• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 16:01
CET 22:01
KST 06:01
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational8SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)16Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7
StarCraft 2
General
Starcraft 2 will not be in the Esports World Cup herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey! SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list? When will we find out if there are more tournament
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC2 AI Tournament 2026
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone
Brood War
General
Which foreign pros are considered the best? [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BW General Discussion BW AKA finder tool Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Navigating the Risks and Rew…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1463 users

[Patch 3.09: Spirit Guard Udyr Patch] General Discussion -…

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 135 136 137 138 139 339 Next
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
July 18 2013 16:46 GMT
#2721
On July 19 2013 01:25 GTR wrote:
I find it quite funny that the top solo queue players on Korea are Mata and Marin (SKT sub).

Can't wait for players to pop up like Oscar, Hazard and Lampard -_-


Frank Lampard switched to league? Haha gotta love korea. IDs
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
July 18 2013 16:47 GMT
#2722
This joke went way over my head.
Vanka
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
China1336 Posts
July 18 2013 16:59 GMT
#2723
Kassidin is almost as valued a pick on the chinese server, for the record
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
July 18 2013 17:14 GMT
#2724
On July 19 2013 01:45 Alaric wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

When jungling I get the first blue, and pretty fast CDR after this, plus maxing Q means that I don't even really need to use E (gains me like 4-5s per camp with auto-ing all the little monsters) if I want to save mana.

Q with a lower CD means faster escapes/wall-jumps when I want to skirmish, invade, or just gank over walls (the way J4 does it bot going from purple side to river bush w/o being seen from the river for example: charged Q goes far enough to allow it), and if people blow flashes or dashes it's way easier to chase them down.

Plus it has very good base damage (340 at level 5 once charged, it's on the higher end for AoE with bonus AD ratio), so as long as I can hit it the burst when ganking is higher than when maxing E (you basically need to hit 2 Es to match the minimal damage increase per level compared to Q, which isn't always easy against flashes and slippery targets).

Based on this, even though Q's mana cost raises with levels the damage/mana ratio stays in max Q's favour (Qmax Q+E is around the same amount of damage as Emax Q+E+E, which is more mana).

I've been doing it since release, tried a bit of E max when I saw everyone else do it but after a few weeks/months most people I've seen do some kind of "at least 3 points in Q early, then either max it or directly mix W and E". Xj9 probably helped popularising it when he moved from E max to Q max a bit after his viewership exploded.

(For the record I max W second but it's because I like the burst potential and dps increase from having it maxed in the midgame, never did the maths, I just never feel constricted by E's cooldown because of the 20%+ CDR builds I use. Scip even uses CDR glyphs so he can tell you how he feels regarding her cooldowns.)

thats fucking awesome, im behind the times man.
what do you get for cd besides kindle?
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
July 18 2013 17:17 GMT
#2725
Me using CDR glyphs will tell you more about how much I value Magic resistance rather than how much I value CDR :p But yes, I do value CDR on Vi quite a bit. Like to get Lizard into Locket for some quick 30% CDR very much.
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-18 17:20:14
July 18 2013 17:19 GMT
#2726
On July 19 2013 01:28 GTR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2013 00:04 Scip wrote:
Worlds is going to be in the Americas right? If so, 0% chance I'll go there


Go to Gamescom in Cologne, EU Finals + Wildcard Tournament, and it's cheaper!

hmmm, the flight to europe is going to cost like, 100 euros when booked long in advance maybe? That would be affordable, if some goodhearted guy from Cologne would let me sleep in his house for free :D

Or I could take the 10hour bus. ouch.

I forgot I just posted something, that's why double post. LOL
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
July 18 2013 17:25 GMT
#2727
cant wait to go home and try some more cd oriented vi now. make some plays.
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
Kyrie
Profile Joined June 2013
1594 Posts
July 18 2013 17:34 GMT
#2728
apart from zyra and most ad carries, i cannot off the top of my head think of any champions on which cdr would be a bad buy. it's available in a wide variety of items and opens up huge gameplay opportunities, and i wonder why riot made the design choice of giving essentially everyone but ad carries native cdr scaling. perhaps to give other roles another way to compete with ad carry scalings?
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-18 17:46:30
July 18 2013 17:45 GMT
#2729
Heimer gets a bunch of CDR through his ult, too. He and Zyra probably wouldn't spit on some source of mana/mana regen given how spam-happy they can be (esp. with the reduced CDs) though, hence a possibility to build Grail.

On July 19 2013 02:14 ComaDose wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2013 01:45 Alaric wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

When jungling I get the first blue, and pretty fast CDR after this, plus maxing Q means that I don't even really need to use E (gains me like 4-5s per camp with auto-ing all the little monsters) if I want to save mana.

Q with a lower CD means faster escapes/wall-jumps when I want to skirmish, invade, or just gank over walls (the way J4 does it bot going from purple side to river bush w/o being seen from the river for example: charged Q goes far enough to allow it), and if people blow flashes or dashes it's way easier to chase them down.

Plus it has very good base damage (340 at level 5 once charged, it's on the higher end for AoE with bonus AD ratio), so as long as I can hit it the burst when ganking is higher than when maxing E (you basically need to hit 2 Es to match the minimal damage increase per level compared to Q, which isn't always easy against flashes and slippery targets).

Based on this, even though Q's mana cost raises with levels the damage/mana ratio stays in max Q's favour (Qmax Q+E is around the same amount of damage as Emax Q+E+E, which is more mana).

I've been doing it since release, tried a bit of E max when I saw everyone else do it but after a few weeks/months most people I've seen do some kind of "at least 3 points in Q early, then either max it or directly mix W and E". Xj9 probably helped popularising it when he moved from E max to Q max a bit after his viewership exploded.

(For the record I max W second but it's because I like the burst potential and dps increase from having it maxed in the midgame, never did the maths, I just never feel constricted by E's cooldown because of the 20%+ CDR builds I use. Scip even uses CDR glyphs so he can tell you how he feels regarding her cooldowns.)

thats fucking awesome, im behind the times man.
what do you get for cd besides kindle?

The Vi thread should hold answers to your questions. OP's mainly my views on the subjects since she isn't discussed much, though given her role her itemisation is pretty straightforward.

Look up the thread from the last few pages to find Scip's insight on item timings and how/why he builds her.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 18 2013 17:46 GMT
#2730
Adc with 6 items do more damage with auto attacks than with their spells.
liftlift > tsm
Kyrie
Profile Joined June 2013
1594 Posts
July 18 2013 17:50 GMT
#2731
Mages with 6 items do more damage with spells than with their auto attacks
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
July 18 2013 17:54 GMT
#2732
breaking this combo right away.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Kyrie
Profile Joined June 2013
1594 Posts
July 18 2013 17:58 GMT
#2733
but so much role analysis is being left unsaid
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
July 18 2013 18:03 GMT
#2734
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 18 2013 18:05 GMT
#2735
That new TF passive is so silly. Honestly, its hard to see how that makes him more or less balanced. Its just you don't get to snowball all the lanes for free now, just mid.
Freeeeeeedom
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35165 Posts
July 18 2013 18:11 GMT
#2736
I'd love to go to worlds, but too spensive to fly.
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
July 18 2013 18:14 GMT
#2737
On July 19 2013 02:34 Clinic wrote:
apart from zyra and most ad carries, i cannot off the top of my head think of any champions on which cdr would be a bad buy. it's available in a wide variety of items and opens up huge gameplay opportunities, and i wonder why riot made the design choice of giving essentially everyone but ad carries native cdr scaling. perhaps to give other roles another way to compete with ad carry scalings?

I can't think of any champs for which Health would be a bad buy either -- it's all about opportunity cost of the other stats you could have gotten. CDR and Health are basically the universally useful stats, which explains why Kindlegem is the most expensive way to buy CDR.

Although by no means horrible, CDR also tends to be weaker on energy champs (late-game ability use is gated more by energy than cooldowns) and Rumble (no amount of CDR will let you get around overheating). It's also weaker on champs with resets since the resets invalidate the need for CDR (although CDR might be nice if you fall behind and can't secure the resets every time). This only applies to fully resetting abilities, though: flat CD reductions tend to favor CDR a lot since the actual CDR will be much higher thanks to the flat CD reduction.
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
July 18 2013 18:15 GMT
#2738
On July 19 2013 02:46 wei2coolman wrote:
Adc Marksmen with 6 items do more damage with auto attacks than with their spells.

This feels soooo dirty.
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
July 18 2013 18:21 GMT
#2739
So, any bets on what they tag Teemo after the tag rework?

Marksman Mage?
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
July 18 2013 18:23 GMT
#2740
On July 19 2013 03:21 thenexusp wrote:
So, any bets on what they tag Teemo after the tag rework?

Marksman Mage?


They already said he is tagged with both Marksman and Mage.
Jaedong :3
Prev 1 135 136 137 138 139 339 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 13h 59m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 327
uThermal 259
OGKoka 254
UpATreeSC 139
ProTech128
JuggernautJason67
Livibee 61
goblin 16
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2160
Mini 215
Shuttle 207
EffOrt 161
Dewaltoss 127
actioN 110
Dota 2
Pyrionflax204
BananaSlamJamma188
LuMiX1
League of Legends
C9.Mang0161
Counter-Strike
fl0m4859
Fnx 1583
byalli1394
rGuardiaN70
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby3100
Liquid`Hasu435
Other Games
FrodaN2337
summit1g2236
Beastyqt987
B2W.Neo557
shahzam390
allub300
Harstem227
ArmadaUGS165
Fuzer 156
QueenE90
KnowMe66
ZombieGrub29
Mew2King8
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 22
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 77
• HeavenSC 42
• Reevou 8
• Kozan
• Laughngamez YouTube
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix9
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3653
League of Legends
• Nemesis2465
• TFBlade1781
Other Games
• imaqtpie6638
• Shiphtur244
Upcoming Events
RongYI Cup
13h 59m
ByuN vs TriGGeR
herO vs Rogue
OSC
13h 59m
herO vs Clem
Cure vs TBD
Solar vs TBD
Classic vs TBD
RongYI Cup
1d 13h
Clem vs ShoWTimE
Zoun vs Bunny
Big Brain Bouts
1d 19h
Serral vs TBD
RongYI Cup
2 days
SHIN vs Creator
Classic vs Percival
OSC
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
RongYI Cup
3 days
Maru vs Cyan
Solar vs Krystianer
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL 21
3 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
OSC
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-20
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.