• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:18
CEST 20:18
KST 03:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors14[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists19[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers22Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament INu's Battles#14 <BO.9 2Matches> GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh: This Will Be My Final ASL【ASL S21 Ro.16】 Leta's ASL S21 Ro.16 review ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro8 Day 1 [ASL21] Ro16 Group D Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Diablo IV Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread 3D technology/software discussion European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2138 users

[Patch 3.09: Spirit Guard Udyr Patch] General Discussion -…

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 137 138 139 140 141 339 Next
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
July 18 2013 19:49 GMT
#2761
The problem with Wriggle's is that tries to be too many things at once. It's a vestige of an era where there was only one jungle item, so it had to work for everybody. It basically needs to be removed and replaced with something specifically designed to address what the other jungle items don't.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 18 2013 19:56 GMT
#2762
On July 19 2013 04:49 Seuss wrote:
The problem with Wriggle's is that tries to be too many things at once. It's a vestige of an era where there was only one jungle item, so it had to work for everybody. It basically needs to be removed and replaced with something specifically designed to address what the other jungle items don't.


Which is what? Lifesteal?

I think people are looking at this the wrong way. The problem with wriggles is that the purpose of wriggles (sustain and clear in the jungle) is irrelevant for junglers by the time they build it. Its even too late for the mildly interesting idea of a 1 man dragon.
Freeeeeeedom
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6223 Posts
July 18 2013 19:56 GMT
#2763
On July 19 2013 04:43 Frolossus wrote:
when should you have the use movement prediction option checked?


When your ping is excessive and you experience severe tearing in champion positioning.
lefty
Profile Joined November 2003
United States1896 Posts
July 18 2013 20:58 GMT
#2764
On July 19 2013 01:25 GTR wrote:
I find it quite funny that the top solo queue players on Korea are Mata and Marin (SKT sub).

Can't wait for players to pop up like Oscar, Hazard and Lampard -_-


SKT1 Marin's name is not derived from Marko Marin, he was known as Marin from his Chaos days.
Eppa!
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden4641 Posts
July 18 2013 21:40 GMT
#2765
Remove the LS give it free pink wards. Lifesteal is dead on junglers. Adjust cost.
"Can't wait till Monday" Cixah+Waveofshadow. "Needs to be monday. Weekend please go by quickly." Gahlo
Mauzel
Profile Joined December 2009
United States421 Posts
July 18 2013 21:41 GMT
#2766
wf just started a game where I picked support for a guy and he picked jungle for me but trade button does not work.

now he's stuck with lee ogod.

has this happened to anybody?
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
July 18 2013 21:43 GMT
#2767
On July 19 2013 04:56 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2013 04:49 Seuss wrote:
The problem with Wriggle's is that tries to be too many things at once. It's a vestige of an era where there was only one jungle item, so it had to work for everybody. It basically needs to be removed and replaced with something specifically designed to address what the other jungle items don't.


Which is what? Lifesteal?

I think people are looking at this the wrong way. The problem with wriggles is that the purpose of wriggles (sustain and clear in the jungle) is irrelevant for junglers by the time they build it. Its even too late for the mildly interesting idea of a 1 man dragon.


I don't think people are looking at this the wrong way, just different angles. The common thread being "Wriggle's is a terrible item".

The champions that don't like the Spirit Stone items tend to be auto-attack-centric AD champions, and often don't have mana. Spirit of the Lizard Elder isn't great on them because most of its itemization is only tangentially useful to them. Wriggle's is terrible because it's not a self-sufficient offense or defense item, while at the same time lacking synergy with other offense and defense items ("Wriggle's is a terrible item").

Basically, they need a cheaper Youmuu's Ghostblade.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
July 18 2013 21:49 GMT
#2768
On July 19 2013 06:41 Mauzel wrote:
wf just started a game where I picked support for a guy and he picked jungle for me but trade button does not work.

now he's stuck with lee ogod.

has this happened to anybody?

Yup, had it one or two days ago. Dunno if it's trading in general or the same old bug where if both people try to initiate the swap the UI tells each the other one is already busy swapping, and none can do it.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 18 2013 21:53 GMT
#2769
If wriggles could be bought with the starting 475G instead of Machete+pots and gave you more-jungle-centric-stats, but doran's style, lots of people would buy it on those champs.

But what is the point of clear speed + sustain, when clear speed and sustain are fairly irrelevant after you back the first time?
Freeeeeeedom
upperbound
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2300 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-18 21:55:26
July 18 2013 21:55 GMT
#2770
Lol Wrong thread
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
July 18 2013 21:57 GMT
#2771
I have to say, seeing how the kinds of heroes wriggles is supposed to support have fallen further and further into decline since season one really makes me sympathize with old man craton's dislike for the state of the jungle.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
July 18 2013 22:01 GMT
#2772
i wonder what the stats are like for the new udyr skin. what percent of the population owns it already
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
July 18 2013 22:05 GMT
#2773
On July 19 2013 06:43 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2013 04:56 cLutZ wrote:
On July 19 2013 04:49 Seuss wrote:
The problem with Wriggle's is that tries to be too many things at once. It's a vestige of an era where there was only one jungle item, so it had to work for everybody. It basically needs to be removed and replaced with something specifically designed to address what the other jungle items don't.


Which is what? Lifesteal?

I think people are looking at this the wrong way. The problem with wriggles is that the purpose of wriggles (sustain and clear in the jungle) is irrelevant for junglers by the time they build it. Its even too late for the mildly interesting idea of a 1 man dragon.


I don't think people are looking at this the wrong way, just different angles. The common thread being "Wriggle's is a terrible item".

The champions that don't like the Spirit Stone items tend to be auto-attack-centric AD champions, and often don't have mana. Spirit of the Lizard Elder isn't great on them because most of its itemization is only tangentially useful to them. Wriggle's is terrible because it's not a self-sufficient offense or defense item, while at the same time lacking synergy with other offense and defense items ("Wriggle's is a terrible item").

Basically, they need a cheaper Youmuu's Ghostblade.

Perhaps it could be an item that assists in ganks, and have Spiritstone be something better on farming oriented junglers.

Whatever it is, it's still a crappy item right now. I don't know why you'd take Wriggles over anything on the Spiritstone side.
Anakko
Profile Joined August 2012
France1934 Posts
July 18 2013 22:08 GMT
#2774
idk. Now, even autoattack centric AD champions just pick golem spirit cos it's just too good not to (jarvan, nocturne, vi, even non-mana like zac or mundo that are less reliant on autoatk)

Wriggles is not a good item, but golem spirit is just op right now, which also plays a role.
TrAce/Cpt Jack for president (or both)
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
July 18 2013 22:12 GMT
#2775
- Razors now gives flat life on hit
- Remove wriggles
- Remove ghostblade
- Razors + longsword + recipe = youmuu's wakizashi

youmuu's wakizashi:

Damage bonus vs monsters
Flat life on hit
+AD
Ghostblade active
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Anakko
Profile Joined August 2012
France1934 Posts
July 18 2013 22:14 GMT
#2776
On July 19 2013 07:12 UniversalSnip wrote:
- Razors now gives flat life on hit
- Remove wriggles
- Remove ghostblade
- Razors + longsword + recipe = youmuu's wakizashi

youmuu's wakizashi:

Damage bonus vs monsters
Flat life on hit
+AD
Ghostblade active


I'd buy that. Oh and also remove tenacity from golem spirit (or am i going too far?)
TrAce/Cpt Jack for president (or both)
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
July 18 2013 22:23 GMT
#2777
Oh, so you want to put another sword in the game?

Why not Youmuu's Shuriken, or Kunai, or Kama, or even the War Fan, that's pretty cool...
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-18 22:32:09
July 18 2013 22:25 GMT
#2778
On July 19 2013 07:08 Anakko wrote:
idk. Now, even autoattack centric AD champions just pick golem spirit cos it's just too good not to (jarvan, nocturne, vi, even non-mana like zac or mundo that are less reliant on autoatk)

Wriggles is not a good item, but golem spirit is just op right now, which also plays a role.


I disagree on it being a good item. If Riot just up and removed Spirit Stone and all the shit it build out of tomorrow I'd just go back to sitting on a Madred's all game. Wriggles gives you a bunch of stats you don't care about (aside for armor), a luckluster active (the 1 min ward), and a decent passive (good vs Baron/Drag, overkill vs other camps).

It's an item that fixes a hole for junglers that has not existed since Season 2. Lifesteal and AD is no longer necessary mid to late game as once you get Ancient Golem/Tabi or even Madred's/Tabi you just stop taking damage from the jungle, and the little you do you will heal off from killing the camp leader. The AD is no longer needed to kill the whole camp easier, as the small shit just dies from the aoe on your skills anyways.

It needs a major rework imo, re adapt it to the S3 jungle. Would be cool to have it's active to be like a mini short ranged cv, so you can use it to spot counterganks on the fly or something. Idk if that would be any good, just a random thought. Any way you look at it however, lifesteal is pretty pointless in this version of the S3 jungle.

I have had a long standing theory that junglers would eventually start building Sightstone eventually, using it as a psudeo-HoG (RIP). Saw both junglers in an OGN game last night run them, so if that starts happening, the ward passive becomes 100% useless, even on Lee Sin.

On July 19 2013 04:49 Seuss wrote:
The problem with Wriggle's is that tries to be too many things at once. It's a vestige of an era where there was only one jungle item, so it had to work for everybody. It basically needs to be removed and replaced with something specifically designed to address what the other jungle items don't.


This too, well said.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
July 18 2013 22:26 GMT
#2779
On July 19 2013 07:23 kainzero wrote:
Oh, so you want to put another sword in the game?

Why not Youmuu's Shuriken, or Kunai, or Kama, or even the War Fan, that's pretty cool...

Everything is a sword or weapon. One day Yango went and compared the items between LoL and Dota and and came to the conclusion Dota is the superior game because it has much more item diversity in terms of not weapons. LoL only has like four helms, wtf is up with that?
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-18 22:31:05
July 18 2013 22:29 GMT
#2780
On July 19 2013 07:08 Anakko wrote:
idk. Now, even autoattack centric AD champions just pick golem spirit cos it's just too good not to (jarvan, nocturne, vi, even non-mana like zac or mundo that are less reliant on autoatk)

Wriggles is not a good item, but golem spirit is just op right now, which also plays a role.

Vi doesn't autoattack, she Qs in for a third of the camp's health, uses an aa as the medium for her E to clear the small fries, then for W to burn through the remaining third. Madred's proc really would only be a marginal part of her damage if she picked it up.

On July 19 2013 07:23 kainzero wrote:
Oh, so you want to put another sword in the game?

Why not Youmuu's Shuriken, or Kunai, or Kama, or even the War Fan, that's pretty cool...

Do you even Touhou?
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Prev 1 137 138 139 140 141 339 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
#49
RotterdaM897
TKL 377
IndyStarCraft 244
SteadfastSC206
BRAT_OK 164
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 897
TKL 361
IndyStarCraft 260
SteadfastSC 200
BRAT_OK 152
UpATreeSC 101
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4440
ggaemo 325
Hyun 68
Free 61
PianO 57
Sexy 46
Shinee 32
910 20
HiyA 14
GoRush 13
Dota 2
qojqva4899
BananaSlamJamma258
capcasts27
Counter-Strike
fl0m2174
byalli1679
pashabiceps1390
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King57
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor240
Other Games
Grubby4747
B2W.Neo1245
Beastyqt735
ceh9588
Sick242
KnowMe235
C9.Mang0212
Hui .141
mouzStarbuck107
Trikslyr51
MindelVK17
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV384
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream334
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 7
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 64
• kabyraGe 29
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix7
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV706
League of Legends
• Nemesis3777
Other Games
• imaqtpie1082
• Shiphtur230
• tFFMrPink 6
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5h 42m
Replay Cast
14h 42m
Afreeca Starleague
15h 42m
Leta vs YSC
GSL
1d 15h
Rogue vs Percival
Zoun vs Solar
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL
2 days
Cure vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs Bunny
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Escore
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
IPSL
4 days
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
BSL
6 days
IPSL
6 days
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W4
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W5
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.