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On July 14 2013 07:52 TheYango wrote:
I personally think the idea that people leave the game over a singular balance issue barring something so completely degenerate as Combo Winter in MtG is way overblown by detractors of longer patch cycles.
MtG doesn't any real competitors, people won't just «switch». Whereas LoL does have easily accessible alternatives, being it DotA, Smite, ...
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Balance is practically irrelevant for lower level play, the win almost always comes down to the better players, I can't tell you how many times I've seen hard counters get smashed at lower levels of play.
I really don't think [a lot of] lower level players understand why games are won/lost enough to care that much about balance anyway. just reading posts about the amazing games in the NA lcs on reddit will tell you as much.
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I wonder if that's why Riot drags its feet so much in regards to cleaning up all the harassment that goes on in games.
Even there's way more terrible behavior than there should be, everybody says Dotas is like 10x worse, so maybe they don't see it as a high priority change.
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Riot gave me another chance instead of perma banning me today lol. I've had 5 time bans now, including two 2 week bans. Are they becoming more lenient or what?
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On July 14 2013 07:27 ArchAngelSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 07:12 obesechicken13 wrote:On July 14 2013 06:50 ArchAngelSC wrote:On July 14 2013 06:44 obesechicken13 wrote:
Recently someone on reddit posted a video of them putting a ward on the enemy red, and then counterjungling them as soon as they went to get it. I tried it today and actually got a kill with it because my smite came up as soon as Udyr got the red buff low enough. Level 4 and a refresh on my red buff and free blue buff, while leaving Udyr dead at level 2. OP.
With regards to Buff transfer, I, as Rengar jungle, rarely take my own first blue. I always give it to mids and I feel it helps them more but it often leads to dead minions under mid tower that no one got experience for. Buff transfers might work for 1v2 top but if you do it 1v2 mid, then you'll lose cs and gain a net loss in team exp. There's no way your smite can be up a 2nd time before they've taken their first red... So I don't really understand how you're doing this. Can you explain it a bit further? Sure, I got really lucky. He went blue, wolves, wraiths?, golems, then red. Purple side. I went red, wraiths, wolves, then his red. Blue side. I smited my red and then his red. He smited his blue and his red early. The trick is just to counterjungle the enemy jungler at their second buff. I smited stupidly early on. It's a low risk high reward trick if you start with a ward. What league is that in? Cause I can't remember the last time I saw someone do small camps in between their buffs.
I'm Silver and I can't remember the last time someone's done that either lol. But most people who do smiteless double buffs get low in their clears so this strategy is targeted at punishing that strategy.
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I was going to post about how I do small camps between buffs, then I realized I haven't jungled for 3 or 4 patches.
(see what I did there, I complained about frequent patches and mentioned jungling in the same post  )
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On July 14 2013 06:44 obesechicken13 wrote:
Recently someone on reddit posted a video of them putting a ward on the enemy red, and then counterjungling them as soon as they went to get it. I tried it today and actually got a kill with it because my smite came up as soon as Udyr got the red buff low enough. Level 4 and a refresh on my red buff and free blue buff, while leaving Udyr dead at level 2. OP.
With regards to Buff transfer, I, as Rengar jungle, rarely take my own first blue. I always give it to mids and I feel it helps them more but it often leads to dead minions under mid tower that no one got experience for. Buff transfers might work for 1v2 top but if you do it 1v2 mid, then you'll lose cs and gain a net loss in team exp.
Ugh; how do you live with yourself giving up first blue buff? that's such a huge xp gain.... If you don't get both buffs I feel you fall too far behind.
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On July 14 2013 08:16 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 06:44 obesechicken13 wrote:
Recently someone on reddit posted a video of them putting a ward on the enemy red, and then counterjungling them as soon as they went to get it. I tried it today and actually got a kill with it because my smite came up as soon as Udyr got the red buff low enough. Level 4 and a refresh on my red buff and free blue buff, while leaving Udyr dead at level 2. OP.
With regards to Buff transfer, I, as Rengar jungle, rarely take my own first blue. I always give it to mids and I feel it helps them more but it often leads to dead minions under mid tower that no one got experience for. Buff transfers might work for 1v2 top but if you do it 1v2 mid, then you'll lose cs and gain a net loss in team exp. Ugh; how do you live with yourself giving up first blue buff? that's such a huge xp gain.... If you don't get both buffs I feel you fall too far behind.
On a jungle that gets a ton of milage out of lvl6 at that
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On July 14 2013 08:23 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 08:16 wei2coolman wrote:On July 14 2013 06:44 obesechicken13 wrote:
Recently someone on reddit posted a video of them putting a ward on the enemy red, and then counterjungling them as soon as they went to get it. I tried it today and actually got a kill with it because my smite came up as soon as Udyr got the red buff low enough. Level 4 and a refresh on my red buff and free blue buff, while leaving Udyr dead at level 2. OP.
With regards to Buff transfer, I, as Rengar jungle, rarely take my own first blue. I always give it to mids and I feel it helps them more but it often leads to dead minions under mid tower that no one got experience for. Buff transfers might work for 1v2 top but if you do it 1v2 mid, then you'll lose cs and gain a net loss in team exp. Ugh; how do you live with yourself giving up first blue buff? that's such a huge xp gain.... If you don't get both buffs I feel you fall too far behind. On a jungle that gets a ton of milage out of lvl6 at that
Yeah, it sucks to wait longer for level 6, but so many mids are able to get kills or stay even out of the blue so in the end I think it's worth it for the team.
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On July 14 2013 08:23 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 08:16 wei2coolman wrote:On July 14 2013 06:44 obesechicken13 wrote:
Recently someone on reddit posted a video of them putting a ward on the enemy red, and then counterjungling them as soon as they went to get it. I tried it today and actually got a kill with it because my smite came up as soon as Udyr got the red buff low enough. Level 4 and a refresh on my red buff and free blue buff, while leaving Udyr dead at level 2. OP.
With regards to Buff transfer, I, as Rengar jungle, rarely take my own first blue. I always give it to mids and I feel it helps them more but it often leads to dead minions under mid tower that no one got experience for. Buff transfers might work for 1v2 top but if you do it 1v2 mid, then you'll lose cs and gain a net loss in team exp. Ugh; how do you live with yourself giving up first blue buff? that's such a huge xp gain.... If you don't get both buffs I feel you fall too far behind. On a jungle that gets a ton of milage out of lvl6 at that
Our testing showed that if you don't gank at all and just constantly farm, you hit 6 at right around the same time (within 10-20 seconds) donating the buff as if you didn't.
Depends a little on the clear speed of the jungler probably, haven't tested it with every jungler under the sun.
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On July 14 2013 08:30 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 08:23 Slusher wrote:On July 14 2013 08:16 wei2coolman wrote:On July 14 2013 06:44 obesechicken13 wrote:
Recently someone on reddit posted a video of them putting a ward on the enemy red, and then counterjungling them as soon as they went to get it. I tried it today and actually got a kill with it because my smite came up as soon as Udyr got the red buff low enough. Level 4 and a refresh on my red buff and free blue buff, while leaving Udyr dead at level 2. OP.
With regards to Buff transfer, I, as Rengar jungle, rarely take my own first blue. I always give it to mids and I feel it helps them more but it often leads to dead minions under mid tower that no one got experience for. Buff transfers might work for 1v2 top but if you do it 1v2 mid, then you'll lose cs and gain a net loss in team exp. Ugh; how do you live with yourself giving up first blue buff? that's such a huge xp gain.... If you don't get both buffs I feel you fall too far behind. On a jungle that gets a ton of milage out of lvl6 at that Yeah, it sucks to wait longer for level 6, but so many mids are able to get kills or stay even out of the blue so in the end I think it's worth it for the team.
I wish I could trust my solo laners not to derp.
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On July 14 2013 08:30 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 08:23 Slusher wrote:On July 14 2013 08:16 wei2coolman wrote:On July 14 2013 06:44 obesechicken13 wrote:
Recently someone on reddit posted a video of them putting a ward on the enemy red, and then counterjungling them as soon as they went to get it. I tried it today and actually got a kill with it because my smite came up as soon as Udyr got the red buff low enough. Level 4 and a refresh on my red buff and free blue buff, while leaving Udyr dead at level 2. OP.
With regards to Buff transfer, I, as Rengar jungle, rarely take my own first blue. I always give it to mids and I feel it helps them more but it often leads to dead minions under mid tower that no one got experience for. Buff transfers might work for 1v2 top but if you do it 1v2 mid, then you'll lose cs and gain a net loss in team exp. Ugh; how do you live with yourself giving up first blue buff? that's such a huge xp gain.... If you don't get both buffs I feel you fall too far behind. On a jungle that gets a ton of milage out of lvl6 at that Our testing showed that if you don't gank at all and just constantly farm, you hit 6 at right around the same time (within 10-20 seconds) donating the buff as if you didn't. Depends a little on the clear speed of the jungler probably, haven't tested it with every jungler under the sun.
did you test it with Rengar because his clear sucks balls early ( I read that and it sounded mean, I am actually just curious.)
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On July 14 2013 08:36 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 08:30 Ketara wrote:On July 14 2013 08:23 Slusher wrote:On July 14 2013 08:16 wei2coolman wrote:On July 14 2013 06:44 obesechicken13 wrote:
Recently someone on reddit posted a video of them putting a ward on the enemy red, and then counterjungling them as soon as they went to get it. I tried it today and actually got a kill with it because my smite came up as soon as Udyr got the red buff low enough. Level 4 and a refresh on my red buff and free blue buff, while leaving Udyr dead at level 2. OP.
With regards to Buff transfer, I, as Rengar jungle, rarely take my own first blue. I always give it to mids and I feel it helps them more but it often leads to dead minions under mid tower that no one got experience for. Buff transfers might work for 1v2 top but if you do it 1v2 mid, then you'll lose cs and gain a net loss in team exp. Ugh; how do you live with yourself giving up first blue buff? that's such a huge xp gain.... If you don't get both buffs I feel you fall too far behind. On a jungle that gets a ton of milage out of lvl6 at that Our testing showed that if you don't gank at all and just constantly farm, you hit 6 at right around the same time (within 10-20 seconds) donating the buff as if you didn't. Depends a little on the clear speed of the jungler probably, haven't tested it with every jungler under the sun. did you test it with Rengar because his clear sucks balls early ( I read that and it sounded mean, I am actually just curious.)
Don't own Rengar. Would be really neat if you could test it for us :D
I just did Zac for some numbers.
Doing the buff donation strat I hit level 6 at 7:24, doing a standard strat I hit level 6 at 7:24.
Kinda interesting how that works out huh. The difference in EXP from doing the red buff meant that the camp before the camp I hit level 6 on I got to 700/720 exp necessary, but hit 6 on the same camp with both clears.
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Shamelessly reposting this, hoping to get some discussion but got buried earlier by the balance talk haha.
So I have been messing around with the Trick2g boots+4pots/21 utility jungle opening. I like it a lot. I used to run 21 utility back in early S3 and always thought it was the optimal way to jungle. So many good jungle stats in that tree. What I was always missing was the early game which boots solves. Has anyone else been working on this, curious what you think? I think it's the best way to jungle, it's pretty damn easy to get 50+ more MS than ur opps which is the S2 Boots vs No Boots advantage. Been mainly playing with Nasus and Maokai while testing this out.
Here's an example from a game I played yesterday (blind pick T_T) of move speeds at lvl 1+original buy and how much of an advantage I had in speed. The (X) numbers are the advantage difference. Also the other Nasus had 21 utility (no boots opening) and Teemo opened boots.
My Team
Nasus (Me) - 403 MS
Teemo - 360 MS (+43)
Soraka - 347 MS (+56)
Rengar - 345 MS (+58)
Zed - 345 MS (+58)
Enemy Team
Nasus (not me) - 365 MS (+38)
Xerath - 340 MS (+63)
Malphite - 335 MS (+68)
Vayne - 330 MS (+73)
Thresh - 335 MS (+68)
The early ganks are BRUTAL with that much of a MS difference, would really love to hear more thoughts on it however.
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On July 14 2013 07:56 Ketara wrote:
I wonder if that's why Riot drags its feet so much in regards to cleaning up all the harassment that goes on in games.
Even there's way more terrible behavior than there should be, everybody says Dotas is like 10x worse, so maybe they don't see it as a high priority change.
Lots of reasons:
1. Because its hard to police.
2. Most cases are subjective.
3. Lots of players bm at some point.
4. The tribunal is not that helpful because its full of punish spamming cop wannabes.
Etc
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On July 14 2013 09:01 Diamond wrote:Shamelessly reposting this, hoping to get some discussion but got buried earlier by the balance talk haha. Show nested quote +So I have been messing around with the Trick2g boots+4pots/21 utility jungle opening. I like it a lot. I used to run 21 utility back in early S3 and always thought it was the optimal way to jungle. So many good jungle stats in that tree. What I was always missing was the early game which boots solves. Has anyone else been working on this, curious what you think? I think it's the best way to jungle, it's pretty damn easy to get 50+ more MS than ur opps which is the S2 Boots vs No Boots advantage. Been mainly playing with Nasus and Maokai while testing this out.
Here's an example from a game I played yesterday (blind pick T_T) of move speeds at lvl 1+original buy and how much of an advantage I had in speed. The (X) numbers are the advantage difference. Also the other Nasus had 21 utility (no boots opening) and Teemo opened boots.
My Team
Nasus (Me) - 403 MS
Teemo - 360 MS (+43)
Soraka - 347 MS (+56)
Rengar - 345 MS (+58)
Zed - 345 MS (+58)
Enemy Team
Nasus (not me) - 365 MS (+38)
Xerath - 340 MS (+63)
Malphite - 335 MS (+68)
Vayne - 330 MS (+73)
Thresh - 335 MS (+68)
The early ganks are BRUTAL with that much of a MS difference, would really love to hear more thoughts on it however.
sacrificing clear speed for movement speed
dont think its worth it
utility sacrifices lategame shit from defensive tree
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On July 13 2013 13:47 nanospartan wrote:
Uhhgh, i dont know what to do as pantheon when your behind, went hexdrinker->boots 1->LW, v elise (+heavy mao supp) and just didnt know what to do, ended up getting a vamp, giants belt, then warmogs.
I meant build wise after LW :3 sorry xD
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On July 14 2013 09:18 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 09:01 Diamond wrote:Shamelessly reposting this, hoping to get some discussion but got buried earlier by the balance talk haha. So I have been messing around with the Trick2g boots+4pots/21 utility jungle opening. I like it a lot. I used to run 21 utility back in early S3 and always thought it was the optimal way to jungle. So many good jungle stats in that tree. What I was always missing was the early game which boots solves. Has anyone else been working on this, curious what you think? I think it's the best way to jungle, it's pretty damn easy to get 50+ more MS than ur opps which is the S2 Boots vs No Boots advantage. Been mainly playing with Nasus and Maokai while testing this out.
Here's an example from a game I played yesterday (blind pick T_T) of move speeds at lvl 1+original buy and how much of an advantage I had in speed. The (X) numbers are the advantage difference. Also the other Nasus had 21 utility (no boots opening) and Teemo opened boots.
My Team
Nasus (Me) - 403 MS
Teemo - 360 MS (+43)
Soraka - 347 MS (+56)
Rengar - 345 MS (+58)
Zed - 345 MS (+58)
Enemy Team
Nasus (not me) - 365 MS (+38)
Xerath - 340 MS (+63)
Malphite - 335 MS (+68)
Vayne - 330 MS (+73)
Thresh - 335 MS (+68)
The early ganks are BRUTAL with that much of a MS difference, would really love to hear more thoughts on it however. sacrificing clear speed for movement speed dont think its worth it utility sacrifices lategame shit from defensive tree
I don't find the clear speed to be much different at all without Machete. In solo que I think one of about every 10-15 games goes to lategame, I think I'd rather have the stronger early and mid game instead.
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How does not taking tough skin/ bladed armor and not having machete affect Nasus? I imagine that vs. the machete+ 5 start you'd end up a lot lower and slower.
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On July 14 2013 09:25 ticklishmusic wrote:
How does not taking tough skin/ bladed armor affect Nasus?
I still take those. 0/9/21. 4% in CDR blues for 10% CDR start.
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EPT
