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[Patch 3.08: Aatrox Patch] General Discussion - Page 286

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Interested in helping start an on-topic, serious League discussion thread? PM Neo to talk about how to get started.
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
July 02 2013 07:04 GMT
#5701
On July 02 2013 15:12 kainzero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 14:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
On July 02 2013 13:55 onlywonderboy wrote:
On July 02 2013 13:51 kainzero wrote:
On July 02 2013 13:07 Ketara wrote:
It is so sad to me to see this argument again.

"Lets all play League of Legends! Yeah! We like it so much we'll spend hours of our time talking about it on forums!"

"By the way, the design team is shit and none of them know what they're doing!"

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.

So?
There are a lot of games with "accidental" mechanics that turned out to be a lot of fun. The best example I can think of is Smash Melee.

From Season 2 to Season 3, with all the tinkering they did, I really can't say I enjoy the game much more than before, nor can I say that I enjoy it any less either.

If we want to keep it in the realm of MOBAs (or whatever your preferred acronym is) creep stacking and pulling camps into lane in Dota was unintended.


I think that's one of the fundamental differences between Dota and LoL, in Dota something that's unintended is usually readily embraced as long as its not game-breaking wheras in LoL playing the game outside of the "intended" box usually leads to a pretty swift nerf, the first cases that come to mind are AP yi and AP trynd

It depends.

Ward jumping?

didnt they try to remove it from the game at one point but people opposed against this change and riot decided to leave it?
Xevious
Profile Joined February 2011
United States2086 Posts
July 02 2013 07:07 GMT
#5702
hey does anyone know how i could find out my twitch.tv email associated with the account "skarnoldtrump"? i dont remember which email i used for it and i reset the password so i need the email
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
July 02 2013 07:09 GMT
#5703
Random thought, why not pure tank Annie jungle like Zac? Obviously the no sustain sucks, but you get up to 60 MR and Armor from the E, and have ass tons of CC.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
July 02 2013 07:12 GMT
#5704
On July 02 2013 15:35 sylverfyre wrote:
The only unintended thing that I can think of which was nerfed was Thresh flashing while casting his hook. But really, are you going to complain that they are nerfing Thresh? (Remember, other skills with windup didn't let you do this during windup.)

Thresh is in this spot where he's incredibly powerful in pro hands, but merely pretty strong in unorganized play. Nerfing an aspect about him that is really only truly abusable by the best of the best seems like the perfect kind of nerf to hit him with.

I'm more annoyed at Riot trying to 'control' the meta in questionable ways [encouragement towards 2v2 lanes being the most frustrating.]

The amount of times Thresh has hooked Singed into my team... -.-
Don_Julio
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
2220 Posts
July 02 2013 07:16 GMT
#5705
Check out C9 LemonNations AMA at Reddit. He gives some in-depth and controversial answers.

"I don't think [Doublelift] can be considered a top ADC at the moment."
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 02 2013 07:18 GMT
#5706
On July 02 2013 16:16 Don_Julio wrote:
Check out C9 LemonNations AMA at Reddit. He gives some in-depth and controversial answers.

"I don't think [Doublelift] can be considered a top ADC at the moment."

Yeah, well, that's just, like, his opinion man
liftlift > tsm
bittman
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia8759 Posts
July 02 2013 07:19 GMT
#5707
On July 02 2013 15:48 Shikyo wrote:
I believe that what it really comes down to is that Riot doesn't compensate for kit disadvantages properly. A champion with an escape should have significantly worse base stats than a champion without one. A champion with heal/sustain mechanic should have significantly worse base stats than a champion without one. Same is slightly true for certain ranged vs melee(jayce). There's not enough incentive to play a risky champion without an escape because a non-risky champion with escape is just as effective in fights anyway


Perhaps indeed the risk-reward balance of some champions needs to be looked into. I think I largely agree with this point. Escapes are probably some of the strongest things in the meta overall. You could argue it's why Elise, Jayce, Zed and Khazix are so ridiculously popular. And then they out-damage or sustain escape-less champs.

Honestly a lack of escape is why I hate playing mordekaiser despite the fact I love playing mordekaiser.

More seriously, because we've recently had a lot of champions that can move about the map easier, a lot of slower champs have become rarer. S2 was all about Anivia and Karthus in a way for mid. But all the new champs are sooooooo dam mobile. Work backwards on champ releases and its just getting more and more slippery:
- Aatrox: Revive and a small wall hop
- Lissandra: claw + zonyas
- Zac: slingshot + bounce
- Quinn: Vault + bird form
- Thresh: Hook zoom in
- Vi: charge + charge ulti
- Nami: eh, not too mobile. Some disengage.
- Zed: slippery as hell
- Elise: Fly into space
- Khazix: Jumps

I mean, that's not to say champs before all this didn't have good escapes and engages, but the champion pool is far more mobile than it was before.

I'm hoping the next few champions are big, tanky and slow, but still fun.
Mvp - Leenock - Dongraegu - MC - Gumiho - Keen - Polt - Squirtle - Jjakji - Genius - Seed - Life - sC - Dream || LG-IM - MVP - FXO
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
July 02 2013 07:19 GMT
#5708
On July 02 2013 16:18 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 16:16 Don_Julio wrote:
Check out C9 LemonNations AMA at Reddit. He gives some in-depth and controversial answers.

"I don't think [Doublelift] can be considered a top ADC at the moment."

Yeah, well, that's just, like, his opinion man

Sure played like trash against TSM, got carried lol.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
July 02 2013 07:20 GMT
#5709
On July 02 2013 16:04 kongoline wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 15:12 kainzero wrote:
On July 02 2013 14:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
On July 02 2013 13:55 onlywonderboy wrote:
On July 02 2013 13:51 kainzero wrote:
On July 02 2013 13:07 Ketara wrote:
It is so sad to me to see this argument again.

"Lets all play League of Legends! Yeah! We like it so much we'll spend hours of our time talking about it on forums!"

"By the way, the design team is shit and none of them know what they're doing!"

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.

So?
There are a lot of games with "accidental" mechanics that turned out to be a lot of fun. The best example I can think of is Smash Melee.

From Season 2 to Season 3, with all the tinkering they did, I really can't say I enjoy the game much more than before, nor can I say that I enjoy it any less either.

If we want to keep it in the realm of MOBAs (or whatever your preferred acronym is) creep stacking and pulling camps into lane in Dota was unintended.


I think that's one of the fundamental differences between Dota and LoL, in Dota something that's unintended is usually readily embraced as long as its not game-breaking wheras in LoL playing the game outside of the "intended" box usually leads to a pretty swift nerf, the first cases that come to mind are AP yi and AP trynd

It depends.

Ward jumping?

didnt they try to remove it from the game at one point but people opposed against this change and riot decided to leave it?

Yeah, that was the point I was trying to make. I think they removed it, then put it back in.

So, yea, there are also things that they left in that weren't by design.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 02 2013 07:20 GMT
#5710
On July 02 2013 16:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 16:18 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 02 2013 16:16 Don_Julio wrote:
Check out C9 LemonNations AMA at Reddit. He gives some in-depth and controversial answers.

"I don't think [Doublelift] can be considered a top ADC at the moment."

Yeah, well, that's just, like, his opinion man

Sure played like trash against TSM, got carried lol.

Gotta rest the spine every once in a while.
liftlift > tsm
Xevious
Profile Joined February 2011
United States2086 Posts
July 02 2013 07:33 GMT
#5711
http://www.twitch.tv/skarnoldtrump/old
+ Show Spoiler +
#TheReturn
caelym
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6430 Posts
July 02 2013 07:33 GMT
#5712
On July 02 2013 16:16 Don_Julio wrote:
Check out C9 LemonNations AMA at Reddit. He gives some in-depth and controversial answers.

"I don't think [Doublelift] can be considered a top ADC at the moment."

His explanation makes sense. Doublelift's style of 6 item ADC god is outdated in the current meta. It's more effective to have higher farm priority for the solo lanes.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-02 07:39:23
July 02 2013 07:39 GMT
#5713
On July 02 2013 16:33 caelym wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 16:16 Don_Julio wrote:
Check out C9 LemonNations AMA at Reddit. He gives some in-depth and controversial answers.

"I don't think [Doublelift] can be considered a top ADC at the moment."

His explanation makes sense. Doublelift's style of 6 item ADC god is outdated in the current meta. It's more effective to have higher farm priority for the solo lanes.

MVP Ozone.

That said, Double's problem continues to be decision making. Deciding to Tumble into 5 people, ahead of his team. Deciding to build Omen against 4 AP champions. He can and frankly, will always be, the go-to carry for CLG. He's actually very lucky the team put him on their collective backs against TSM.

Doublelift can carry, CLG just needs to ban/pick better (vs C9, Week 3, vs MRN in Spring Split) and not go full retard (vs TSM, Week 3).
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 02 2013 07:44 GMT
#5714
On July 02 2013 16:39 NeoIllusions wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 16:33 caelym wrote:
On July 02 2013 16:16 Don_Julio wrote:
Check out C9 LemonNations AMA at Reddit. He gives some in-depth and controversial answers.

"I don't think [Doublelift] can be considered a top ADC at the moment."

His explanation makes sense. Doublelift's style of 6 item ADC god is outdated in the current meta. It's more effective to have higher farm priority for the solo lanes.

MVP Ozone.

That said, Double's problem continues to be decision making. Deciding to Tumble into 5 people, ahead of his team. Deciding to build Omen against 4 AP champions. He can and frankly, will always be, the go-to carry for CLG. He's actually very lucky the team put him on their collective backs against TSM.

Doublelift can carry, CLG just needs to ban/pick better (vs C9, Week 3, vs MRN in Spring Split) and not go full retard (vs TSM, Week 3).

Please; he didn't even tumble against c9; he just straight up struttin' on in der.
liftlift > tsm
Letmelose
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Korea (South)3227 Posts
July 02 2013 07:48 GMT
#5715
On July 02 2013 16:16 Don_Julio wrote:
Check out C9 LemonNations AMA at Reddit. He gives some in-depth and controversial answers.

"I don't think [Doublelift] can be considered a top ADC at the moment."


I think he's questioning his strategical approach to the game rather than his individual skills. I used to believe that Doublelift was forced onto a single playstyle by his team, but nowadays I'm not so sure whether it's his inflexibility to adapt to the metagame shifts or having too much faith in the strength of his style of play too much. However, even professionals have varying opinions, and are often blinded by the same biases that plague us spectators.

I somehow get the feeling that LemonNation's criteria for a top-class AD carry as of now depends on their adaptability to fit into a low-farm-priority AD carry role whose main function is not the main damage source in the late game, but bringing global gold by bringing down towers in order to let the solo-laners carry the game. Then again, I have no idea whether Imaqtpie, Sneaky, or WildTurtle fits this description. Doublelift definately has strengths that are not matched by these players in my opinion, maybe LemonNation truly does believe that these players are more powerful in the current metagame. I've always thought of Imaqtpie and WildTurtle as AD carries that focus heavily on trading during the early game, and has less presence during team-fights than Doublelift, but don't know which qualities LemonNation feels these three players have over Doublelift in the current metagame apart from perhaps knowing when to group better, which obviously is influenced by factors outside of a single player.
TL+ Member
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
July 02 2013 07:48 GMT
#5716
On July 02 2013 15:29 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 14:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
On July 02 2013 13:55 onlywonderboy wrote:
On July 02 2013 13:51 kainzero wrote:
On July 02 2013 13:07 Ketara wrote:
It is so sad to me to see this argument again.

"Lets all play League of Legends! Yeah! We like it so much we'll spend hours of our time talking about it on forums!"

"By the way, the design team is shit and none of them know what they're doing!"

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.

So?
There are a lot of games with "accidental" mechanics that turned out to be a lot of fun. The best example I can think of is Smash Melee.

From Season 2 to Season 3, with all the tinkering they did, I really can't say I enjoy the game much more than before, nor can I say that I enjoy it any less either.

If we want to keep it in the realm of MOBAs (or whatever your preferred acronym is) creep stacking and pulling camps into lane in Dota was unintended.


I think that's one of the fundamental differences between Dota and LoL, in Dota something that's unintended is usually readily embraced as long as its not game-breaking wheras in LoL playing the game outside of the "intended" box usually leads to a pretty swift nerf, the first cases that come to mind are AP yi and AP trynd


Meh, the problems in LOL rarely stem from things that are seemingly mistakes, the usually stem from things "working as intended" but merely working too well.

Past examples, that come to mind readily, and came after the crazy beta shit, etc, include: Metagolem, Release Graves, Release Lulu, Release Athenes, W Max Ez, Rengar, S3 Black Cleaver, S3 Warmogs (most HP items), S3 Muramana Ryze, Current(Physical) Muramana builds.

ETC

I remember the time i made the metagolem picture on GP.
Triforce/Atmas/Gunblade/Warmogs/2x Merc treads.
good times
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
July 02 2013 07:49 GMT
#5717
So I found out why my chat wasn't showing up in replays and when I was spectating. If you move your chat to the left side of your screen (I do this so it's above my minimap since my minimap is inverted) it won't show up. I have no idea why... I guess the chat is automatically moved to the left in replays and when you're spectating so it moves it off the screen if it's initially on the left?

Idk Riot should look into it :3
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
swim224
Profile Joined May 2010
Botswana368 Posts
July 02 2013 08:22 GMT
#5718
On July 02 2013 16:49 HazMat wrote:
So I found out why my chat wasn't showing up in replays and when I was spectating. If you move your chat to the left side of your screen (I do this so it's above my minimap since my minimap is inverted) it won't show up. I have no idea why... I guess the chat is automatically moved to the left in replays and when you're spectating so it moves it off the screen if it's initially on the left?

Idk Riot should look into it :3

Wait, is this if you move your minimap anywhere on the left side of the minimap, or only just above the minimap? I"m having the same problem you had.
....unless Taeja suddenly parachutes into the studio with explosions behind him and lands on a skateboard which he jumps over the booth before jumping in. If that happened it would be so sweet it would be physically impossible for them to lose. - Haydin
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-02 09:21:19
July 02 2013 09:08 GMT
#5719
On July 02 2013 15:35 sylverfyre wrote:
The only unintended thing that I can think of which was nerfed was Thresh flashing while casting his hook. But really, are you going to complain that they are nerfing Thresh? (Remember, other skills with windup didn't let you do this during windup.)

Thresh is in this spot where he's incredibly powerful in pro hands, but merely pretty strong in unorganized play. Nerfing an aspect about him that is really only truly abusable by the best of the best seems like the perfect kind of nerf to hit him with.

I'm more annoyed at Riot trying to 'control' the meta in questionable ways [encouragement towards 2v2 lanes being the most frustrating.]

Lee Sin double E bug
Twisted Fate Ult->Zhonya
Stacking Flask charges in fountain so they're still ticking while you go to lane
Leashing/aggro tricks on jungle camps
Terrain creation spells trapping heroes if cast precisely on them (e.g. if you targeted an Anivia wall just right, it could trap someone inside it)
Turtle stance triggering off Madred's procs (could argue that this one isn't a bug but Riot's stance is that it is)
Smitiing Baron/Dragon from over the wall if you stand in precisely the right spot
Moderator
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
July 02 2013 09:52 GMT
#5720
On July 02 2013 18:08 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 15:35 sylverfyre wrote:
The only unintended thing that I can think of which was nerfed was Thresh flashing while casting his hook. But really, are you going to complain that they are nerfing Thresh? (Remember, other skills with windup didn't let you do this during windup.)

Thresh is in this spot where he's incredibly powerful in pro hands, but merely pretty strong in unorganized play. Nerfing an aspect about him that is really only truly abusable by the best of the best seems like the perfect kind of nerf to hit him with.

I'm more annoyed at Riot trying to 'control' the meta in questionable ways [encouragement towards 2v2 lanes being the most frustrating.]

Lee Sin double E bug
Twisted Fate Ult->Zhonya
Stacking Flask charges in fountain so they're still ticking while you go to lane
Leashing/aggro tricks on jungle camps
Terrain creation spells trapping heroes if cast precisely on them (e.g. if you targeted an Anivia wall just right, it could trap someone inside it)
Turtle stance triggering off Madred's procs (could argue that this one isn't a bug but Riot's stance is that it is)
Smitiing Baron/Dragon from over the wall if you stand in precisely the right spot

Blitz hook -> flash backwards
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
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