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On July 05 2013 05:07 elementz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 04:58 Amui wrote:On July 05 2013 04:52 Erasme wrote:On July 05 2013 04:36 theking1 wrote:On July 04 2013 21:18 evilfatsh1t wrote:On July 04 2013 19:25 theking1 wrote:@spikestarcraft so the fact that a moba resigns a contract with a company they already had a good contract with in the first placemakes you hate sc2  .Why can not you like sc2 for what it is . @Alexj Enlighten me a little bit.what is the difference between proleague and olympus champions beside different format?What will it bring to lol and how will it negatively impact sc2? @evilfatsh not you dota2 fans too.............why?what does this have to do with dota 2?You guys already have the 2 million dollar nexon thingy.How does negatively impact you...come on guys how doesnt it? we all know kespa is what makes koreans pro scenes so god damn pro. so what if we have a big tournament sponsored by nexon? whos gonna win it? "pro" korean teams that would get owned by any pro b team from china/eu? kespa was the best bet for all aspiring dota 2 progamers, and now that it has been ruled out dota players have no alternative but to play in teams that probably dont have the knowledge nor the experience required to become top level. considering the fact that china and eu started playing the game YEARS before koreans did, it just got infinitely harder for koreans to rival the chinese and the western community. dota 2 has a contract with gomtv which gave sc2 its greatest champions such as mvp,nestea,mma,drg,polt etc.only recently kespa went in the sc2 scene.gomtv champions are more than enough tackle any team in most esports.I would not be surprised if in 1 year kr teams start winning everything.And as for that matter the koreans did not even have a lol server and now they are dominating eu and na.Kespa is good but its not all that good.And many good lol teams such as mvp ozone although playing on ogn arent kespa affiliated. top korean dota teams are behind some eu/na pubstack. they wont do anything in a year People thought that about LoL too when season 1/WCG was still out and NA was dominating everything. One year to season 2, and top NA rarely took games, let alone series off top korean teams. Don't be surprised if in a year the Koreans are up there with the Chinese. Just a minor nitpick, EU won S1.
s1 doesn't have korea or any asians.
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I don't even play LoL but this is awesome news!
SC2 "ESPORTS" sure doing well! lolololol
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On July 05 2013 06:17 Thinasy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 05:55 Shinta) wrote:On July 04 2013 14:25 RiceAgainst wrote:
Mostly LoL but some points of discussion in relation to SC2:
-If teams like Najin/MVP (non-KeSPA teams) are allowed into KeSPA's LoL PL, then there's a chance ESF SC2 teams might also be allowed into PL
-(previously mentioned) 2 new KeSPA teams possibly extending over to SC2 also
-One of the new teams might be STX's team take over?
We dunno if the two "new" teams are gonna replace, actually be new, or even be part of SC2 also though. Nah this is impossible. If MVP and/or IM were to join KeSPA, then they wouldn't be able to play in GSTL anymore, and they wouldn't be eSF anymore. Other eSF teams wouldn't be allowed to play in SPL. I'm guessing that KeSPA teams are going to get LoL teams, and LoL teams are going to get SC2 teams? But not positive about that. As if GSTL has any weight though.
Completely besides the point? I don't have any idea why you decided to share that opinion.
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I'm somewhat surprised by the amount of people that think LoL doesn't have that many dedicated viewers. theOddOne and Voyboy consistently hit 30k+ viewers just streaming, LCS regularly breaks 150k viewers for a weekly four game show and that spikes up much higher for large tournaments. The OGN spring finals had ~900k IIRC across livestreams, which doesn't include the people watching it on TV/live in korea.
Don't hate on how "easy" LoL is to play until you actually try it. It might not require the APM of starcraft but it places much more emphasis on reaction time and team coordination. (I'm pretty decent at LoL, D4 which is approximately equivalent to top 5 masters or so in SC2)
Not particularly hard to see why kespa chose to add LoL though. It's a massive game in Korea and has a large audience across the world.
Edit:: Feel free to join the the discussion of LoL, pokemon, costco and other assorted topics in the LoL GD thread here
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=416737
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Football is the most popular sport because is cheap to play it. The same reason applies to LoL.
Still, despite that, we see tennis matches all around.
We can compare IRL sports with e-sports and you can conclude something like all the argument between lol and sc2.
After 3 years of sc2, we can conclude that sc2 is an individual e-sport. Every tournament we root for the player of our liking, we don't root for some team in particular. LOL, on the other hand, is a collective e-sport, just like football and tennis.
We are in 2013 and we still praise the way Federer plays tennis, or the way Barcelona plays football. We still root for Life and others still root for their favourite lol team.
Just deal with it, they are different disciplines (e-sports).
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On July 05 2013 06:41 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 06:01 udgnim wrote:On July 05 2013 04:58 Amui wrote:On July 05 2013 04:52 Erasme wrote:On July 05 2013 04:36 theking1 wrote:On July 04 2013 21:18 evilfatsh1t wrote:On July 04 2013 19:25 theking1 wrote:@spikestarcraft so the fact that a moba resigns a contract with a company they already had a good contract with in the first placemakes you hate sc2 .Why can not you like sc2 for what it is . @Alexj Enlighten me a little bit.what is the difference between proleague and olympus champions beside different format?What will it bring to lol and how will it negatively impact sc2? @evilfatsh not you dota2 fans too.............why?what does this have to do with dota 2?You guys already have the 2 million dollar nexon thingy.How does negatively impact you...come on guys how doesnt it? we all know kespa is what makes koreans pro scenes so god damn pro. so what if we have a big tournament sponsored by nexon? whos gonna win it? "pro" korean teams that would get owned by any pro b team from china/eu? kespa was the best bet for all aspiring dota 2 progamers, and now that it has been ruled out dota players have no alternative but to play in teams that probably dont have the knowledge nor the experience required to become top level. considering the fact that china and eu started playing the game YEARS before koreans did, it just got infinitely harder for koreans to rival the chinese and the western community. dota 2 has a contract with gomtv which gave sc2 its greatest champions such as mvp,nestea,mma,drg,polt etc.only recently kespa went in the sc2 scene.gomtv champions are more than enough tackle any team in most esports.I would not be surprised if in 1 year kr teams start winning everything.And as for that matter the koreans did not even have a lol server and now they are dominating eu and na.Kespa is good but its not all that good.And many good lol teams such as mvp ozone although playing on ogn arent kespa affiliated. top korean dota teams are behind some eu/na pubstack. they wont do anything in a year People thought that about LoL too when season 1/WCG was still out and NA was dominating everything. One year to season 2, and top NA rarely took games, let alone series off top korean teams. Don't be surprised if in a year the Koreans are up there with the Chinese. LoL is probably so established in Korea that when DotA 2 is officially released to the public that Korean DotA 2 teams won't receive the funding & infrastructure that accelerated Korean play skill in LoL so quickly I strongly believe that DotA 2 will not reach the same popularity of LoL anywhere in the world outside of China because Valve has been so slow in developing DotA 2 while Riot / LoL has been continually building a foothold in the MOBA space Of course LoL is established better everywhere... It's Riots cash cow and they are reinvesting some of the revenue into popularizing the game, which apparently is a huge sum of money. Their aggressive strategy works really well, despite the fact that the game itself is falsely called free and is not the best game ever made. Valve at the same time needs 3+ years to put all the heroes in the game... Not to create them. Just to copy them into the game - they are already created. I can't see how they can win that race.
Uh.... what? Sure, you get minor, temporary advantages if you pay for IP boosts, but everything that actually affects in-game play can be bought with IP...
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On July 05 2013 06:46 Lmui wrote:
Don't hate on how "easy" LoL is to play until you actually try it. It might not require the APM of starcraft but it places much more emphasis on reaction time and team coordination. (I'm pretty decent at LoL, D4 which is approximately equivalent to top 5 masters or so in SC2)
The thing is, when you compare it to DotA, it is easier to play IMHO (I've tried both). It's like sc2, everyone agree that compared to BW, the game is easier, I see no differences when it comes to LoL, it's an easier game to play compared to its predecessor. I can assure you that if the game wasn't easier to play, you wouldn't see that many people play it.
I'm not trying to start a debate here as to which game is better, I like both. It's just that I don't like the model of LoL when it comes to eSport. I mean, as an eSport game, everyone should be able to play everything in the game without having to do some endless farming of stupid IP or buy some RP for real money to unlock their favorite champions or buy some runes to get some small advantages. This is where I prefer DotA over LoL and why I think it's more suited for eSport. I see LoL like an MMO where you need to play a very big amount of time before being able to enjoy the "end-game" and as an eSport, I found this pretty stupid. If I want to learn to play like a pro, I can't just jump in and learn, I've got a lot of farming ahead of me before doing so.
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LoL in gwangalli beach? thats sounds depressing for every starcraft fan
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LoL proleague will probably thrive just like BW did for a couple of years.
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On July 04 2013 14:18 Erosive wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 14:14 Empirimancer wrote:
Sometimes I try to imagine how popular SC2 would be in Korea if it had been as accessible as Brood War in internet cafes and if bnet 2.0 had been well designed.
Then I get depressed and I think about something else.
Sometimes I try to imagine if Blizz dev team didn't make Starcraft 2 so noob friendly to keep the competitive level harsh just like BW. Surely a high percentage of Pro Koreans would've have switched to Starcraft 2 keeping the player base and viewer base the same to the new game.
LoL is more noob friendly than LoL. Different games and different audience. Also pro players who can not break into SC2 are trying LoL. Maybe we need more team leagues for SC2 to get more pro players noticed.
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On July 05 2013 08:42 EpicDemente wrote:LoL in gwangalli beach? thats sounds depressing for every starcraft sc2 fan
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On July 05 2013 06:46 Lmui wrote:I'm somewhat surprised by the amount of people that think LoL doesn't have that many dedicated viewers. theOddOne and Voyboy consistently hit 30k+ viewers just streaming, LCS regularly breaks 150k viewers for a weekly four game show and that spikes up much higher for large tournaments. The OGN spring finals had ~900k IIRC across livestreams, which doesn't include the people watching it on TV/live in korea. Don't hate on how "easy" LoL is to play until you actually try it. It might not require the APM of starcraft but it places much more emphasis on reaction time and team coordination. (I'm pretty decent at LoL, D4 which is approximately equivalent to top 5 masters or so in SC2) Not particularly hard to see why kespa chose to add LoL though. It's a massive game in Korea and has a large audience across the world. Edit:: Feel free to join the the discussion of LoL, pokemon, costco and other assorted topics in the LoL GD thread here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=416737
What? Does anybody actually think that LoL doesn't have a ton of viewers?
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On July 05 2013 08:46 hifriend wrote:
LoL proleague will probably thrive just like BW did for a couple of years over a decade.
Fixed.
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On July 05 2013 06:44 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 05:07 elementz wrote:On July 05 2013 04:58 Amui wrote:On July 05 2013 04:52 Erasme wrote:On July 05 2013 04:36 theking1 wrote:On July 04 2013 21:18 evilfatsh1t wrote:On July 04 2013 19:25 theking1 wrote:@spikestarcraft so the fact that a moba resigns a contract with a company they already had a good contract with in the first placemakes you hate sc2 .Why can not you like sc2 for what it is . @Alexj Enlighten me a little bit.what is the difference between proleague and olympus champions beside different format?What will it bring to lol and how will it negatively impact sc2? @evilfatsh not you dota2 fans too.............why?what does this have to do with dota 2?You guys already have the 2 million dollar nexon thingy.How does negatively impact you...come on guys how doesnt it? we all know kespa is what makes koreans pro scenes so god damn pro. so what if we have a big tournament sponsored by nexon? whos gonna win it? "pro" korean teams that would get owned by any pro b team from china/eu? kespa was the best bet for all aspiring dota 2 progamers, and now that it has been ruled out dota players have no alternative but to play in teams that probably dont have the knowledge nor the experience required to become top level. considering the fact that china and eu started playing the game YEARS before koreans did, it just got infinitely harder for koreans to rival the chinese and the western community. dota 2 has a contract with gomtv which gave sc2 its greatest champions such as mvp,nestea,mma,drg,polt etc.only recently kespa went in the sc2 scene.gomtv champions are more than enough tackle any team in most esports.I would not be surprised if in 1 year kr teams start winning everything.And as for that matter the koreans did not even have a lol server and now they are dominating eu and na.Kespa is good but its not all that good.And many good lol teams such as mvp ozone although playing on ogn arent kespa affiliated. top korean dota teams are behind some eu/na pubstack. they wont do anything in a year People thought that about LoL too when season 1/WCG was still out and NA was dominating everything. One year to season 2, and top NA rarely took games, let alone series off top korean teams. Don't be surprised if in a year the Koreans are up there with the Chinese. Just a minor nitpick, EU won S1. s1 doesn't have korea or any asians.
It had asian teams, did you forget about "Hotshotgg kick my brudda in the ass". Now the asian teams weren't very good however.
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On July 05 2013 04:58 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 04:52 Erasme wrote:On July 05 2013 04:36 theking1 wrote:On July 04 2013 21:18 evilfatsh1t wrote:On July 04 2013 19:25 theking1 wrote:@spikestarcraft so the fact that a moba resigns a contract with a company they already had a good contract with in the first placemakes you hate sc2 .Why can not you like sc2 for what it is . @Alexj Enlighten me a little bit.what is the difference between proleague and olympus champions beside different format?What will it bring to lol and how will it negatively impact sc2? @evilfatsh not you dota2 fans too.............why?what does this have to do with dota 2?You guys already have the 2 million dollar nexon thingy.How does negatively impact you...come on guys how doesnt it? we all know kespa is what makes koreans pro scenes so god damn pro. so what if we have a big tournament sponsored by nexon? whos gonna win it? "pro" korean teams that would get owned by any pro b team from china/eu? kespa was the best bet for all aspiring dota 2 progamers, and now that it has been ruled out dota players have no alternative but to play in teams that probably dont have the knowledge nor the experience required to become top level. considering the fact that china and eu started playing the game YEARS before koreans did, it just got infinitely harder for koreans to rival the chinese and the western community. dota 2 has a contract with gomtv which gave sc2 its greatest champions such as mvp,nestea,mma,drg,polt etc.only recently kespa went in the sc2 scene.gomtv champions are more than enough tackle any team in most esports.I would not be surprised if in 1 year kr teams start winning everything.And as for that matter the koreans did not even have a lol server and now they are dominating eu and na.Kespa is good but its not all that good.And many good lol teams such as mvp ozone although playing on ogn arent kespa affiliated. top korean dota teams are behind some eu/na pubstack. they wont do anything in a year People thought that about LoL too when season 1/WCG was still out and NA was dominating everything. One year to season 2, and top NA rarely took games, let alone series off top korean teams. Don't be surprised if in a year the Koreans are up there with the Chinese.
Are you seriously comparing na lol team and chinese dota team ?
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On July 05 2013 06:46 Lmui wrote:I'm somewhat surprised by the amount of people that think LoL doesn't have that many dedicated viewers. theOddOne and Voyboy consistently hit 30k+ viewers just streaming, LCS regularly breaks 150k viewers for a weekly four game show and that spikes up much higher for large tournaments. The OGN spring finals had ~900k IIRC across livestreams, which doesn't include the people watching it on TV/live in korea. Don't hate on how "easy" LoL is to play until you actually try it. It might not require the APM of starcraft but it places much more emphasis on reaction time and team coordination. (I'm pretty decent at LoL, D4 which is approximately equivalent to top 5 masters or so in SC2) Not particularly hard to see why kespa chose to add LoL though. It's a massive game in Korea and has a large audience across the world. Edit:: Feel free to join the the discussion of LoL, pokemon, costco and other assorted topics in the LoL GD thread here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=416737
2200 ELO player here, LoL is easy game.
But when people are talking about dedicated viewers, they probably meant relative to its size. A 200k concurrent viewership for top LoL tourney is impressive, but not that impressive when it has 30 million active players. That's 0.6% of its user base
It has alot of room to grow and attract more of its user base to its competitive scene, thats for sure. Thus far they are not hitting anywhere near its potential. And honestly I don't see much more room for LoL to grow in the NA scene, but it has a ton of room to grow in Asia.
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On July 05 2013 13:44 dooraven wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 06:44 iky43210 wrote:On July 05 2013 05:07 elementz wrote:On July 05 2013 04:58 Amui wrote:On July 05 2013 04:52 Erasme wrote:On July 05 2013 04:36 theking1 wrote:On July 04 2013 21:18 evilfatsh1t wrote:On July 04 2013 19:25 theking1 wrote:@spikestarcraft so the fact that a moba resigns a contract with a company they already had a good contract with in the first placemakes you hate sc2 .Why can not you like sc2 for what it is . @Alexj Enlighten me a little bit.what is the difference between proleague and olympus champions beside different format?What will it bring to lol and how will it negatively impact sc2? @evilfatsh not you dota2 fans too.............why?what does this have to do with dota 2?You guys already have the 2 million dollar nexon thingy.How does negatively impact you...come on guys how doesnt it? we all know kespa is what makes koreans pro scenes so god damn pro. so what if we have a big tournament sponsored by nexon? whos gonna win it? "pro" korean teams that would get owned by any pro b team from china/eu? kespa was the best bet for all aspiring dota 2 progamers, and now that it has been ruled out dota players have no alternative but to play in teams that probably dont have the knowledge nor the experience required to become top level. considering the fact that china and eu started playing the game YEARS before koreans did, it just got infinitely harder for koreans to rival the chinese and the western community. dota 2 has a contract with gomtv which gave sc2 its greatest champions such as mvp,nestea,mma,drg,polt etc.only recently kespa went in the sc2 scene.gomtv champions are more than enough tackle any team in most esports.I would not be surprised if in 1 year kr teams start winning everything.And as for that matter the koreans did not even have a lol server and now they are dominating eu and na.Kespa is good but its not all that good.And many good lol teams such as mvp ozone although playing on ogn arent kespa affiliated. top korean dota teams are behind some eu/na pubstack. they wont do anything in a year People thought that about LoL too when season 1/WCG was still out and NA was dominating everything. One year to season 2, and top NA rarely took games, let alone series off top korean teams. Don't be surprised if in a year the Koreans are up there with the Chinese. Just a minor nitpick, EU won S1. s1 doesn't have korea or any asians. It had asian teams, did you forget about "Hotshotgg kick my brudda in the ass". Now the asian teams weren't very good however.
I don't think Asians in US count. I don't think LoL was even released in Taiwan/China/Korea back in season 1
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On July 05 2013 09:15 Sufinsil wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 14:18 Erosive wrote:On July 04 2013 14:14 Empirimancer wrote:
Sometimes I try to imagine how popular SC2 would be in Korea if it had been as accessible as Brood War in internet cafes and if bnet 2.0 had been well designed.
Then I get depressed and I think about something else.
Sometimes I try to imagine if Blizz dev team didn't make Starcraft 2 so noob friendly to keep the competitive level harsh just like BW. Surely a high percentage of Pro Koreans would've have switched to Starcraft 2 keeping the player base and viewer base the same to the new game. LoL is more noob friendly than LoL. Different games and different audience. Also pro players who can not break into SC2 are trying LoL. Maybe we need more team leagues for SC2 to get more pro players noticed.
It's... more noob friendly than itself? It's that noob friendly? o.0
BTW all the fucking people asking why this is in SC2 general need to learn to read the damn thread, I think I saw it explained about 3 times yet at least 20 asked why.
Personally I don't think this is awful, LoL isn't a bad game (I don't personally play it because I swapped to Dota 2 once I got a key). I just really hope that SPL remains and that we get LGIM and MVP joining in on the SC2PL.
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On July 05 2013 16:32 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 13:44 dooraven wrote:On July 05 2013 06:44 iky43210 wrote:On July 05 2013 05:07 elementz wrote:On July 05 2013 04:58 Amui wrote:On July 05 2013 04:52 Erasme wrote:On July 05 2013 04:36 theking1 wrote:On July 04 2013 21:18 evilfatsh1t wrote:On July 04 2013 19:25 theking1 wrote:@spikestarcraft so the fact that a moba resigns a contract with a company they already had a good contract with in the first placemakes you hate sc2 .Why can not you like sc2 for what it is . @Alexj Enlighten me a little bit.what is the difference between proleague and olympus champions beside different format?What will it bring to lol and how will it negatively impact sc2? @evilfatsh not you dota2 fans too.............why?what does this have to do with dota 2?You guys already have the 2 million dollar nexon thingy.How does negatively impact you...come on guys how doesnt it? we all know kespa is what makes koreans pro scenes so god damn pro. so what if we have a big tournament sponsored by nexon? whos gonna win it? "pro" korean teams that would get owned by any pro b team from china/eu? kespa was the best bet for all aspiring dota 2 progamers, and now that it has been ruled out dota players have no alternative but to play in teams that probably dont have the knowledge nor the experience required to become top level. considering the fact that china and eu started playing the game YEARS before koreans did, it just got infinitely harder for koreans to rival the chinese and the western community. dota 2 has a contract with gomtv which gave sc2 its greatest champions such as mvp,nestea,mma,drg,polt etc.only recently kespa went in the sc2 scene.gomtv champions are more than enough tackle any team in most esports.I would not be surprised if in 1 year kr teams start winning everything.And as for that matter the koreans did not even have a lol server and now they are dominating eu and na.Kespa is good but its not all that good.And many good lol teams such as mvp ozone although playing on ogn arent kespa affiliated. top korean dota teams are behind some eu/na pubstack. they wont do anything in a year People thought that about LoL too when season 1/WCG was still out and NA was dominating everything. One year to season 2, and top NA rarely took games, let alone series off top korean teams. Don't be surprised if in a year the Koreans are up there with the Chinese. Just a minor nitpick, EU won S1. s1 doesn't have korea or any asians. It had asian teams, did you forget about "Hotshotgg kick my brudda in the ass". Now the asian teams weren't very good however. I don't think Asians in US count. I don't think LoL was even released in Taiwan/China/Korea back in season 1 '
Those weren't asians in the US. Xan and Team Pacific were from the Phillipines and Singapore. They were not very good though and nothing compared to current korean/chinese teams
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T_T I was hoping for good news with SC2... This isn't bad news but indirectly indicates Kespa moving away from SC2 =S
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EPT
