EPTIncidentally, Aqua Prison has more or less the same per rank scaling as Rocket Grab (flat mana cost, 1 sec CD per rank, 55 damage per rank).
[Patch 3.09: Spirit Guard Udyr Patch] General Discussion -…
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Incidentally, Aqua Prison has more or less the same per rank scaling as Rocket Grab (flat mana cost, 1 sec CD per rank, 55 damage per rank). | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On July 13 2013 01:43 onlywonderboy wrote: Oh yeah, I lied, I guess Moscow was the trip several players were complaining about. Yep, the power of the Schengen. It has policy ramifications on European immigration policy for non-Schengen citizens, but I digress. WTB North American Union plox. I'm looking at that Spectral Cowl (Spellbreaker with current numbers is bonkers). Current impressions based on PBE numbers? | ||
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
On July 13 2013 02:08 TheYango wrote: The CD goes down (the other 2 skills have flat CDs), the mana cost stays the same (the other 2 spells have increasing CDs), and the damage per rank is exceptionally good for a support nuke. The idea that leveling W gives you better poke compared to Q is totally laughable, particularly early game where you would be heavily hamstrung by the high mana cost of W if you actually used it like that. So if I make shitty item choices I can make shitty skill orders less shitty? Hooray! In my experience with Nami, being my favorite support, E max is way superior any other skill. The 4 second less cd could make a difference in team fights I agree. But I don't see how the 40 or so damage less E max justifies the substantially less powerful slow | ||
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Imbu
United States903 Posts
On July 13 2013 01:59 MattBarry wrote: The circle doesn't get any bigger, and the stun doesn't last any longer when you max it. Why would you max Q on Nami instead of E (scaling slow) or W (stronger heal/more reliable poke than Q) I've been playing a lot more Nami lately and I've come to the conclusion that there are no real in lane counters. Picking her really depends on the rest of the team/opponent's team. If you're attempting to make a hard engage team (and with your friend playing Varus), Nami fits in pretty well, especially now that Thresh has entered the realm of permaban. Janna is somewhat of a natural counter to all hard engage comps, but that doesn't make the laning phase too much different. I've gone for a W > E > Q sequence since the heal/dmg from maxing W first really helps in the early laning phase, and Q is really just a strong utility move. After watching the Koreans play her, what I love to do with her ult is initiate with it and then chain the CC from the ult with Q, usually leading to a kill. Defensively, I use the Q to help peel for my carry, so I guess whoever is closest/is engaging on them. | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
I was actually considering running R > Q > E > W and not taking points in W at all until necessary. It doesn't scale particularly well into mid/late-game at all. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 13 2013 02:13 MattBarry wrote: In my experience with Nami, being my favorite support, E max is way superior any other skill. The 4 second less cd could make a difference in team fights I agree. But I don't see how the 40 or so damage less E max justifies the substantially less powerful slow 40 damage difference is assuming you will never hit multi-target Aqua Prisons, which is more or less likely depending on your comfort with the skill and the teamcomps in question. | ||
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
On July 13 2013 02:16 TheYango wrote: 40 damage difference is assuming you will never hit multi-target Aqua Prisons, which is more or less likely depending on your comfort with the skill and the teamcomps in question. It's pretty difficult to hit a multiple person bubble unless you're following up on another person's CC. And if you hit a 2 person bubble in lane you're opponent clearly has no idea what they're doing On July 13 2013 02:14 kainzero wrote: I run out of mana plenty of times when I max Ebb and Flow and build Philo. I even run out of mana when I aim for Mikael's and build Philo+Chalice. I was actually considering running R > Q > E > W and not taking points in W at all until necessary. It doesn't scale particularly well into mid/late-game at all. Get a point in W for an additional proc of your passive. It helps so much when your're chasing someone down trying to get the E slow on them | ||
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Imbu
United States903 Posts
On July 13 2013 02:14 kainzero wrote: I run out of mana plenty of times when I max Ebb and Flow and build Philo. I even run out of mana when I aim for Mikael's and build Philo+Chalice. I was actually considering running R > Q > E > W and not taking points in W at all until necessary. It doesn't scale particularly well into mid/late-game at all. When I first started Nami I was constantly running out of mana. I ended up using W whenever my adc goes in for a trade. They're close enough for me to get the bounces off, so it becomes a spell that does damage and heals twice. How is Mikael's btw? I keep thinking of building it but I'm just not sold on it. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
On July 13 2013 02:20 cLutZ wrote: People still build philo? Even if I do a charm start, I just sit on it or maybe build chalice if mana is my thing. Why not build philo. It gives good stats and gp/10. Even Lemonation agrees that philo is a good buy for soloqueue since you don't need to ward the whole map at 5 minutes unless you're in a pro game | ||
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Noro
Canada991 Posts
On July 13 2013 01:21 Clinic wrote: judging by the comparison to NFL etc, the visa extension was for P1-As, which really is big news since the criteria include that the LCS is recognized as a 'major sports league'. see more at the uscis page This makes me so happy. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 13 2013 02:19 MattBarry wrote: It's pretty difficult to hit a multiple person bubble unless you're following up on another person's CC. And if you hit a 2 person bubble in lane you're opponent clearly has no idea what they're doing Well yeah this is my point. You can't just skill entirely for lane. Q max is acceptably strong in lane and has far stronger teamfight potential with certain teams that can set you up. You aren't going to be level 13 before you go to teamfights as a support, so its a very real possibility. | ||
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
On July 13 2013 02:24 TheYango wrote: Well yeah this is my point. You can't just skill entirely for lane. Q max is acceptably strong in lane and has far stronger teamfight potential with certain teams that can set you up. You aren't going to be level 13 before you go to teamfights as a support, so its a very real possibility. I think I'll try Q max out but I'll probably stick to E max. I've grown too accustomed to its utility | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On July 13 2013 02:21 MattBarry wrote: Why not build philo. It gives good stats and gp/10. Even Lemonation agrees that philo is a good buy for soloqueue since you don't need to ward the whole map at 5 minutes unless you're in a pro game I'd rather just buy sightstone and start building towards my bigger ticket items. Sightstone is effectively a GP10 and I'd rather have more combat stats. At least that's how I feel. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
It's just that W max is generally bad, lol. On July 13 2013 02:19 Imbu wrote: How is Mikael's btw? I keep thinking of building it but I'm just not sold on it. It's an item for an AP champ, not a support. Supports don't have the budget to spend so much money on regen over survivability, whereas buying a lot of regen is par for the course for a lot of APs. In theory if Tear gets nerfed it becomes an acceptable alternative mana source with clutch active use, but as of right now, Tear covers most use cases too efficiently for it to be worthwhile. Probably the most unexplored part of the item is how the fixed activation delay allows you to self-cleanse things within 0.2 seconds if you time the active right (which is very doable for a lot of slower projectiles). | ||
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
On July 13 2013 02:27 TheYango wrote: Again, I think it depends a lot on your AD and the teams in question. The two play somewhat differently and they're both good. It's just that W max is generally bad, lol. It's an item for an AP champ, not a support. In theory if Tear gets nerfed it becomes an acceptable alternative mana source with clutch active use, but as of right now, Tear covers most use cases too efficiently for it to be worthwhile. Probably the most unexplored part of the item is how the fixed activation delay probably allows you to self-cleanse things within 0.2 seconds if you time the active right (which is very doable for a lot of slower projectiles). I can't imagine an AP ever getting crucible over Grail. 20% cdr too good | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
no reason to miss anymore  and if they are still getting away. its tital wave time. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
As for Q vs. E max, E max requires you/your ADC get 3 autos off before the full damage comes into effect, whereas landing a Q means getting the full damage upfront. I personally highly value the burst vs. over time factor of the damage. It's just much more valuable for that, and lowering the CDR on the bubble can be huge, and no scaling mana costs improve Nami's potentially tight mana economy, esp. in lane. EDIT: I also disagree Yango. Mikael's is still an effective support item on mana hungry supports (such as Nami), and the active means your ADC won't have to spend a slot on a QSS (which is when you should get it, in all honesty). The question is whether or not you should get it over Shureylas with the Philo upgrade, and in that case, Shureylas will generally win over. The problem with Mikael's isn't that it's not a support item, moreso there are better support items. Lack of CDR discourages me, personally.  | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
Arranged 5s is obviously different. | ||
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