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[Patch 3.09: Spirit Guard Udyr Patch] General Discussion -…

Forum Index > LoL General
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FR4CT4L
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Australia697 Posts
July 10 2013 12:05 GMT
#241
On July 10 2013 20:58 Dusty wrote:
To Zenon/Daniel:

Would it be too strong if by pressing R again you could change the direction of Lucian's ult? Even once/twice?


I was just thinking this when I pressed R and it cancelled instead

If nothing else is changed please do this one. It'd make Lucian 50% more baller at a minimum!
Veni, vidi, vici!
DanielZKlein
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1171 Posts
July 10 2013 12:06 GMT
#242
Dusty: we had the direction changing version in at one point. One version you could reactivate after 1.5s to pick a new direction, another version you could swing around immediately but he'd only alter direction slowly. Both of these, well, sucked ass.

Here's why: making a skill that is flawed and has tons of limitations and ways that it can fail enables you to make the best case of that skill SUPER impactful. Yes, you'll only get a perfect Culling once every 10 games, but boy is it going to feel AMAZING then. The more reliable you make a skill, the more you have to tone it down. I had a great conversation with Morello where he clued me into this, and as usual, he was 100% spot on. This is also why The Culling's cooldown is 50s at rank 3.
My modesty is awesome.
DanielZKlein
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1171 Posts
July 10 2013 12:10 GMT
#243
I see a LOT of incorrect numbers floating around. Here's the real deal:

HP: 390 (at level 0) + 80/level
Armor: 15 (+3)
MP: 230 (+41)
Attack range: 550.
Q: Base damage 80-240. Bonus AD scaling: 0.6-1.2. Cooldown 9-5. Mana cost 50-70 (nerfing to 60-80 next patch)
W: Base damage 60-220. Bonus AD scaling: 0.8 (nerfing to 0.6 next patch). Mana cost 60 flat. MS amount 40-60 (thinking about 40 flat). CD 14-10
E: CD 18-10. Mana cost 60-0.
R: AP ratio 0.4 (nerfing to 0.3 next patch). AD ratio 0.33 (nerfing to 0.3 next patch). Base damage 35/50/65. Number of shots = (AS * (2.5/3.0/3.5) + 2.5) * 3. CD 100/75/50. Mana cost 100 flat

Yay numbers!
My modesty is awesome.
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
July 10 2013 12:12 GMT
#244
Does Lucians W actually have a star shaped hitbox or is it just a circle with a star graphic just for da pretties?
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-10 12:28:55
July 10 2013 12:14 GMT
#245
Ooh, I didn't notice the scaling ratio on his Q. Afaik only Garen, Trundle and formerly Pantheon have/had that. Is there a particular reason for using them (or why we don't see them more)?
I have trouble getting the goal of a scaling total AD ratio instead of a bonus AD ratio when it comes to limiting earlygame power.

And still curious/obsessed over that star shape.

^ iirc Zenon said it was a shape "never seen before" so I'm assuming the hitbox is a star.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
JonGalt
Profile Joined February 2013
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
July 10 2013 12:23 GMT
#246
SotD actually looks really good on him. 100% crit on his passive proc will be really nice.

And his ult says it applies damage per shot, how does it interact with on-hit affects? I know you said it doesn't work with muramana, but is there anything it interacts with? Black Cleaver?
LiquidLegends StaffWho is Jon Galt?
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-10 12:28:59
July 10 2013 12:23 GMT
#247
Why hasn't Lucian been released yet?

A champion like Jayce allows you multiple ways to think about how to play him. What spells to use and what order to use them in: eg. If I want to escape while in hammer mode, I might Q to slow, E to knock back, transform and E for the speed.
If I want a kill, I might QE in cannon form(slower response from the opponent than EQ), activate W, transform, Q, W, auto *(4-7), then E. Stopping as soon as my original QE misses.

Orianna has interactions in the delay on her ult, and the position of the opponent, the distance of her ball from a target and its speed, the shield ball dealing damage on return, the speed boost, and slow, and damage on her W, and the interaction of letting balls sit on an initiating ally.

What options do you have when playing Lucian?

I've obviously never played or seen a Lucian so I'll reserve myself on the theorycrafting.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
DanielZKlein
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1171 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-10 12:24:54
July 10 2013 12:24 GMT
#248
Under the hood, Q is a 200 radius (very small) circle in the middle and two overlapping thin rectangles. TO THE MS PAINT MOBILE!

http://imgur.com/a5jP0Rt

I AM BAD AT PAINT!
My modesty is awesome.
FR4CT4L
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Australia697 Posts
July 10 2013 12:32 GMT
#249
Do you have the time to put together a scrolling shooter for the release? The way his ulti works reminds me of playing Ikaruga.
Veni, vidi, vici!
DanielZKlein
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1171 Posts
July 10 2013 12:37 GMT
#250
Man, I so wanted to move with WASD and fire at mouse position during ult, but they told me I couldn't do that because that's a different game ;P
My modesty is awesome.
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-10 12:39:00
July 10 2013 12:38 GMT
#251
I got a patch but can't buy the Udyr skin?
did i miss something. D:
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
DanielZKlein
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1171 Posts
July 10 2013 12:39 GMT
#252
Spirit Guard Udyr will be unlocked in a couple of days, once the patch is stable.
My modesty is awesome.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
July 10 2013 12:43 GMT
#253
On July 10 2013 21:23 obesechicken13 wrote:
What options do you have when playing Lucian?

Q isn't a skillshot: you target somebody (570 range), Lucian fires a piercing shot along the trajectory (1100), lets you snipe people from farther away, play on positioning, etc.

W is a skillshot marking enemies hit, popping a mark gives a flat MS buff. Depending on the animations you can use it on nearby minions to get a MS buff and run away/catch up to a running enemy, you can also mark him and another nearby, non-fleeing target, pop the mark on that one, use the MS buff to catch up to your initial target, pop his mark, and avoid being kited/compensate for escape abilities this way.

E is a dash similar to Graves' in range (and probably behaviour regarding walls) which cleanses slows from you. Keep it to escape? Use it to initiate a trade by getting in aa range and triggering your passive? Do I get to this Cait and take the free harass, or do I try to force her Net and use E to catch up and cleanse the slow so I can keep fighting since I beat her at short range?

R makes you point a direction (relative to your champ, picture it like a clock around him and he always fire to the same hour, it doesn't target a point on the ground like people believe) and rapid-fire shots (which stop at the first enemy, linear skillshot style) alongside it for 3 seconds. It's a channeled ability, but you can still move and use E without breaking the channel. If it kills an enemy champion, your E cooldown is refreshed.
Do you try to use it at the start of a fight for the strong burst? Do you keep it until everyone is low and there aren't minions/pets around to block shots, using ER to get in a squishy's face and bust it before Eing from target to target as they try to run? Do you use it against strong divers so you can damage them while running, without the risks of stutter-stepping?


Just because Jayce is an asshole with a kit riddled with broken numbers and sporting almost everything in the game doesn't mean people with less versatility don't have choice and opportunity costs in their kits.

Lucian seems pretty reliant on positioning overall (stay in range to use Q and trigger your passive, don't get too close or your ult is easy to dodge by jumping behind your back, use W marks for jukes and kiting, etc.) which in itself creates a bunch of little choices.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Lylat
Profile Joined August 2009
France8575 Posts
July 10 2013 12:52 GMT
#254
Neo keep getting trolled by Riot lolol
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12084 Posts
July 10 2013 13:03 GMT
#255
Mana buffs for Brand? Meaningful mana bufffs?

ZOMG YESSSSSSSS.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
July 10 2013 13:11 GMT
#256
On July 10 2013 21:39 DanielZKlein wrote:
Spirit Guard Udyr will be unlocked in a couple of days, once the patch is stable.


Wow. For the first time ever I can directly respond with RIOTPLS.

Really though, thanks for coming out and explaining all this! It's super helpful for all us immediately whiny and obsessively theorycrafting wackos.

More importantly, I think you've officially become a more frequent poster than Smash with just this. Congrats.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
DanielZKlein
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1171 Posts
July 10 2013 13:15 GMT
#257
BAM. Smashed the gizmo! :D

I <3 TL. It's a very special community, and while it can sometimes be short bus special, it's usually full of clueful people who ask good questions. I'm sure I fucked up in making Lucian, and I'm sure you guys will be the first to call me on it.
My modesty is awesome.
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
July 10 2013 13:15 GMT
#258
On July 10 2013 21:43 Alaric wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2013 21:23 obesechicken13 wrote:
What options do you have when playing Lucian?

Q isn't a skillshot: you target somebody (570 range), Lucian fires a piercing shot along the trajectory (1100), lets you snipe people from farther away, play on positioning, etc.

W is a skillshot marking enemies hit, popping a mark gives a flat MS buff. Depending on the animations you can use it on nearby minions to get a MS buff and run away/catch up to a running enemy, you can also mark him and another nearby, non-fleeing target, pop the mark on that one, use the MS buff to catch up to your initial target, pop his mark, and avoid being kited/compensate for escape abilities this way.

E is a dash similar to Graves' in range (and probably behaviour regarding walls) which cleanses slows from you. Keep it to escape? Use it to initiate a trade by getting in aa range and triggering your passive? Do I get to this Cait and take the free harass, or do I try to force her Net and use E to catch up and cleanse the slow so I can keep fighting since I beat her at short range?

R makes you point a direction (relative to your champ, picture it like a clock around him and he always fire to the same hour, it doesn't target a point on the ground like people believe) and rapid-fire shots (which stop at the first enemy, linear skillshot style) alongside it for 3 seconds. It's a channeled ability, but you can still move and use E without breaking the channel. If it kills an enemy champion, your E cooldown is refreshed.
Do you try to use it at the start of a fight for the strong burst? Do you keep it until everyone is low and there aren't minions/pets around to block shots, using ER to get in a squishy's face and bust it before Eing from target to target as they try to run? Do you use it against strong divers so you can damage them while running, without the risks of stutter-stepping?


Just because Jayce is an asshole with a kit riddled with broken numbers and sporting almost everything in the game doesn't mean people with less versatility don't have choice and opportunity costs in their kits.

Lucian seems pretty reliant on positioning overall (stay in range to use Q and trigger your passive, don't get too close or your ult is easy to dodge by jumping behind your back, use W marks for jukes and kiting, etc.) which in itself creates a bunch of little choices.


Lol, sorry to rain a bit on your information parade

1. Q is a line targeted skillshot, works similar to xerath Q
2. W marks are not consumed then you proc them, you can proc them for speed multiple times until they expire
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
July 10 2013 13:20 GMT
#259
On July 10 2013 21:37 DanielZKlein wrote:
Man, I so wanted to move with WASD and fire at mouse position during ult, but they told me I couldn't do that because that's a different game ;P

You played Smite at all?

On July 10 2013 22:15 DanielZKlein wrote:
BAM. Smashed the gizmo! :D

I <3 TL. It's a very special community, and while it can sometimes be short bus special, it's usually full of clueful people who ask good questions. I'm sure I fucked up in making Lucian, and I'm sure you guys will be the first to call me on it.

There's plenty of good theorycrafters around here, this community is pretty much the only thing that keeps me from quitting LoL altogether when I play.

That said, do you like Pokemon?
It's your boy Guzma!
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
July 10 2013 13:21 GMT
#260
Gute Arbeit Daniel, freu mich extrem auf den neuen Champion! :D
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