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On July 03 2013 06:08 cLutZ wrote:
Cus they have very niche/unique playstyles and said style changes drastically during different parts of the game.
Its like going from playing Alistar to Janna at the 20 minute mark.
I'd love to switch from Ali/Taric after 20 minutes to playing Janna. Can this be a thing?
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United States47024 Posts
GP really isn't a fantastic lategame hero though, so I don't know why you'd compare their lategame usefulness. Just cuz he has a farming skill doesn't make him automatically good lategame.
This is also part of why Muramana on GP didn't make much sense to me, because IMO he's not a champ that wants to hit a timing so late that he needs a fully stacked Muramana. IMO, GP's power peak is level 9-11 with your first major item where maxed Raise Morale gives an AD-focused team a strong push/teamfight timing because of how good the AD/MS buff is at that level. In a really drawn out game, a +AD buff is probably weaker than a +AS buff because early game, champs lack AD while later on they tend to have more AD itemization and have a greater demand for AS.
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On July 03 2013 06:02 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 05:59 nafta wrote:On July 03 2013 05:57 Shikyo wrote:On July 03 2013 05:51 Shelke14 wrote:On July 03 2013 05:38 Shikyo wrote:
Okay, more empiric evidence:
Go 1-6-1 as Pantheon in lane vs Malphite, get 0 ganks off total. Team at half the kills of enemy. Enter teamfights, get 2 delayed pentas in teamfights, end 13-8-13, victory.
So screw nonbelievers. Pantheon lategame is way too good for you to "beat him" by "staying alive".
And yes every high elo streamer I've seen play Pantheon plays him completely wrong lategame.
btw this isn't meant as bragging, I'm trying to make a point.
No one believes me though <.<; While Panth's late game usefulness was brought up, isn't the debate suppose to be about GP vs Panth in lane? Sure, you are making a fair point on panth being good for you late game in your league but the original discussion is GP can beat panth if you change up the style and max W. The point they are making about GP vs Pantheon in lane is: "GP can survive by spamming pots and last hitting from a distance, missing numerous minions and being behind so he wins lane". I disagree completely, as even if that was possible(I forced a full armor malphite off the lane just last game and killed him under turret), I believe that Pantheon is far stronger than Gangplank mid/lategame so he needs to do far better than "being able to farm a little" to even come close to winning. Hence I need to establish Pantheon's lategame being good. How is pantheon a lot stronger?Unless they randomly decide to completely ignore you pant can't do shit.GP gives a decent engage and that's more than what pant has to offer.All your damage is you standing still and them not moving or randomly letting you use your more than obvious jump. Nafta, honey, GP ult is at most as good as Panth's. Panth ult is an AoE 1k magic damage nuke slow, and it allows him to directly be where he wants in a teamfight. Pantheon IS very underestimated in teamfights if you play him properly, and brings a lot to the table. It's just like Karma, there is some form of taboo thinking those characters are good in the LoL community, and I don't really get why.
dunno dude, judging from your matchhistory all you do is feed with karma, even in the games you won.
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On July 03 2013 06:06 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 06:02 mr_tolkien wrote:On July 03 2013 05:59 nafta wrote:On July 03 2013 05:57 Shikyo wrote:On July 03 2013 05:51 Shelke14 wrote:On July 03 2013 05:38 Shikyo wrote:
Okay, more empiric evidence:
Go 1-6-1 as Pantheon in lane vs Malphite, get 0 ganks off total. Team at half the kills of enemy. Enter teamfights, get 2 delayed pentas in teamfights, end 13-8-13, victory.
So screw nonbelievers. Pantheon lategame is way too good for you to "beat him" by "staying alive".
And yes every high elo streamer I've seen play Pantheon plays him completely wrong lategame.
btw this isn't meant as bragging, I'm trying to make a point.
No one believes me though <.<; While Panth's late game usefulness was brought up, isn't the debate suppose to be about GP vs Panth in lane? Sure, you are making a fair point on panth being good for you late game in your league but the original discussion is GP can beat panth if you change up the style and max W. The point they are making about GP vs Pantheon in lane is: "GP can survive by spamming pots and last hitting from a distance, missing numerous minions and being behind so he wins lane". I disagree completely, as even if that was possible(I forced a full armor malphite off the lane just last game and killed him under turret), I believe that Pantheon is far stronger than Gangplank mid/lategame so he needs to do far better than "being able to farm a little" to even come close to winning. Hence I need to establish Pantheon's lategame being good. How is pantheon a lot stronger?Unless they randomly decide to completely ignore you pant can't do shit.GP gives a decent engage and that's more than what pant has to offer.All your damage is you standing still and them not moving or randomly letting you use your more than obvious jump. Nafta, honey, GP ult is at most as good as Panth's. Panth ult is an AoE 1k magic damage nuke slow, and it allows him to directly be where he wants in a teamfight. Pantheon IS very underestimated in teamfights if you play him properly, and brings a lot to the table. It's just like Karma, there is some form of taboo thinking those characters are good in the LoL community, and I don't really get why. I have never seen a pant actually do something unless people give him multiple kills for absolutely no reason early.I don't think he is good because that's what I have seen and just looking at his kit I don't see the lategame power lol. GP at least offers instant huge aoe slow a slight speedup and yeah not much more but it still is more. I played karma mid s1 and s2 pls.
Heartseeker Strike at max items is 1400 AoE physical dmg with 600 range and 6s base cooldown.
You don't see it?
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On July 02 2013 17:22 swim224 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 16:49 HazMat wrote:
So I found out why my chat wasn't showing up in replays and when I was spectating. If you move your chat to the left side of your screen (I do this so it's above my minimap since my minimap is inverted) it won't show up. I have no idea why... I guess the chat is automatically moved to the left in replays and when you're spectating so it moves it off the screen if it's initially on the left?
Idk Riot should look into it :3 Wait, is this if you move your minimap anywhere on the left side of the minimap, or only just above the minimap? I"m having the same problem you had.
I think anywhere on the left.
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On July 03 2013 06:15 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 06:02 mr_tolkien wrote:On July 03 2013 05:59 nafta wrote:On July 03 2013 05:57 Shikyo wrote:On July 03 2013 05:51 Shelke14 wrote:On July 03 2013 05:38 Shikyo wrote:
Okay, more empiric evidence:
Go 1-6-1 as Pantheon in lane vs Malphite, get 0 ganks off total. Team at half the kills of enemy. Enter teamfights, get 2 delayed pentas in teamfights, end 13-8-13, victory.
So screw nonbelievers. Pantheon lategame is way too good for you to "beat him" by "staying alive".
And yes every high elo streamer I've seen play Pantheon plays him completely wrong lategame.
btw this isn't meant as bragging, I'm trying to make a point.
No one believes me though <.<; While Panth's late game usefulness was brought up, isn't the debate suppose to be about GP vs Panth in lane? Sure, you are making a fair point on panth being good for you late game in your league but the original discussion is GP can beat panth if you change up the style and max W. The point they are making about GP vs Pantheon in lane is: "GP can survive by spamming pots and last hitting from a distance, missing numerous minions and being behind so he wins lane". I disagree completely, as even if that was possible(I forced a full armor malphite off the lane just last game and killed him under turret), I believe that Pantheon is far stronger than Gangplank mid/lategame so he needs to do far better than "being able to farm a little" to even come close to winning. Hence I need to establish Pantheon's lategame being good. How is pantheon a lot stronger?Unless they randomly decide to completely ignore you pant can't do shit.GP gives a decent engage and that's more than what pant has to offer.All your damage is you standing still and them not moving or randomly letting you use your more than obvious jump. Nafta, honey, GP ult is at most as good as Panth's. Panth ult is an AoE 1k magic damage nuke slow, and it allows him to directly be where he wants in a teamfight. Pantheon IS very underestimated in teamfights if you play him properly, and brings a lot to the table. It's just like Karma, there is some form of taboo thinking those characters are good in the LoL community, and I don't really get why. dunno dude, judging from your matchhistory all you do is feed with karma, even in the games you won.
That's :
1) Really relevant to this discussion
2) Pretty false since I sport a 2.4 KDA on her, which is pretty far from feeding to my knowledge
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On July 03 2013 06:09 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 06:08 cLutZ wrote:
Cus they have very niche/unique playstyles and said style changes drastically during different parts of the game.
Its like going from playing Alistar to Janna at the 20 minute mark. I'd love to switch from Ali/Taric after 20 minutes to playing Janna. Can this be a thing?
LOL. New custom game mode: Re-draft champs at the 20 min mark. Interesting how that would work.
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On July 03 2013 06:19 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 06:06 nafta wrote:On July 03 2013 06:02 mr_tolkien wrote:On July 03 2013 05:59 nafta wrote:On July 03 2013 05:57 Shikyo wrote:On July 03 2013 05:51 Shelke14 wrote:On July 03 2013 05:38 Shikyo wrote:
Okay, more empiric evidence:
Go 1-6-1 as Pantheon in lane vs Malphite, get 0 ganks off total. Team at half the kills of enemy. Enter teamfights, get 2 delayed pentas in teamfights, end 13-8-13, victory.
So screw nonbelievers. Pantheon lategame is way too good for you to "beat him" by "staying alive".
And yes every high elo streamer I've seen play Pantheon plays him completely wrong lategame.
btw this isn't meant as bragging, I'm trying to make a point.
No one believes me though <.<; While Panth's late game usefulness was brought up, isn't the debate suppose to be about GP vs Panth in lane? Sure, you are making a fair point on panth being good for you late game in your league but the original discussion is GP can beat panth if you change up the style and max W. The point they are making about GP vs Pantheon in lane is: "GP can survive by spamming pots and last hitting from a distance, missing numerous minions and being behind so he wins lane". I disagree completely, as even if that was possible(I forced a full armor malphite off the lane just last game and killed him under turret), I believe that Pantheon is far stronger than Gangplank mid/lategame so he needs to do far better than "being able to farm a little" to even come close to winning. Hence I need to establish Pantheon's lategame being good. How is pantheon a lot stronger?Unless they randomly decide to completely ignore you pant can't do shit.GP gives a decent engage and that's more than what pant has to offer.All your damage is you standing still and them not moving or randomly letting you use your more than obvious jump. Nafta, honey, GP ult is at most as good as Panth's. Panth ult is an AoE 1k magic damage nuke slow, and it allows him to directly be where he wants in a teamfight. Pantheon IS very underestimated in teamfights if you play him properly, and brings a lot to the table. It's just like Karma, there is some form of taboo thinking those characters are good in the LoL community, and I don't really get why. I have never seen a pant actually do something unless people give him multiple kills for absolutely no reason early.I don't think he is good because that's what I have seen and just looking at his kit I don't see the lategame power lol. GP at least offers instant huge aoe slow a slight speedup and yeah not much more but it still is more. I played karma mid s1 and s2 pls. Heartseeker Strike at max items is 1400 AoE physical dmg with 600 range and 6s base cooldown. You don't see it?
Yes because this is a channeled ability.You need aoe cc from your team for it to actually be useful.And if your team has aoe cc why not pick riven for example and do more damage anyway?
Not to mention that her laning is stronger anyway.
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OH SHIT I was smurfing and I got this gem from a feeding Riven :
«I'M STILL VIRGIN BECAUSE OF THIS FUCKING GAME AND I CAN'T EVEN REACH PLATINIUM»
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On July 03 2013 06:23 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 06:19 Shikyo wrote:On July 03 2013 06:06 nafta wrote:On July 03 2013 06:02 mr_tolkien wrote:On July 03 2013 05:59 nafta wrote:On July 03 2013 05:57 Shikyo wrote:On July 03 2013 05:51 Shelke14 wrote:On July 03 2013 05:38 Shikyo wrote:
Okay, more empiric evidence:
Go 1-6-1 as Pantheon in lane vs Malphite, get 0 ganks off total. Team at half the kills of enemy. Enter teamfights, get 2 delayed pentas in teamfights, end 13-8-13, victory.
So screw nonbelievers. Pantheon lategame is way too good for you to "beat him" by "staying alive".
And yes every high elo streamer I've seen play Pantheon plays him completely wrong lategame.
btw this isn't meant as bragging, I'm trying to make a point.
No one believes me though <.<; While Panth's late game usefulness was brought up, isn't the debate suppose to be about GP vs Panth in lane? Sure, you are making a fair point on panth being good for you late game in your league but the original discussion is GP can beat panth if you change up the style and max W. The point they are making about GP vs Pantheon in lane is: "GP can survive by spamming pots and last hitting from a distance, missing numerous minions and being behind so he wins lane". I disagree completely, as even if that was possible(I forced a full armor malphite off the lane just last game and killed him under turret), I believe that Pantheon is far stronger than Gangplank mid/lategame so he needs to do far better than "being able to farm a little" to even come close to winning. Hence I need to establish Pantheon's lategame being good. How is pantheon a lot stronger?Unless they randomly decide to completely ignore you pant can't do shit.GP gives a decent engage and that's more than what pant has to offer.All your damage is you standing still and them not moving or randomly letting you use your more than obvious jump. Nafta, honey, GP ult is at most as good as Panth's. Panth ult is an AoE 1k magic damage nuke slow, and it allows him to directly be where he wants in a teamfight. Pantheon IS very underestimated in teamfights if you play him properly, and brings a lot to the table. It's just like Karma, there is some form of taboo thinking those characters are good in the LoL community, and I don't really get why. I have never seen a pant actually do something unless people give him multiple kills for absolutely no reason early.I don't think he is good because that's what I have seen and just looking at his kit I don't see the lategame power lol. GP at least offers instant huge aoe slow a slight speedup and yeah not much more but it still is more. I played karma mid s1 and s2 pls. Heartseeker Strike at max items is 1400 AoE physical dmg with 600 range and 6s base cooldown. You don't see it? Yes because this is a channeled ability.You need aoe cc from your team for it to actually be useful.And if your team has aoe cc why not pick riven for example and do more damage anyway? Not to mention that her laning is stronger anyway.
0.75s channeling?
Do you need AoE CC by your team for your ranged ADC to land 2 autos?
....
I don't feel like wasting my time with "riven has stronger laning phase than pantheon" as apparently you don't really know how the champion works
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This GP vs. Pantheon discussion has really gotten dumb.
I honestly can't remember the last time I've seen either of them in an actual game.
Just saying.
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On July 03 2013 06:38 Ketara wrote:
This GP vs. Pantheon discussion has really gotten dumb.
I honestly can't remember the last time I've seen either of them in an actual game.
Just saying.
Not only do I not remember seeing either of them, I don't even remember ever seeing them fight each other.
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On July 03 2013 04:35 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 04:30 mr_tolkien wrote:On July 03 2013 04:26 xMiragex wrote:
I haven't played pantheon but it sounds like popular opinion on him is suffering from nasus syndrome where people said he was only a Q bot and needed a gap closer.. And then Nasus was so OP he needed a nerf. Panth is really strong atm, he's just out of flavor. Well Nasus wither was always brokenly OP after they changed how tenacity works with it. His ulti was also quite strong. The only issue was that Nasus was utterly terrible in every other aspect until all his small buffs added up. Although I suspect Nasus could very likely have been a competitive pick much earlier if pros were more willing to experiment. Wither really was that strong. Imo, patch V1.0.0.123 (Skarner patch) was the patch that made him viable. It just wasn't until the S3 buffs when people discovered that Nasus was a champion.
nasus was never utterly terrible, people just overrated played champs and underrate the rest
the mana buff on q helped, but really he was playable just nobody tried (cept skyyart who raped)
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But Pantheon is really annoying/dangerous. GP.... well....
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I do remember about Skyyart. But that's quite a long time ago now.
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Pantheon is OP in arams. Nerf plz
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I never understood why Panth was so strong in ARAM, but hey that's just me.
Go Critplank, Parrley for infinite damage lulz. But the thing is if GP gets in melee range he starts stacking his passive and does tons of damage.
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Then the enemy team spends two seconds focusing you and you're dead... :\
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On July 03 2013 06:38 Ketara wrote:
This GP vs. Pantheon discussion has really gotten dumb.
I honestly can't remember the last time I've seen either of them in an actual game.
Just saying.
Before they nerfed SotEL I was running panth top and rushing that to pretty good success
He's still really strong if you get a neutral or counterpick lane.
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yo, aura GP is legit. I just use Q to get the $$$$$$$. If you're pro and can noscope critshot the enemy laner, gg ez game. Build is boots of mobility with captain enhancement so your team knows who's boss, into elisa's miracle so you get op mana/hp regen so always eating never dying. After this core you get BANNER OF COMMAND to make your teams creeps go fast and kill faster (bonus points if elise or anyone else with creeps on team), then you get instant bulwark cause too much swag for silver shields. Don't forget your zeke's herald and lockets. After you get all these items, get the CROWN OF KINGS to claim your place as #1 and lead the amove into their base.
+ Show Spoiler +
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