On August 22 2013 05:05 Mikau wrote: I can't believe Zyra isn't seeing more play. She's like a safe Leona. Has brush control, can zone, and can harass from a safe distance. And her all in doesn't demand you commit nearly as much as Leona's, while only being marginally weaker. Oh and stranglethorns is the shiet.
C9 been playing zyra a fuckkkton. dunno what you talking about "seeing more play".
I probably should have specified I wasn't talking about LCS specifically, but more about my own games.
Not only that, but competetively (C9 and whenever one of the other team decides to copy them) she only gets played with Twitch or Ashe. I don't see why she isn't more of a 'stick this with pretty much any team comp' support, like Sona, Thresh and Nami seem to be.
Zyra can get caught out pretty hard, every time I play her, I feel more vulnerable to getting caught out than any other support.
I can see how Nami would be safer, but I don't see how she would be more vulnerable than Sona or Lulu. Not trying to argue by the way, I'm legitimately curious why you feel that way, and what I'm missing here.
I feel like Zyra, outside of the awesome Ult, is basically just Roots+Plants. Roots and Plants are awesome. But sometimes you want something besides roots and plants.
On August 22 2013 05:05 Mikau wrote: I can't believe Zyra isn't seeing more play. She's like a safe Leona. Has brush control, can zone, and can harass from a safe distance. And her all in doesn't demand you commit nearly as much as Leona's, while only being marginally weaker. Oh and stranglethorns is the shiet.
C9 been playing zyra a fuckkkton. dunno what you talking about "seeing more play".
I probably should have specified I wasn't talking about LCS specifically, but more about my own games.
Not only that, but competetively (C9 and whenever one of the other team decides to copy them) she only gets played with Twitch or Ashe. I don't see why she isn't more of a 'stick this with pretty much any team comp' support, like Sona, Thresh and Nami seem to be.
Zyra can get caught out pretty hard, every time I play her, I feel more vulnerable to getting caught out than any other support.
I can see how Nami would be safer, but I don't see how she would be more vulnerable than Sona or Lulu. Not trying to argue by the way, I'm legitimately curious why you feel that way, and what I'm missing here.
I feel like Zyra, outside of the awesome Ult, is basically just Roots+Plants. Roots and Plants are awesome. But sometimes you want something besides roots and plants.
Yes, and Leona is just some stuns. Talking like that you can pretty much devalue every champion's skillset.
On August 22 2013 05:05 Mikau wrote: I can't believe Zyra isn't seeing more play. She's like a safe Leona. Has brush control, can zone, and can harass from a safe distance. And her all in doesn't demand you commit nearly as much as Leona's, while only being marginally weaker. Oh and stranglethorns is the shiet.
C9 been playing zyra a fuckkkton. dunno what you talking about "seeing more play".
I probably should have specified I wasn't talking about LCS specifically, but more about my own games.
Not only that, but competetively (C9 and whenever one of the other team decides to copy them) she only gets played with Twitch or Ashe. I don't see why she isn't more of a 'stick this with pretty much any team comp' support, like Sona, Thresh and Nami seem to be.
Zyra can get caught out pretty hard, every time I play her, I feel more vulnerable to getting caught out than any other support.
I can see how Nami would be safer, but I don't see how she would be more vulnerable than Sona or Lulu. Not trying to argue by the way, I'm legitimately curious why you feel that way, and what I'm missing here.
Lulu's Q, polymorph, + ulti makes it very hard to get caught. Sona has her E, not to mention her W keeps her very tanky, also her ulti is an awesome disengage. Zyra has a root, but that alone isn't enough, especially if opponents flank from an angle.
Ok fair enough, I was thinking not taking ults into account. I guess Zyra's ult, while great disengage, is probably not as good (and too slow) when you get caught.
Without ults though, I still don't really see it. Sona is still squishy as hell even with W, and E won't do much against (hard) cc. In my experience I usually do get away from ganks better as Lulu, with the shield, poly/speedboost (depending on situation) and the amazing glitterlance slow. Still, none of that matters too much when against cc. Though Zyra is no better in that regard, ofcourse.
I see you subscribed to the view that flash is a crutch so you should waste it as soon as possible trying to dive tower. Haven't heard anything from bot lane except that hilarious ww zoning at level 1(face check into brush, and enemy too afraid to do anything)
On August 22 2013 05:05 Mikau wrote: I can't believe Zyra isn't seeing more play. She's like a safe Leona. Has brush control, can zone, and can harass from a safe distance. And her all in doesn't demand you commit nearly as much as Leona's, while only being marginally weaker. Oh and stranglethorns is the shiet.
C9 been playing zyra a fuckkkton. dunno what you talking about "seeing more play".
I probably should have specified I wasn't talking about LCS specifically, but more about my own games.
Not only that, but competetively (C9 and whenever one of the other team decides to copy them) she only gets played with Twitch or Ashe. I don't see why she isn't more of a 'stick this with pretty much any team comp' support, like Sona, Thresh and Nami seem to be.
Zyra can get caught out pretty hard, every time I play her, I feel more vulnerable to getting caught out than any other support.
I can see how Nami would be safer, but I don't see how she would be more vulnerable than Sona or Lulu. Not trying to argue by the way, I'm legitimately curious why you feel that way, and what I'm missing here.
I feel like Zyra, outside of the awesome Ult, is basically just Roots+Plants. Roots and Plants are awesome. But sometimes you want something besides roots and plants.
Yes, and Leona is just some stuns. Talking like that you can pretty much devalue every champion's skillset.
Just meant that her set does a certain subset of supporting very well, but is basically confined to that one part. You wouldn't pick Leona for a Poke comp or Poke lane.
On August 22 2013 05:05 Mikau wrote: I can't believe Zyra isn't seeing more play. She's like a safe Leona. Has brush control, can zone, and can harass from a safe distance. And her all in doesn't demand you commit nearly as much as Leona's, while only being marginally weaker. Oh and stranglethorns is the shiet.
C9 been playing zyra a fuckkkton. dunno what you talking about "seeing more play".
I probably should have specified I wasn't talking about LCS specifically, but more about my own games.
Not only that, but competetively (C9 and whenever one of the other team decides to copy them) she only gets played with Twitch or Ashe. I don't see why she isn't more of a 'stick this with pretty much any team comp' support, like Sona, Thresh and Nami seem to be.
Zyra can get caught out pretty hard, every time I play her, I feel more vulnerable to getting caught out than any other support.
I can see how Nami would be safer, but I don't see how she would be more vulnerable than Sona or Lulu. Not trying to argue by the way, I'm legitimately curious why you feel that way, and what I'm missing here.
I feel like Zyra, outside of the awesome Ult, is basically just Roots+Plants. Roots and Plants are awesome. But sometimes you want something besides roots and plants.
Yes, and Leona is just some stuns. Talking like that you can pretty much devalue every champion's skillset.
Just meant that her set does a certain subset of supporting very well, but is basically confined to that one part. You wouldn't pick Leona for a Poke comp or Poke lane.
Not disagreeing there. I can see how Nami or Lulu or Sona are much more jacks of all trades in terms of skillsets. I also think at least Nami and Lulu leave far more room to outplay people, especially Lulu (<3 Lulu).
In general though, Zyra feels like she does a lot of things in lane really well (harass, zone, brush control, vision control) and good ults just win teamfights outright, much like Crescendo. I think at least at my level that's all I can really hope for in a support. I really don't even know why I'm even trying to learn Fiddle, Sona and Nami at the moment when I can just run Zyra/Lulu every game (A)
On August 22 2013 05:05 Mikau wrote: I can't believe Zyra isn't seeing more play. She's like a safe Leona. Has brush control, can zone, and can harass from a safe distance. And her all in doesn't demand you commit nearly as much as Leona's, while only being marginally weaker. Oh and stranglethorns is the shiet.
C9 been playing zyra a fuckkkton. dunno what you talking about "seeing more play".
I probably should have specified I wasn't talking about LCS specifically, but more about my own games.
Not only that, but competetively (C9 and whenever one of the other team decides to copy them) she only gets played with Twitch or Ashe. I don't see why she isn't more of a 'stick this with pretty much any team comp' support, like Sona, Thresh and Nami seem to be.
Zyra can get caught out pretty hard, every time I play her, I feel more vulnerable to getting caught out than any other support.
I can see how Nami would be safer, but I don't see how she would be more vulnerable than Sona or Lulu. Not trying to argue by the way, I'm legitimately curious why you feel that way, and what I'm missing here.
I feel like Zyra, outside of the awesome Ult, is basically just Roots+Plants. Roots and Plants are awesome. But sometimes you want something besides roots and plants.
Yes, and Leona is just some stuns. Talking like that you can pretty much devalue every champion's skillset.
On August 22 2013 05:05 Mikau wrote: I can't believe Zyra isn't seeing more play. She's like a safe Leona. Has brush control, can zone, and can harass from a safe distance. And her all in doesn't demand you commit nearly as much as Leona's, while only being marginally weaker. Oh and stranglethorns is the shiet.
C9 been playing zyra a fuckkkton. dunno what you talking about "seeing more play".
I probably should have specified I wasn't talking about LCS specifically, but more about my own games.
Not only that, but competetively (C9 and whenever one of the other team decides to copy them) she only gets played with Twitch or Ashe. I don't see why she isn't more of a 'stick this with pretty much any team comp' support, like Sona, Thresh and Nami seem to be.
Zyra can get caught out pretty hard, every time I play her, I feel more vulnerable to getting caught out than any other support.
I can see how Nami would be safer, but I don't see how she would be more vulnerable than Sona or Lulu. Not trying to argue by the way, I'm legitimately curious why you feel that way, and what I'm missing here.
Lulu's Q, polymorph, + ulti makes it very hard to get caught. Sona has her E, not to mention her W keeps her very tanky, also her ulti is an awesome disengage. Zyra has a root, but that alone isn't enough, especially if opponents flank from an angle.
Ok fair enough, I was thinking not taking ults into account. I guess Zyra's ult, while great disengage, is probably not as good (and too slow) when you get caught.
Without ults though, I still don't really see it. Sona is still squishy as hell even with W, and E won't do much against (hard) cc. In my experience I usually do get away from ganks better as Lulu, with the shield, poly/speedboost (depending on situation) and the amazing glitterlance slow. Still, none of that matters too much when against cc. Though Zyra is no better in that regard, ofcourse.
Zyra has god tier disengage, counter-engage, and objective control/zoning. However, if you need to Start Shit Right Now, Grasping Roots has very low animation which means unless they're forced into walking into it, it is more difficult to hit your target (might even be slower than Aqua Prison). She also doesn't assist in a dive comp as much as other supports due to the delayed knockup, and the need for faster CC lockdown and burst damage. So there are definitely places where Sona, Lulu, or Annie would be more appropriate.
On August 22 2013 05:05 Mikau wrote: I can't believe Zyra isn't seeing more play. She's like a safe Leona. Has brush control, can zone, and can harass from a safe distance. And her all in doesn't demand you commit nearly as much as Leona's, while only being marginally weaker. Oh and stranglethorns is the shiet.
Her dmg on Thorn Spiter and Vine Lasher should NOT scale with level it's ridiculous. Her Lvl 6 burst is sooooo underestimated(especially with ignite) as a support allowing so many situations where you can turn an enemy gank into a kill for you or your ad.
It feels like grasping roots later levels of root are too powerful as well for it's cd and mana cost.
Edit: I used to play Lulu for her ability to control lane so well, but now zyra fits the same purpose with much more success only losing out in utility to Lulu in very niche situations. The amount of bush control seeds afford you is soooo nice.
On August 22 2013 05:05 Mikau wrote: I can't believe Zyra isn't seeing more play. She's like a safe Leona. Has brush control, can zone, and can harass from a safe distance. And her all in doesn't demand you commit nearly as much as Leona's, while only being marginally weaker. Oh and stranglethorns is the shiet.
C9 been playing zyra a fuckkkton. dunno what you talking about "seeing more play".
I probably should have specified I wasn't talking about LCS specifically, but more about my own games.
Not only that, but competetively (C9 and whenever one of the other team decides to copy them) she only gets played with Twitch or Ashe. I don't see why she isn't more of a 'stick this with pretty much any team comp' support, like Sona, Thresh and Nami seem to be.
Zyra can get caught out pretty hard, every time I play her, I feel more vulnerable to getting caught out than any other support.
I can see how Nami would be safer, but I don't see how she would be more vulnerable than Sona or Lulu. Not trying to argue by the way, I'm legitimately curious why you feel that way, and what I'm missing here.
Lulu's Q, polymorph, + ulti makes it very hard to get caught. Sona has her E, not to mention her W keeps her very tanky, also her ulti is an awesome disengage. Zyra has a root, but that alone isn't enough, especially if opponents flank from an angle.
I don't know if this will help but I've started to do when I'm trying to run is root with one plant and then spike another one close to wehre I'm at just for the slow. Seems to work better then having both plants used with the root, which is what I used to do.
Maybe I'm understanding you wrong, but Q plants don't slow.
EPT
