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On July 31 2013 00:45 Slayer91 wrote:
i remember destroying some terribel singed players when i was playing jax a lot but its one of those skill wars because of the way singed poison works and his fling theres so much room for going in to trade and taking 0 damage or going in and losing half ur hp
theres alot ot say about early game trades in this matchup and from a certain level of experience the matchup turns into a skill matchup. Jax has to squeeze in damage where he can and his movement has to be calculated. singed can play aggressive but he can't ever really kill a jax if he doesn't get into his head. jax also has to constantly auto creeps as much as he can and he has to ward very well.
the real problem in that lane is that jax can be forced to buy additional sustain (lifesteal) + mb additional mr which is crappy in teamfights so it delays his teamfight presence quite a bit. singed can prevent a jax to skirmish aggressively because he pushes faster so the lifesteal which is good at skirmishing is only there to push lanes and trade with singed here and there.
And I really dunno what should be so scary about the malphite matchup. as soon as jax has double dorans and mercs i dont think malph can ever touch jax without him getting caught in a gank. jax on the other hand just slowly gets ahead because he gets so much damage with short Rprocc auto W auto burst trades or even with EQ combos. malphs E really only helps him to so much because jax gets alot of his damage from auto attack timing and W while attackspeed only matters in a full EQ combo really. Also my experience is that malph gets oom really fast while relying more on spells than jax. I have yet to lose that matchup with jax.
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On July 31 2013 01:18 Clinic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 01:09 Mauzel wrote:
Maybe this is a dumb question but is top lane soloQ meta like
Tier 0: Kennen / Jayce
Tier 1: Elise (post nerf) / Riven / Renekton / Ryze / Wukong / Tryn
Tier 2: Singed / Malph / Vlad / Nasus / Yorick / Rumble / Jax / Cho / Shen
Edit: Where tier is some weird subjective combo of popularity / win rate good enough, there's always something to disagree about when it comes to something as subjective (and counterproductive) as soloq tier lists, but i think this is fine
I agree that soloq tier lists are pretty silly but I am seriously clueless about potential top lane champions.
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ok found the 2v2 tournament rules ^^
2v2, Tournament Draft auf der The Howling Abyss map. First to 4 kills OR two towers. Zeitlimit ist 12 Minuten; plus evtl. Pausezeit. Wenn nach 12 Minuten noch keins der beiden Kriterien erfuellt ist, so wird eben gezaehlt. Kills > Tower > Farm. Also wenn's 1-1 in Kills steht, gewinnt der, der nen Tower mehr hat. Wenn auch das gleich ist, so gewinnt das Team mit mehr Farm.
First to 4 kills or 2 towers, timelimit is 12min excluding pausetime. If you got neither the required kills nor towers after 12min it's Kills>Tower>Farm, meaning if it's 2:2 in kills the team with 1:0 in towers wins , if both teams have 1 or 0 towers it's about the cs.
I like Cait+Janna for the push push push+farm style cause I main ad and I buddy mains supp but it's probably boring as shit haha
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On July 31 2013 01:27 AsnSensation wrote:ok found the 2v2 tournament rules ^^ Show nested quote +2v2, Tournament Draft auf der The Howling Abyss map. First to 4 kills OR two towers. Zeitlimit ist 12 Minuten; plus evtl. Pausezeit. Wenn nach 12 Minuten noch keins der beiden Kriterien erfuellt ist, so wird eben gezaehlt. Kills > Tower > Farm. Also wenn's 1-1 in Kills steht, gewinnt der, der nen Tower mehr hat. Wenn auch das gleich ist, so gewinnt das Team mit mehr Farm. First to 4 kills or 2 towers, timelimit is 12min excluding pausetime. If you got neither the required kills nor towers after 12min it's Kills>Tower>Farm, meaning if it's 2:2 in kills the team with 1:0 in towers wins , if both teams have 1 or 0 towers it's about the cs. I like Cait+Janna for the push push push+farm style cause I main ad and I buddy mains supp but it's probably boring as shit haha
I think you should seriously consider Elise as a champion picked if either you or your friend can brush up on it before the event starts. The other can be any ranged champion.
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On July 31 2013 00:25 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 00:12 ETisME wrote:
man, any tips on how to deal with Jax if you are going for some AD heavy champion like irelia or rengar?
I almost always lose on top lane in normal draft if they ever pick Jax, getting my jungler to help works but that means he can't gank other lanes well.
How should I play?? Should I just roam along with jungler? Afaik you should lose to Jax as Irelia, level 6 at the latest, simply because his ult's passive will let him outdamage you with raw autoattacks, and even though you outdamage him when you activate Hiten Style, 2s of counterstrike + 1s stun basically halves your damage and he can simply sustain it during the cooldown or stack HP and be fine the way Olaf does (Jax prefers HP to resists due to his ult's active). Because of its long cooldown Hiten Style is basically a huge cd, true damage nuke, while Jax's ult passive and W are dps tools. If he's bad he'll try to engage you with EQ, stun and keep hitting, your own stun followed with Hiten Style should outtrade him and easily punish any premature Counterstrike. Just make sure that he's not doing it as a bait for a gank.
More or less. As Irelia is my go-to top lane pick, it's a losing matchup assuming equal skill/champion familiarity. Prior to Irelia nerfs, Irelia's sustain gave her a moderate edge pre-6, enough that she could still reliably win lanes assuming equal skill. The edge is still there, but Jax with enough items post-6 should start going even/win, and "should" be after level 9+ (where Irelia's power in lane peaks with max Hiten).
That being said, the matchup isn't that cut and dry, and it's still a skill matchup (if all the dead Jaxs I've played against as Irelia is any indication). Itemization-wise, either Jax goes for early sustain/damage (dorans/vamp/cutlass), which leaves him vulnerable to Hiten, or he goes early health (which means Irelia can out-sustain Jax after favorable trades and wear him down, without any innate sustain on Jax, especially as Irelia's core item these days is BotRK): he can't quite do both. And while yes, Counterstrike on Hiten shuts her damage down for the duration, pre-6, Jax lacks the ability to effectively trade versus Irelia without it when she has Equilibrium Strike available, and even nerfed, Irelia's sustain means she "wins" even trades (and she can win early trades effectively).
That being said, Jax surviving pre-6 by going roughly even is a win for him versus Irelia due to scaling with roughly similar item builds (though Irelia's better versus CC, particularly single target CC).
If you're playing Irelia, I tend to go for heavy sustain starts vs Jax (Flask+4 pot), and attritioning him out through it, though lack of warding top lane leaves your vulnerable. If he goes early health, you can't instagib him, so wear him down to the point where you can. If he goes sustain/dmg, he can do a number on you and possibly kill you if you're moderately overextended, but you can to the same reactively (i.e. if he tries to go in on you) or if you catch him CSing with an E stun, and probably kill him if you bait out the counterstrike. If not, you can generally win the trade due to all the true dmgz and sustain (just a vamp or a Dorans makes Irelia difficult to push out).
When playing Jax as an AA-centric champion, it's all based around baiting out the Counterstrike and pulling ahead early (pre-6 generally), then keeping him down the entire way.
With something like Fiora, go full dmgz and max W (and remember full arpen), and you'll crush him early, and win through extended fights (once his Counterstrike is used and you get 2-3 Riposte's over) as the lane progresses, and despite being able to Counterstrike Fiora's R, he can't also use it to block her AAs. Provided the enemy jungler doesn't shut you down, which you can bet they will try.
Not familiar enough with other AA'ing tops to comment.
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On July 31 2013 01:27 AsnSensation wrote:ok found the 2v2 tournament rules ^^ Show nested quote +2v2, Tournament Draft auf der The Howling Abyss map. First to 4 kills OR two towers. Zeitlimit ist 12 Minuten; plus evtl. Pausezeit. Wenn nach 12 Minuten noch keins der beiden Kriterien erfuellt ist, so wird eben gezaehlt. Kills > Tower > Farm. Also wenn's 1-1 in Kills steht, gewinnt der, der nen Tower mehr hat. Wenn auch das gleich ist, so gewinnt das Team mit mehr Farm. First to 4 kills or 2 towers, timelimit is 12min excluding pausetime. If you got neither the required kills nor towers after 12min it's Kills>Tower>Farm, meaning if it's 2:2 in kills the team with 1:0 in towers wins , if both teams have 1 or 0 towers it's about the cs. I like Cait+Janna for the push push push+farm style cause I main ad and I buddy mains supp but it's probably boring as shit haha
janna cait sounds kinda solid for a push + farm comp. i would also consider varus and sona if I wanted to play an adc+supp comp. If you want to go for the kills then search your picks in the top/jungle/supp pools (and some more aggresive, not push oriented mids) and find some nice skill synergy. I'am a huge fan of panth duo lanes because he has a reliable stun and gaplcoser with some burst on top of it which goes very well with alot of supports and other champs (janna for EQ setup, lee for WEQ setup, leona for tons of damage)
I also think in a pure 2on2 setup there are some bruisers who arent as obvious but can be sick surprise picks even like nasus or udyr.
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Pantheon isn't very good honestly.Janna completely counters him.Unless your opponents are smart and go sona/varus or something like that janna/cait should win against anything.
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I feel like you'd want the ability to all-in and get first blood, then be able to play safe and wave clear with impunity. That's how I'd approach it.
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My thinking was use cait janna to get the first turret and then wave clear for 8-10 mins. If they ban cait then idk ad annie?
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United States15536 Posts
Wow finally won a game on Ashe.
Man I just do not understand ADC positioning. I get the whole "never die always shoot stuff deal" but it's really hard. Also kiting is a bitch (TOO MANY BUTTONS FOR MY SUPPORT/JUNGLE HANDS). Of course, I also decided I loved Ashe, so the whole kiting deal is TOTALLY MY FAULT.
Anyone have any tips about movement, timing, and where to stand as a marksmen? My mechanics are an entirely separate problem, but maybe I could improve a bit based on more general recommendations for ADC strategy (i.e. DON'T JUMP IN PLS)
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Why not something like Malzhar and Morgana for a push push silence/blacksheild lane or an AD Annie/Malzhar for 100-0ing some one level 6.
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Pantheon is probably a really strong pick. You can turret dive with his passive, and if you don't get ahead and end up stalemating you could potentially ult-suicide near the 12 minute mark, and then just get a huge item advantage if your partner can wave clear.
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On July 31 2013 01:24 clickrush wrote:And I really dunno what should be so scary about the malphite matchup. as soon as jax has double dorans and mercs i dont think malph can ever touch jax without him getting caught in a gank. jax on the other hand just slowly gets ahead because he gets so much damage with short Rprocc auto W auto burst trades or even with EQ combos. malphs E really only helps him to so much because jax gets alot of his damage from auto attack timing and W while attackspeed only matters in a full EQ combo really. Also my experience is that malph gets oom really fast while relying more on spells than jax. I have yet to lose that matchup with jax.
You have really weird ideas about who is susceptible to ganks. Malph's burst damage takes like 0 commitment to a fight, he just walks away after e/q with the bonus move speed from his q. Unless Malph is being a derp about his positioning, Jax has to blow his jump to do the auto/w/auto combo. Now you're wide open to Malph ult or any jungler cc. Malph is pretty immune to ganks too, if he uses his ult defensively (not optimal by any means, but its an option). Malph cheese wheel also means its pretty rare that Malph dies to Jax 1v1 unless he seriously miscalculates a fight.
Chalice takes care of most of Malph's mana needs.
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I just lost my second series to plat 1-3 and only two of these game i played my main role, so mad right now >< I dont know how to play these I feel like i should just pick support and someday I will be carried trough series by my team, not doing much TT
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Kayle / Blitz
Wave clear + dueling power + ability to randomly kill one of them with hook.
Alternatively Kayle / Thresh might be good.
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Maknoon will be casting with Chobra for the upcoming OGN matches in the absence of Montecristo and doa apparently. I thought it would be loco or Bischu but this is pretty damn cool too
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On July 31 2013 00:36 Slayer91 wrote:
malphite and singed really arent that good against jax and nasus can win but its not always that simple
i mean i played a lot of malph and quite a bit of jax and never thought the mu was clear cut for either. (after the malphite E nerfs)
i kinda stopped playing jax for no particular raeson but i never remember having too much trouble in laning phase
I don't see how singed doesn't hard counter jax without a ton of jungle help singed can pretty much ignore jax and just free farm and cause jax to miss farm and without jungle help jax will lose his tower fairly quickly
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On July 31 2013 03:10 zer0das wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 01:24 clickrush wrote:And I really dunno what should be so scary about the malphite matchup. as soon as jax has double dorans and mercs i dont think malph can ever touch jax without him getting caught in a gank. jax on the other hand just slowly gets ahead because he gets so much damage with short Rprocc auto W auto burst trades or even with EQ combos. malphs E really only helps him to so much because jax gets alot of his damage from auto attack timing and W while attackspeed only matters in a full EQ combo really. Also my experience is that malph gets oom really fast while relying more on spells than jax. I have yet to lose that matchup with jax. You have really weird ideas about who is susceptible to ganks. Malph's burst damage takes like 0 commitment to a fight, he just walks away after e/q with the bonus move speed from his q. Unless Malph is being a derp about his positioning, Jax has to blow his jump to do the auto/w/auto combo. Now you're wide open to Malph ult or any jungler cc. Malph is pretty immune to ganks too, if he uses his ult defensively (not optimal by any means, but its an option). Malph cheese wheel also means its pretty rare that Malph dies to Jax 1v1 unless he seriously miscalculates a fight. Chalice takes care of most of Malph's mana needs.
Malph cheese wheel is a hilarious way of describing his Q
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On July 31 2013 03:06 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Wow finally won a game on Ashe.
Man I just do not understand ADC positioning. I get the whole "never die always shoot stuff deal" but it's really hard. Also kiting is a bitch (TOO MANY BUTTONS FOR MY SUPPORT/JUNGLE HANDS). Of course, I also decided I loved Ashe, so the whole kiting deal is TOTALLY MY FAULT.
Anyone have any tips about movement, timing, and where to stand as a marksmen? My mechanics are an entirely separate problem, but maybe I could improve a bit based on more general recommendations for ADC strategy (i.e. DON'T JUMP IN PLS)
Really, it's get to know your attack range, and stay at it (or farther away, if the enemy can possibly close that gap). It's as much lrn2orbwalk effectively, and remain at max range when dealing with a champion like Ashe. It's "fairly" straightforward in terms of gameplan (i.e focus whoever's in front of you, and maxmize your positioning to allow for the most DPS over time), but mechanically it demands quite abit more.
Try learning to use Attack-move, and work on both orbwalking and attack animation cancelling. Those are the mechanics a kiting ADC like Ashe lives or dies by.
Also, Ashe more than any other ADC is team reliant and requires good team coordination to utilize: without it, Ashe isn't nearly as safe as she could be, and has fairly low damage to boot. Wouldn't use her to learn ADCs nowadays (though I use to recommend it back in S1-mid S2). Caitlyn's a better example, with her repositioning tool.
I use to play a mean Ashe late S1/through S2, but recently my Ashe play has gone to poop after grinding dozens of Graves games.
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EPT
