laning phase, its just played differently. Instead of just spamming your crap at the enemy you are focused on controlling space. Its the difference between playing dhalsim and guile. both are trying to control the area in front of them and prevent the enemy from fighting how they want to. but guile does it by throwing out timed sonic booms and flash kicks in response to enemy movements while Dhalsim attempts to bully his way into control of the space. Warwick is powerful enough that if a team attempts to engage him and his carry without using cc (presumably saving it to stop his ultimate) warwick should win those fights and be able to heal up more afterwards. in counter gank scenerios warwick is very effective as he will be fairly high health due to his passive and Q and he will be dealing quite a bit of damage by the time the cavalry arrives. he can then turn the tides with a single hunters call. he's not bad against ganks unless its a gank you set yourself up to receive. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Especially with your scaling runes that you take in lane. How do you win? Do you play in Copper 5 with Alaric? | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On August 22 2013 01:45 Roffles wrote: Wolf with no farm does jack shit. Wolf with farm does jack shit. What do you not understand? Wolf is shit. You're relegating your AD carry to playing like a pansy in lane because you can't do jack shit in lane. How is Wolf's AS boost better than Nunu's Blood Boil? Last I checked, one gave MS and AS. Last I checked, one had a slow, the other had jack shit. Especially with your scaling runes that you take in lane. How do you win? Do you play in Copper 5 with Alaric? + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.blogcdn.com/www.slashfood.com/media/2008/06/frito-and-ruffles.jpg) Calm down sir. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Oh right, he's out theorycrafting more bullshit such as Ohmwrecker best item in the game. You sir are a fucking genius. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Which means I will never ever ever try to poke him or burst him and disengage. You can't vouch for WW simply by saying "he does a lot of damage in longs fights", because lanes won't allow you long fights (especially if they're both ranged—they can kite too, you know? And you have no slows to prevent them from doing so) and you won't be able to sustain their poke off of a level 1 Q past the fist few levels. You gain around 60 HP using it on a creep, that's around an autoattack. You Q a creep? I auto you twice, you lost 50 mana. I'm ranged. o/ Also EUW still borked, tower aggro borked too it seems. Edit: yeah it's not even freezes, it's full-on lag for me, like I click away then Flash, it first flashes then... walks back in before it didn't take the move command into account. Fuck EUW. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On August 22 2013 01:54 Roffles wrote: Only thing I'm salty about is that you're a pansy and won't defend your ideas by "physically showing" us. TLGD is waiting on the match of the century to happen. Where is our hero PrinceXizor at? Oh right, he's out theorycrafting more bullshit such as Ohmwrecker best item in the game. You sir are a fucking genius. Ruffles plz. too salty. | ||
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
On August 22 2013 01:34 AsmodeusXI wrote: He's the hero we deserve, but not the one we need right now. + Show Spoiler + except apparently we do. I feel like roffles is like the reverse batman: the hero we need right now, but not the hero we deserve | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
I think there are worse things that can be going on in a forum than people discussing why ideas are bad, however silly the source is. | ||
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