On May 01 2013 03:57 Shikyo wrote: So Trundle's subjugate seems like an ult that should be leveled at 6, 17, 18. That's pretty interesting. Haven't seen one like that before.
Happy early birthday!
Also if they made buffed the ult on supports like Sona at level 6 and nerfed them at level 18 that would make supports have a bigger impact on fights in the early game and a smaller one late game. I think Trundle's ult right now accentuates a post 6 early game strength relative to that of AD carries like Trist whose ults blast you two football fields at max rank instead of 1, or Twitch's that kills your entire team and Baron instead of just your entire team at max rank.
This would make supports more dotaesque instead of always being weaker than the AD carry.
On May 01 2013 03:57 Shikyo wrote: So Trundle's subjugate seems like an ult that should be leveled at 6, 17, 18. That's pretty interesting. Haven't seen one like that before.
Just the cooldown for leveling it is a pretty compelling reason to do the normal 6/11/16. It's also a %Max Health DRAIN, and even just a few % added onto that is pretty big.
nah just that little isn't worth it to me compared to what you get for leveling his other abilities. The main thing is the armor and mr anyway and those aren't affected.
10s off the ult with little to no extra bonuses vs 3s off pillar with a higher slow %... the choice is clear
Yup Lissandra icon is the best by far.
20 second CD reduction on ultimate is a big deal. I might consider leaving ranks 2 and 3 until after E is maxed, but given that W doesn't even grant Tenacity anymore, I don't see why you'd max W over getting rank 2/3 ultimate.
On May 01 2013 04:07 Ketara wrote: I dunno, I can def. see an argument for not levelling Trundle ult past 6.
All you get is 10 secs off the cd and 2% more health drain per level. The armor/mr drain remains constant.
Compare that to another level of W giving 5% movespeed, 15% aspd and 3% healing, or dropping the cooldown on his E and getting it closer to where you can use it twice in one fight, I can definitely see levelling it at 6/17/18.
Given your role, the 15% ASpd isn't that consequential, 2% health drain on ulti is going to be worth more than 3% total healing, and 10 sec ult CD is probably worth more than 5% MS.
2% health drain is more than 3% total healing? Note it amplifies the ult healing as well, as well as base hp regen or lifesteal. .
Also I'm not sure why you think Trundle's role is fulltank or whatever you're implying. His focus is clearly AD out of the offensive stats, that scales well with aspd. Movespeed at the very least does have perfect synergy.
On May 01 2013 04:35 ticklishmusic wrote: i honestly dont like the new aram map. the zoomed out aspect makes me misjudge the range on all my skillshots
also, so many fucking afk'ers.
This, so much. I've played Blitz twice on that map now, and that really messes with your brain. There were at least 15 grabs that just should have landed, but apparently the zoom decided otherwise. Oh well :/
On May 01 2013 04:35 ticklishmusic wrote: i honestly dont like the new aram map. the zoomed out aspect makes me misjudge the range on all my skillshots
also, so many fucking afk'ers.
What stops you from just zooming in a little bit back to normal? It's literally 1-2 scrolls away.
On May 01 2013 03:57 Shikyo wrote: So Trundle's subjugate seems like an ult that should be leveled at 6, 17, 18. That's pretty interesting. Haven't seen one like that before.
Just the cooldown for leveling it is a pretty compelling reason to do the normal 6/11/16. It's also a %Max Health DRAIN, and even just a few % added onto that is pretty big.
nah just that little isn't worth it to me compared to what you get for leveling his other abilities. The main thing is the armor and mr anyway and those aren't affected.
10s off the ult with little to no extra bonuses vs 3s off pillar with a higher slow %... the choice is clear
Yup Lissandra icon is the best by far.
20 second CD reduction on ultimate is a big deal. I might consider leaving ranks 2 and 3 until after E is maxed, but given that W doesn't even grant Tenacity anymore, I don't see why you'd max W over getting rank 2/3 ultimate.
On May 01 2013 04:07 Ketara wrote: I dunno, I can def. see an argument for not levelling Trundle ult past 6.
All you get is 10 secs off the cd and 2% more health drain per level. The armor/mr drain remains constant.
Compare that to another level of W giving 5% movespeed, 15% aspd and 3% healing, or dropping the cooldown on his E and getting it closer to where you can use it twice in one fight, I can definitely see levelling it at 6/17/18.
Given your role, the 15% ASpd isn't that consequential, 2% health drain on ulti is going to be worth more than 3% total healing, and 10 sec ult CD is probably worth more than 5% MS.
2% health drain is more than 3% total healing? Note it amplifies the ult healing as well, as well as base hp regen or lifesteal. .
Also I'm not sure why you think Trundle's role is fulltank or whatever you're implying. His focus is clearly AD out of the offensive stats, that scales well with aspd. Movespeed at the very least does have perfect synergy.
Go for it. Show us that bruiser/anticarry Trundle is the intended role.
Also had my first "I have no idea what I'm doing moment". Karma in ARAM with 30%+ CDR, zhonya, and Eve/Rengar/GP/Diana all trying to get on top of our Vayne. Press the buttons, hope the AoE is wide enough to hit everyone while they pile up, and get all frantic during your 200 HP Zhonya's statis hoping to press R-alt+E before somebody hits you. @_@
So anyone started playing quinn? I think she is plenty good in bot lane as long as you don't want an ADC lategame. Clearly Hydra+Shiv is the go to build for her together with TP flash summoners.
On May 01 2013 04:55 Eppa! wrote: So anyone started playing quinn? I think she is plenty good in bot lane as long as you don't want an ADC lategame. Clearly Hydra+Shiv is the go to build for her together with TP flash summoners.
Doesn't Hydra only work if you're in bird form though? What about Quinn mode.
On May 01 2013 03:57 Shikyo wrote: So Trundle's subjugate seems like an ult that should be leveled at 6, 17, 18. That's pretty interesting. Haven't seen one like that before.
Just the cooldown for leveling it is a pretty compelling reason to do the normal 6/11/16. It's also a %Max Health DRAIN, and even just a few % added onto that is pretty big.
nah just that little isn't worth it to me compared to what you get for leveling his other abilities. The main thing is the armor and mr anyway and those aren't affected.
10s off the ult with little to no extra bonuses vs 3s off pillar with a higher slow %... the choice is clear
Yup Lissandra icon is the best by far.
20 second CD reduction on ultimate is a big deal. I might consider leaving ranks 2 and 3 until after E is maxed, but given that W doesn't even grant Tenacity anymore, I don't see why you'd max W over getting rank 2/3 ultimate.
On May 01 2013 04:07 Ketara wrote: I dunno, I can def. see an argument for not levelling Trundle ult past 6.
All you get is 10 secs off the cd and 2% more health drain per level. The armor/mr drain remains constant.
Compare that to another level of W giving 5% movespeed, 15% aspd and 3% healing, or dropping the cooldown on his E and getting it closer to where you can use it twice in one fight, I can definitely see levelling it at 6/17/18.
Given your role, the 15% ASpd isn't that consequential, 2% health drain on ulti is going to be worth more than 3% total healing, and 10 sec ult CD is probably worth more than 5% MS.
2% health drain is more than 3% total healing? Note it amplifies the ult healing as well, as well as base hp regen or lifesteal. .
Also I'm not sure why you think Trundle's role is fulltank or whatever you're implying. His focus is clearly AD out of the offensive stats, that scales well with aspd. Movespeed at the very least does have perfect synergy.
2% health drain is gonna be more than 3% healing in most situations.
For example, a 2000 hp target. At level 11, you'll have max Q, lvl 3 E Rank 1 ult with lvl 2 W: Heals you 444 hp over the duration (20% of 2k = 400, then multiply by 11% for W) Rank 2 ult with lvl 1 W: Heals you 475 hp over the duration (22% of 2k = 440, then multiply by 8% for W)
Now at lvl 16 on a 3000 hp target. At lvl 16, you have max Q and E Rank 1 ult with lvl 5 W: Heals you 720 hp over the duration (20% of 3k = 600, then multiply by 20% for W) Rank 2 ult with lvl 4 W: Heals you 772 hp over the duration (22% of 3k = 660, then multiply by 17%) Rank 3 ult with lvl 3 W: Heals you 820 hp over the duration (24% of 3k = 720, then multiply by 14%)
As you can see, leveling ult will always heal you more than the healing increase from W.
You're basically weighing increased heal and decreased cd against increased movespeed and attackspeed. Honestly, I can see the merits of W>R, as maxing W over R will give double the movespeed bonus (before diminishing returns) and four times the attack speed bonus, while maxing R will only give 20% more health and 20 seconds off cd. If you're maxing cdr, which you should be imo, maxing R only gives 12 seconds off cd. But saying the healing increase is anywhere near comparable to the healing on R is simply false.
a few weeks/months ago there was a post on reddit which was like " A normal day for X" X= a league champion I think it was Darius or Garen.
The clip was an anime with a medieval setting the the he was fighting 100+ soldiers alone with a girl. Anyone knows the title of that thing? I wanted to watch it and forgot to save at least the name of the anime xD
On May 01 2013 04:14 Caphe wrote: So Sejuani's Q does %HP damage now, its not fun when everyone has %HP dmg. Come on Riot.
In S2 they were giving every bruiser and their mother some form of armor shred, and then they said in S3 they realized that resistances were OP when they saw that every viable bruiser needed armor shred. Now everything gets % HP damage, hmmm....
On May 01 2013 05:08 AsnSensation wrote: Random Question:
a few weeks/months ago there was a post on reddit which was like " A normal day for X" X= a league champion I think it was Darius or Garen.
The clip was an anime with a medieval setting the the he was fighting 100+ soldiers alone with a girl. Anyone knows the title of that thing? I wanted to watch it and forgot to save at least the name of the anime xD
Don't know the video name, but it was from Berserk.
On May 01 2013 05:08 AsnSensation wrote: Random Question:
a few weeks/months ago there was a post on reddit which was like " A normal day for X" X= a league champion I think it was Darius or Garen.
The clip was an anime with a medieval setting the the he was fighting 100+ soldiers alone with a girl. Anyone knows the title of that thing? I wanted to watch it and forgot to save at least the name of the anime xD
Don't know the video name, but it was from Berserk.
The champion was Garen. The girl was ... Quinn? J4 comes to "save" the day at the end too
On May 01 2013 04:55 xes wrote: Sejuani is ridiculous. Sunfire/Liandries = kill everything without even trying.
She doesn't even need them. Standard bulwark/locket/randuin's stuff, and suddenly you melt people. Even just a kindlegem and maxing W destroys people pre-6 (ganking mid is fun as hell).
On May 01 2013 03:57 Shikyo wrote: So Trundle's subjugate seems like an ult that should be leveled at 6, 17, 18. That's pretty interesting. Haven't seen one like that before.
Just the cooldown for leveling it is a pretty compelling reason to do the normal 6/11/16. It's also a %Max Health DRAIN, and even just a few % added onto that is pretty big.
nah just that little isn't worth it to me compared to what you get for leveling his other abilities. The main thing is the armor and mr anyway and those aren't affected.
10s off the ult with little to no extra bonuses vs 3s off pillar with a higher slow %... the choice is clear
Yup Lissandra icon is the best by far.
20 second CD reduction on ultimate is a big deal. I might consider leaving ranks 2 and 3 until after E is maxed, but given that W doesn't even grant Tenacity anymore, I don't see why you'd max W over getting rank 2/3 ultimate.
On May 01 2013 04:07 Ketara wrote: I dunno, I can def. see an argument for not levelling Trundle ult past 6.
All you get is 10 secs off the cd and 2% more health drain per level. The armor/mr drain remains constant.
Compare that to another level of W giving 5% movespeed, 15% aspd and 3% healing, or dropping the cooldown on his E and getting it closer to where you can use it twice in one fight, I can definitely see levelling it at 6/17/18.
Given your role, the 15% ASpd isn't that consequential, 2% health drain on ulti is going to be worth more than 3% total healing, and 10 sec ult CD is probably worth more than 5% MS.
2% health drain is more than 3% total healing? Note it amplifies the ult healing as well, as well as base hp regen or lifesteal. .
Also I'm not sure why you think Trundle's role is fulltank or whatever you're implying. His focus is clearly AD out of the offensive stats, that scales well with aspd. Movespeed at the very least does have perfect synergy.
2% health drain is gonna be more than 3% healing in most situations.
For example, a 2000 hp target. At level 11, you'll have max Q, lvl 3 E Rank 1 ult with lvl 2 W: Heals you 444 hp over the duration (20% of 2k = 400, then multiply by 11% for W) Rank 2 ult with lvl 1 W: Heals you 475 hp over the duration (22% of 2k = 440, then multiply by 8% for W)
Now at lvl 16 on a 3000 hp target. At lvl 16, you have max Q and E Rank 1 ult with lvl 5 W: Heals you 720 hp over the duration (20% of 3k = 600, then multiply by 20% for W) Rank 2 ult with lvl 4 W: Heals you 772 hp over the duration (22% of 3k = 660, then multiply by 17%) Rank 3 ult with lvl 3 W: Heals you 820 hp over the duration (24% of 3k = 720, then multiply by 14%)
As you can see, leveling ult will always heal you more than the healing increase from W.
You're basically weighing increased heal and decreased cd against increased movespeed and attackspeed. Honestly, I can see the merits of W>R, as maxing W over R will give double the movespeed bonus (before diminishing returns) and four times the attack speed bonus, while maxing R will only give 20% more health and 20 seconds off cd. If you're maxing cdr, which you should be imo, maxing R only gives 12 seconds off cd. But saying the healing increase is anywhere near comparable to the healing on R is simply false.
Are you assuming 0 base hp regen, 0 minions dying nearby and 0 lifesteal over 4 seconds?
On May 01 2013 03:57 Shikyo wrote: So Trundle's subjugate seems like an ult that should be leveled at 6, 17, 18. That's pretty interesting. Haven't seen one like that before.
Just the cooldown for leveling it is a pretty compelling reason to do the normal 6/11/16. It's also a %Max Health DRAIN, and even just a few % added onto that is pretty big.
nah just that little isn't worth it to me compared to what you get for leveling his other abilities. The main thing is the armor and mr anyway and those aren't affected.
10s off the ult with little to no extra bonuses vs 3s off pillar with a higher slow %... the choice is clear
Yup Lissandra icon is the best by far.
20 second CD reduction on ultimate is a big deal. I might consider leaving ranks 2 and 3 until after E is maxed, but given that W doesn't even grant Tenacity anymore, I don't see why you'd max W over getting rank 2/3 ultimate.
On May 01 2013 04:07 Ketara wrote: I dunno, I can def. see an argument for not levelling Trundle ult past 6.
All you get is 10 secs off the cd and 2% more health drain per level. The armor/mr drain remains constant.
Compare that to another level of W giving 5% movespeed, 15% aspd and 3% healing, or dropping the cooldown on his E and getting it closer to where you can use it twice in one fight, I can definitely see levelling it at 6/17/18.
Given your role, the 15% ASpd isn't that consequential, 2% health drain on ulti is going to be worth more than 3% total healing, and 10 sec ult CD is probably worth more than 5% MS.
2% health drain is more than 3% total healing? Note it amplifies the ult healing as well, as well as base hp regen or lifesteal. .
Also I'm not sure why you think Trundle's role is fulltank or whatever you're implying. His focus is clearly AD out of the offensive stats, that scales well with aspd. Movespeed at the very least does have perfect synergy.
2% health drain is gonna be more than 3% healing in most situations.
For example, a 2000 hp target. At level 11, you'll have max Q, lvl 3 E Rank 1 ult with lvl 2 W: Heals you 444 hp over the duration (20% of 2k = 400, then multiply by 11% for W) Rank 2 ult with lvl 1 W: Heals you 475 hp over the duration (22% of 2k = 440, then multiply by 8% for W)
Now at lvl 16 on a 3000 hp target. At lvl 16, you have max Q and E Rank 1 ult with lvl 5 W: Heals you 720 hp over the duration (20% of 3k = 600, then multiply by 20% for W) Rank 2 ult with lvl 4 W: Heals you 772 hp over the duration (22% of 3k = 660, then multiply by 17%) Rank 3 ult with lvl 3 W: Heals you 820 hp over the duration (24% of 3k = 720, then multiply by 14%)
As you can see, leveling ult will always heal you more than the healing increase from W.
You're basically weighing increased heal and decreased cd against increased movespeed and attackspeed. Honestly, I can see the merits of W>R, as maxing W over R will give double the movespeed bonus (before diminishing returns) and four times the attack speed bonus, while maxing R will only give 20% more health and 20 seconds off cd. If you're maxing cdr, which you should be imo, maxing R only gives 12 seconds off cd. But saying the healing increase is anywhere near comparable to the healing on R is simply false.
Are you assuming 0 base hp regen, 0 minions dying nearby and 0 lifesteal over 4 seconds?
Not to mention you forgot magic resistance.
Either way do as you like.
Also assuming W wont increase regen during ult downtime, which probably will give u more than 100hp if u kill wraiths before a fight (unless ure full hp)
On May 01 2013 05:41 Alaric wrote: The MR would affect both healings equally, since they're %.
Yes and no. You spin the ult vs w heal difference as 100 hp at lvl 16. The difference would be the same percentually but it wouldnt still be 100. e.g. 50% reduction from MR lvl 3 ult lvl 3 w -> 320*1.14=410.4 lvl1 ult lvl 5 w -> 300*1.2=360
EPT
