EPTwarwick has free sustain
udyr has basically free sustasin
irelia has free sustain
the only issue you guys are having is the amount of healinghe gets
AKA THE NUMBERS NOT THE DESIGN
I REST MY CASE
[Patch 3.08: Aatrox Patch] General Discussion - Page 73
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
warwick has free sustain udyr has basically free sustasin irelia has free sustain the only issue you guys are having is the amount of healinghe gets AKA THE NUMBERS NOT THE DESIGN I REST MY CASE | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
He is probably a strong duellist with his kit but I question how useful it is in a world of lane swaps. Hm. His Q does set up ganks nicely though. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On June 16 2013 06:25 Sandster wrote: I don't hate him b/c he's resourceless. I hate him because his sustain is 100% active when attacking, at no cost and no cooldown. I also hate him because he'll revive with up to half hp no matter what you do. see my above post free sustain thats 100% active when attacking is nothing unique its called lifesteal and lots of champs have it built in | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 16 2013 06:24 Slayer91 wrote: nasus has free sustain warwick has free sustain udyr has basically free sustasin irelia has free sustain the only issue you guys are having is the amount of healinghe gets AKA THE NUMBERS NOT THE DESIGN I REST MY CASE The only pertinent example is Udyr, old udyr when turtle returned mana. Because his HP bar AND his resource bar are restored at once. On June 16 2013 06:23 Scip wrote: Or maybe there are particular timings when he is strong and impossible to push out of lane and others where he is vulnarable to an allin and is zoned in return? I don't really understand what is this hatred for resourceless champions, they are still restrained by range and cooldown, and they promote a very aggresive playstyle. They are nearly impossible to punish for that aggression if they don't screw up though. Thats the trouble. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
He's resourceless with free sustain. All the ones you quoted have mana to manage, so even if they are 100% hp but oom they can be pushed out of lane. Tell me how you would balance Irelia or Warwick if they had no mana bar and were 100% cooldown based. | ||
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SoulSever
Canada779 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On June 16 2013 06:29 Sandster wrote: He's resourceless with free sustain. All the ones you quoted have mana to manage, so even if they are 100% hp but oom they can be pushed out of lane. Tell me how you would balance Irelia or Warwick if they had no mana bar and were 100% cooldown based. vladimir irelia also has relatively few mana problems and warwicks q is batshit crazy and its effectively his only mana cost | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
Who is also a shit design, and one they've openly admitted to as being almost impossible to balance. Great example. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Aatrox who has to melee autoattack to lifesteal or Nidalee who needs to wait for her mana to regen so she can heal herself with no risk and no counterplay | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On June 16 2013 06:31 Slayer91 wrote: vladimir irelia also has relatively few mana problems and warwicks q is batshit crazy and its effectively his only mana cost Isn't Vlad the guy that they say they wish they never made and how they won't make something like him again? Meh I don't think Aatrox is that bad, i just hate revive mechanics. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On June 16 2013 06:31 Sandster wrote: Who is also a shit design, and one they've openly admitted to as being almost impossible to balance. Great example. vladimir is ranged though this guy has to melee attack creeps to sustain which is pretty much as vulnerable as you're going to get i have no idea why you just add resourceless champ +natural lifesteal and combine them and act like its a no brainer that its bad design even though theres no evidence at all that its op and even vladimir who they said is impossible to balance really isnt in a terrible place | ||
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Gahlo
United States35154 Posts
On June 16 2013 05:47 Slayer91 wrote: jax is also a weak chaser but he has 2 insanely strong tank steriods (e counts as 1 lategame because ads do so much) and a 5 second gap closer is considered a weak chaser these days lol Leap Strike is bad, doesn't refresh on kill or assist. Jax is trash. On June 16 2013 05:50 Slayer91 wrote: why is his design bad? the idea is a lifesteal tank what irelia was supposed to be but riot had no idea how to make a viable not cc based melee to be effective at the top level so they gave her everything Except his design isn't intended to be a tank but a "light fighter" as Morello put it. Irellia was designed to be an assassin. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
what matters is you need to stay in the fight a long time because you have very little burst and your DPS isn't among the best either so your main strength is your lifesteal/ga passive very similar to warwick because mana problems are out the window past laning phase warwick has more utility and base damage, but his scaling is slightly worse On June 16 2013 06:31 Scip wrote: What is more interesting as far as design goes Aatrox who has to melee autoattack to lifesteal or Nidalee who needs to wait for her mana to regen so she can heal herself with no risk and no counterplay + you can buy tear or get bluebuff and be effectively resourceless broken by design imo | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On June 16 2013 04:22 WaveofShadow wrote: I'll duo with you later tonight if you're around. I can only stand so much ARAM. Just know I'll be even shittier than usual due to computer and whatnot. Wowow you jerk | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On June 16 2013 06:35 Slayer91 wrote: light fighter, tank, its just terminology what matters is you need to stay in the fight a long time because you have very little burst and your DPS isn't among the best either so your main strength is your lifesteal/ga passive very similar to warwick because mana problems are out the window past laning phase warwick has more utility and base damage, but his scaling is slightly worse Great. Then give him mana to manage during laning phase in exchange for sustain. Or attach a cooldown to it. Problem solved. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
His passive is sort of annoying but it just functions like a GA. After he revives he has no bonus aspd so he will not be nearly as effective so he won't accomplish that much. Aatrox without the bonus aspd or ult range is imo really really bad lategame. I still think he's pretty strong for a melee DPS but not as good as say, Pantheon. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 16 2013 06:32 Slayer91 wrote: vladimir is ranged though this guy has to melee attack creeps to sustain which is pretty much as vulnerable as you're going to get i have no idea why you just add resourceless champ +natural lifesteal and combine them and act like its a no brainer that its bad design even though theres no evidence at all that its op and even vladimir who they said is impossible to balance really isnt in a terrible place Dude, there is no evidence that these kinds of champions are balanced long term. Small changes in the meta, or nerfs/buffs to other champions drastically swing the power of certain manaless champs in LOL moreso than any other class. See the recent Kennen/Vlad resurgence. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Kind of awesome. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On June 16 2013 06:39 cLutZ wrote: Dude, there is no evidence that these kinds of champions are balanced long term. Small changes in the meta, or nerfs/buffs to other champions drastically swing the power of certain manaless champs in LOL moreso than any other class. See the recent Kennen/Vlad resurgence. now remove the words "manaless" and your statement doesnt change at all. On June 16 2013 06:38 Sandster wrote: Great. Then give him mana to manage during laning phase in exchange for sustain. Or attach a cooldown to it. Problem solved. what problem? you are convinced theres a problem, that he can lifesteal to full hp and while another champ can also lifesteal to full hp without using any mana but because he doesnt need mana he's broken? doesnt make any real sense | ||
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