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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
He's got big attack speed boosts, bonus healing already, and an autoattack reset on a low cooldown, so all the Sheen and BotRK passive procs will do all the damage, and he can ult + BotRK the enemy tank/bruiser in teamfights to instagib half their health. Seems like he'd be an awesome sort of anti-bruiser bruiser. | ||
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LaM
United States1321 Posts
I was just thinking of the people I hated playing against/with the most (guy was an asshole, but always snowballed when he was on the other team). Uhh yeah. | ||
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Chrispy
Canada5878 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On May 01 2013 05:47 Ketara wrote: I'd be interested in seeing a Trundle top lane going for something like BotRK, Frozen Fist, Spirit Visage, Warmogs, Sunfire, in whatever order. He's got big attack speed boosts, bonus healing already, and an autoattack reset on a low cooldown, so all the Sheen and BotRK passive procs will do all the damage, and he can ult + BotRK the enemy tank/bruiser in teamfights to instagib half their health. Seems like he'd be an awesome sort of anti-bruiser bruiser. If you're buying selfish items, you're going to be 100% useless. Your engagement ability is too poor. There's fundamentally no reason to buy selfish defensive items like Visage Warmog's Sunfire over team defensive items like Locket Bulwark Zeke's on Trundle. | ||
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LaM
United States1321 Posts
On May 01 2013 05:53 Chrispy wrote: azn zagenite or something like that? Nah that was the guy who played Kennen and Teemo right? Fk. I'm gonna google around a bit, although I have no idea what to search. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On May 01 2013 05:32 Shikyo wrote: Are you assuming 0 base hp regen, 0 minions dying nearby and 0 lifesteal over 4 seconds? Not to mention you forgot magic resistance. Either way do as you like. MR will affect both equally since the healing is done based on damage dealt. Trundle never gets lifesteal unless you build Wriggles, which is a generally bad item. Zeke's can be pretty cool, but I doubt it'll ever be core on Trundle. Even if you factor in Zeke's lifesteal, the difference between R max and W max will be on the scale of an extra 1~5 hp over the 4 seconds. The ulti heal has half up front, then again over 4 seconds. Base regen at 11 is 3.47 hp/second. Passive is 4% max health of stuff dying. With lvl 2 W, that's an additional 0.38 hp/second. Over 4 seconds, that's an extra 1.52 health. With lvl 1 W, that's an additional 0.28 hp/second. Over 4 seconds, that's an extra 1.11 health. This means there's still a 30.59 health difference that needs to be accounted for. This means there needs to be enough minions with a combined health of at least 764.8 health. At 16 it's 4.32 per second. Passive is 6% max health of stuff dying. With lvl 5 W, that's an additional 0.86 hp/second. Over 4 seconds, that's an extra 3.46 health. With lvl 3 W, that's an additional 0.60 hp/second. Over 4 seconds, that's an extra 2.42 health. This means there's still a 98.96 health difference that needs to be accounted for. This means there needs to be enough minions with a combined health of at least 1649 health. The increase in hp regen is neglible. The heal off your passive can make the difference, but you need to have anywhere between 2~5 minions dying within that 4 second window to make up the difference. While that can happen, it's not a good determining factor because of several reasons. Trundle lacks any form of aoe so you can't really intentionally nuke minions to gain hp. In fact, I'd argue that creeps dying nearby are a nonfactor. Consider that most fights are either over neutral objectives, where there are no creep, or at towers where creep waves are being instacleared by both teams. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Chrispy
Canada5878 Posts
On May 01 2013 05:55 LaM wrote: Nah that was the guy who played Kennen and Teemo right? Fk. I'm gonna google around a bit, although I have no idea what to search. Yeah. Welp I have no idea, GL. Any Eu players know if Akilord still plays? That guy was cool. | ||
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misirlou
Portugal3300 Posts
On May 01 2013 06:02 Ryuu314 wrote: MR will affect both equally since the healing is done based on damage dealt. Trundle never gets lifesteal unless you build Wriggles, which is a generally bad item. Zeke's can be pretty cool, but I doubt it'll ever be core on Trundle. The ulti heal has half up front, then again over 4 seconds. Base regen at 11 is 3.47 hp/second. Passive is 4% max health of stuff dying. With lvl 2 W, that's an additional 0.38 hp/second. Over 4 seconds, that's an extra 1.52 health. With lvl 1 W, that's an additional 0.28 hp/second. Over 4 seconds, that's an extra 1.11 health. This means there's still a 30.59 health difference that needs to be accounted for. This means there needs to be enough minions with a combined health of at least 764.8 health. At 16 it's 4.32 per second. Passive is 6% max health of stuff dying. With lvl 5 W, that's an additional 0.86 hp/second. Over 4 seconds, that's an extra 3.46 health. With lvl 3 W, that's an additional 0.60 hp/second. Over 4 seconds, that's an extra 2.42 health. This means there's still a 98.96 health difference that needs to be accounted for. This means there needs to be enough minions with a combined health of at least 1649 health. The increase in hp regen is neglible. The heal off your passive can make the difference, but you need to have anywhere between 2~5 minions dying within that 4 second window to make up the difference. While that can happen, it's not a good determining factor because of several reasons. Trundle lacks any form of aoe so you can't really intentionally nuke minions to gain hp. In fact, I'd argue that creeps dying nearby are a nonfactor. Consider that most fights are either over neutral objectives, where there are no creep, or at towers where creep waves are being instacleared by both teams. u did so many math and you intentionally or not left out the part of the math that you assume in the first line it's true. it isnt and check my previous post at last page. With 50% reduction (for ease of math) the difference from max ult to max w will also be 50% lower. that means 50hp difference instead of the 100. Based on the math you did, there is a 48.96 hp difference to be accounted, 824,5 minion hp. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
On May 01 2013 06:03 cLutZ wrote: So, Buy Bulwark>Win ARAM. Pretty much. 90% of people go glass cannon on everything anyway. If you want to win, buy support/aura items and win. | ||
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misirlou
Portugal3300 Posts
On May 01 2013 06:08 Slayer91 wrote: Yeah of all people trundle is a big guy you want supporty items on because trundles mostly a utility tank who should focus on E spam and using his ult, he has decent damage but not enough burst or upfront tankyness to be a real dive threat anyways agreed, but I can see the place for a BotRK or BT on his tank build since he has so much AS built in | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On May 01 2013 06:08 misirlou wrote: u did so many math and you intentionally or not left out the part of the math that you assume in the first line it's true. it isnt and check my previous post at last page. With 50% reduction (for ease of math) the difference from max ult to max w will also be 50% lower. that means 50hp difference instead of the 100. Based on the math you did, there is a 48.96 hp difference to be accounted, 824,5 minion hp. It really honestly doesn't matter. I'm just trying to show that the difference you get from R max and W max in terms of natural hp regen is absolutely miniscule. The only things that would make a difference so that W heal>R heal is 1. Minions dying 2. Itemizing Trundle offensively with tons of lifesteal and damage Point 1 I already explained. Point 2 is I guess valid in the sense that if you're super fed and buying BTs and Bork W max would be better. However, I'd imagine that as a jungle Trundle you'd be going Locket+Bulwark or some variation of a cdr/tank build. If you just have Zekes for lifesteal/damage, the difference is neglible on the scale of 1~5 hp over the ult duration. If you somehow afford a Bork, the difference will be much greater and may favor the max W build, but I highly doubt you'll be able to afford a Bork in a jungle build while not being completely useless the vast majority of the game unless you're stomping in which case you might as well go balls deep and go 5 BT build. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On May 01 2013 05:55 LaM wrote: Nah that was the guy who played Kennen and Teemo right? Fk. I'm gonna google around a bit, although I have no idea what to search. Azen Zagenite was like the best SSBM player in the world <.< On May 01 2013 06:10 misirlou wrote: agreed, but I can see the place for a BotRK or BT on his tank build since he has so much AS built in IMO iceborn gauntlet is core on Trundle. Also I've currently lost all games with Trundle. win lane lose game. get kited worse than nasus You really feel the lack of tenacity. Even though his Q was buffed I guess this is the last game with him. Overall a huge nerf due to no tenacity I'd say. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On May 01 2013 06:14 Juicyfruit wrote: I see no reason not to use lifesteal quints on trundle. Not that it really makes much of a difference. Quick math. At level 16, Trundle has just over 100 ad with just under 1 attack speed. With 6% lifesteal, he's healing 6 hp per second assuming your target has 0 armor. With lvl 3 W active, you're healing about 10 hp/second, while with lvl 5 W active you're healing about 13 hp/second. That's a 2~3 hp/second difference. Over the 4 second ult duration that comes out to 9~10 hp difference, which is absolutely miniscule. So yea, unless you're going glass cannon Trundle with lots of AD/lifesteal or in cases where there happens to be a creep wave as you're fighting, R>W for healing. Still, I suppose there's still a case to be made for W>R in that maxing W gives you twice as much movespeed and 4 times as much attackspeed while R gives you ~20% more health and reduces cd by 12~20 seconds. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Also lifesteal is after armor, you don't calculate it like that. Oh you did the calculations assuming no armor. Then it just is obsolete. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 01 2013 06:09 h3r1n6 wrote: Pretty much. 90% of people go glass cannon on everything anyway. If you want to win, buy support/aura items and win. I just beat a Team with the triumvirate of Lux, Yi, and Nidalee by just rushing Aegis/Bulwark on Shen. The rage was strong in postgame. He is surprisingly non-terrible in ARAM. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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