On April 18 2013 00:07 Ketara wrote: I feel like Riot is trying to save face with Karma at this point. They spent so long working on this remake, they need Karma to be a perfectly good and desirable and balanced champion. It's like they feel like they'll look bad if Karma isn't popular and they're buffing everything because of it.
The problem with Karma, is her ult is not ungodly strong (only mantra'd E is even ult-like), yet it makes the spell go on cooldown. Mantra'd spells should only make mantra go on CD.
On April 18 2013 00:08 Alaric wrote: Doesn't Fiddle destroy Yi mid? And I'd imagine Fear+Silence is pretty good at stopping hard cc-less assassins like Kha'Zix and Zed... except they can just permapush and roam and there's nothing he can do about it.
Bouncy Bird (Dark Wind) actually does +50% to minions, it's not instaclear, but it's pretty ok at pushing, and fiddles showing up late to the party is always a great surprise to have when you're trying to gank.
On April 18 2013 00:24 Vanka wrote: Weirdly enough, Zed/Khazix (I have seen Khazix, but never actually Zed after ~150 ranked games) get very little play mid lane in Chinese solo queue. Akalis usually go top, Diana only now and then.
Based on my experience, which admittedly is limited, mid is predominately lux (so many lux's), TF and ryze, followed by kat and yi, who are permabans/first picks, and then fiddle and kassidin. Those make up the vast majority of mid picks.
Huh, that's quite interesting. Wonder why the AD Assassin's haven't caught on there.
On April 18 2013 00:07 Ketara wrote: I feel like Riot is trying to save face with Karma at this point. They spent so long working on this remake, they need Karma to be a perfectly good and desirable and balanced champion. It's like they feel like they'll look bad if Karma isn't popular and they're buffing everything because of it.
The problem with Karma, is her ult is not ungodly strong (only mantra'd E is even ult-like), yet it makes the spell go on cooldown. Mantra'd spells should only make mantra go on CD.
So basically make it Rengar's Ferocity so you can double cast spells? That would be straight up insane. Like, not even a little. A lot.
On April 18 2013 00:07 Ketara wrote: I feel like Riot is trying to save face with Karma at this point. They spent so long working on this remake, they need Karma to be a perfectly good and desirable and balanced champion. It's like they feel like they'll look bad if Karma isn't popular and they're buffing everything because of it.
The problem with Karma, is her ult is not ungodly strong (only mantra'd E is even ult-like), yet it makes the spell go on cooldown. Mantra'd spells should only make mantra go on CD.
So basically make it Rengar's Ferocity so you can double cast spells? That would be straight up insane. Like, not even a little. A lot.
I think one one of the biggest changes that hurts new Karma over old Karma is not being able to have two Mantra charges saved up. The Mantra skill isn't nearly as strong as a real Ult and then you only have two skills to follow up with afterwords. When I played her I just felt like I stood around doing nothing after one spell rotation and I was reliant on my next Mantra charge to do anything meaningful again.
On April 18 2013 00:07 Ketara wrote: I feel like Riot is trying to save face with Karma at this point. They spent so long working on this remake, they need Karma to be a perfectly good and desirable and balanced champion. It's like they feel like they'll look bad if Karma isn't popular and they're buffing everything because of it.
The problem with Karma, is her ult is not ungodly strong (only mantra'd E is even ult-like), yet it makes the spell go on cooldown. Mantra'd spells should only make mantra go on CD.
So basically make it Rengar's Ferocity so you can double cast spells? That would be straight up insane. Like, not even a little. A lot.
I think one one of the biggest changes that hurts new Karma over old Karma is not being able to have two Mantra charges saved up. The Mantra skill isn't nearly as strong as a real Ult and then you only have two skills to follow up with afterwords. When I played her I just felt like I stood around doing nothing after one spell rotation and I was reliant on my next Mantra charge to do anything meaningful again.
Riot said that to make the Mantra abilities better, they couldn't have multiple charges at once. Whether or not they succeeded on that is beyond me, since I don't play her, but that was their line of reason.
On April 18 2013 00:07 Ketara wrote: I feel like Riot is trying to save face with Karma at this point. They spent so long working on this remake, they need Karma to be a perfectly good and desirable and balanced champion. It's like they feel like they'll look bad if Karma isn't popular and they're buffing everything because of it.
The problem with Karma, is her ult is not ungodly strong (only mantra'd E is even ult-like), yet it makes the spell go on cooldown. Mantra'd spells should only make mantra go on CD.
So basically make it Rengar's Ferocity so you can double cast spells? That would be straight up insane. Like, not even a little. A lot.
I think one one of the biggest changes that hurts new Karma over old Karma is not being able to have two Mantra charges saved up. The Mantra skill isn't nearly as strong as a real Ult and then you only have two skills to follow up with afterwords. When I played her I just felt like I stood around doing nothing after one spell rotation and I was reliant on my next Mantra charge to do anything meaningful again.
Rio said that to make the Mantra abilities better, they couldn't have multiple charges at once. Whether or not they succeeded on that is beyond me, since I don't play her, but that was their line of reason.
I understand their reasoning, but the Mantra'd skills don't feel substantial enough to warrant this limitation (well Q and W anyway, we all know E is pretty insane)
On April 18 2013 00:07 Ketara wrote: I feel like Riot is trying to save face with Karma at this point. They spent so long working on this remake, they need Karma to be a perfectly good and desirable and balanced champion. It's like they feel like they'll look bad if Karma isn't popular and they're buffing everything because of it.
The problem with Karma, is her ult is not ungodly strong (only mantra'd E is even ult-like), yet it makes the spell go on cooldown. Mantra'd spells should only make mantra go on CD.
So basically make it Rengar's Ferocity so you can double cast spells? That would be straight up insane. Like, not even a little. A lot.
I think one one of the biggest changes that hurts new Karma over old Karma is not being able to have two Mantra charges saved up. The Mantra skill isn't nearly as strong as a real Ult and then you only have two skills to follow up with afterwords. When I played her I just felt like I stood around doing nothing after one spell rotation and I was reliant on my next Mantra charge to do anything meaningful again.
Rio said that to make the Mantra abilities better, they couldn't have multiple charges at once. Whether or not they succeeded on that is beyond me, since I don't play her, but that was their line of reason.
I understand their reasoning, but the Mantra'd skills don't feel substantial enough to warrant this limitation (well Q and W anyway, we all know E is pretty insane)
I've never really felt that, except maybe in the late late game. Mantra Q is a butt-ton of damage if you can get the second explosion on the target, so Shield run up -> W root -> RQ is a massive trading tool in lane, and a big teamfighting tool with the slow and forcing people to run out of the explosion or lose half their health. I've also sniped Dragon with it before :D
Mantra W is definitely nothing to scoff at, even if it's my least used one. More than double the damage and a massive heal if you're below 50%. The only issue is the range being super short, but if you're in a position where you're being chased or they're using creep blocks and you want to harass, it's stupid good.
On April 17 2013 23:25 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright I gotta ask you guys...am I crazy or is this not entirely all that impressive?
Like...it's LB. That's what she does when she has any amount of AP. You spam your spells and destroy someone and get out. I mean obv the guy is good and way better than me, but it doesn't seem any different from what I've seen any high tier LB player do ever. Or is it just me and we should be bowing down to him or something....
Like someone else said, the sheer number of Chains he landed was pretty incredible. He may have missed some but there were no apparent whiffs. Also the play where he assassinated Elise and Distortion/Flashed away over where the Karthus wall would have been was pretty great.
On April 18 2013 00:07 Ketara wrote: I feel like Riot is trying to save face with Karma at this point. They spent so long working on this remake, they need Karma to be a perfectly good and desirable and balanced champion. It's like they feel like they'll look bad if Karma isn't popular and they're buffing everything because of it.
The problem with Karma, is her ult is not ungodly strong (only mantra'd E is even ult-like), yet it makes the spell go on cooldown. Mantra'd spells should only make mantra go on CD.
So basically make it Rengar's Ferocity so you can double cast spells? That would be straight up insane. Like, not even a little. A lot.
I think one one of the biggest changes that hurts new Karma over old Karma is not being able to have two Mantra charges saved up. The Mantra skill isn't nearly as strong as a real Ult and then you only have two skills to follow up with afterwords. When I played her I just felt like I stood around doing nothing after one spell rotation and I was reliant on my next Mantra charge to do anything meaningful again.
Rio said that to make the Mantra abilities better, they couldn't have multiple charges at once. Whether or not they succeeded on that is beyond me, since I don't play her, but that was their line of reason.
I understand their reasoning, but the Mantra'd skills don't feel substantial enough to warrant this limitation (well Q and W anyway, we all know E is pretty insane)
I've never really felt that, except maybe in the late late game. Mantra Q is a butt-ton of damage if you can get the second explosion on the target, so Shield run up -> W root -> RQ is a massive trading tool in lane, and a big teamfighting tool with the slow and forcing people to run out of the explosion or lose half their health. I've also sniped Dragon with it before :D
Mantra W is definitely nothing to scoff at, even if it's my least used one. More than double the damage and a massive heal if you're below 50%. The only issue is the range being super short, but if you're in a position where you're being chased or they're using creep blocks and you want to harass, it's stupid good.
I now realize it's important to note I was playing her as an AP Support. As a Support I feel the gold is too limited because while the Mantra'd skill helps in a low gold environment, after that her other two skills don't really do much. With AP I could see how they would be less useless.
Like...it's LB. That's what she does when she has any amount of AP. You spam your spells and destroy someone and get out. I mean obv the guy is good and way better than me, but it doesn't seem any different from what I've seen any high tier LB player do ever. Or is it just me and we should be bowing down to him or something....
Like someone else said, the sheer number of Chains he landed was pretty incredible. He may have missed some but there were no apparent whiffs. Also the play where he assassinated Elise and Distortion/Flashed away over where the Karthus wall would have been was pretty great.
On April 18 2013 00:07 Ketara wrote: I feel like Riot is trying to save face with Karma at this point. They spent so long working on this remake, they need Karma to be a perfectly good and desirable and balanced champion. It's like they feel like they'll look bad if Karma isn't popular and they're buffing everything because of it.
The problem with Karma, is her ult is not ungodly strong (only mantra'd E is even ult-like), yet it makes the spell go on cooldown. Mantra'd spells should only make mantra go on CD.
So basically make it Rengar's Ferocity so you can double cast spells? That would be straight up insane. Like, not even a little. A lot.
I think one one of the biggest changes that hurts new Karma over old Karma is not being able to have two Mantra charges saved up. The Mantra skill isn't nearly as strong as a real Ult and then you only have two skills to follow up with afterwords. When I played her I just felt like I stood around doing nothing after one spell rotation and I was reliant on my next Mantra charge to do anything meaningful again.
Rio said that to make the Mantra abilities better, they couldn't have multiple charges at once. Whether or not they succeeded on that is beyond me, since I don't play her, but that was their line of reason.
I understand their reasoning, but the Mantra'd skills don't feel substantial enough to warrant this limitation (well Q and W anyway, we all know E is pretty insane)
I've never really felt that, except maybe in the late late game. Mantra Q is a butt-ton of damage if you can get the second explosion on the target, so Shield run up -> W root -> RQ is a massive trading tool in lane, and a big teamfighting tool with the slow and forcing people to run out of the explosion or lose half their health. I've also sniped Dragon with it before :D
Mantra W is definitely nothing to scoff at, even if it's my least used one. More than double the damage and a massive heal if you're below 50%. The only issue is the range being super short, but if you're in a position where you're being chased or they're using creep blocks and you want to harass, it's stupid good.
I now realize it's important to note I was playing her as an AP Support. As a Support I feel the gold is too limited because while the Mantra'd skill helps in a low gold environment, after that her other two skills don't really do much. With AP I could see how they would be less useless.
He pretty much didn't miss anything, all video. Every combo he did was perfect, that dive on karthus he landed the exact needed amount of autos while comboing.. He just played the game pretty much perfectly.
Not that impressive 1 shotting people after hes fed but to get that fed took some really impressive plays.
Often times it's not about what you can do when you are fed, but what you did to get there. As someone pointed out, the LB doubled the farm of enemy karthus while 1v2, and did some amazing solo plays to get himself snowballed, which is very impressive at that level.
Like...it's LB. That's what she does when she has any amount of AP. You spam your spells and destroy someone and get out. I mean obv the guy is good and way better than me, but it doesn't seem any different from what I've seen any high tier LB player do ever. Or is it just me and we should be bowing down to him or something....
Like someone else said, the sheer number of Chains he landed was pretty incredible. He may have missed some but there were no apparent whiffs. Also the play where he assassinated Elise and Distortion/Flashed away over where the Karthus wall would have been was pretty great.
On April 18 2013 00:07 Ketara wrote: I feel like Riot is trying to save face with Karma at this point. They spent so long working on this remake, they need Karma to be a perfectly good and desirable and balanced champion. It's like they feel like they'll look bad if Karma isn't popular and they're buffing everything because of it.
The problem with Karma, is her ult is not ungodly strong (only mantra'd E is even ult-like), yet it makes the spell go on cooldown. Mantra'd spells should only make mantra go on CD.
So basically make it Rengar's Ferocity so you can double cast spells? That would be straight up insane. Like, not even a little. A lot.
I think one one of the biggest changes that hurts new Karma over old Karma is not being able to have two Mantra charges saved up. The Mantra skill isn't nearly as strong as a real Ult and then you only have two skills to follow up with afterwords. When I played her I just felt like I stood around doing nothing after one spell rotation and I was reliant on my next Mantra charge to do anything meaningful again.
Rio said that to make the Mantra abilities better, they couldn't have multiple charges at once. Whether or not they succeeded on that is beyond me, since I don't play her, but that was their line of reason.
I understand their reasoning, but the Mantra'd skills don't feel substantial enough to warrant this limitation (well Q and W anyway, we all know E is pretty insane)
I've never really felt that, except maybe in the late late game. Mantra Q is a butt-ton of damage if you can get the second explosion on the target, so Shield run up -> W root -> RQ is a massive trading tool in lane, and a big teamfighting tool with the slow and forcing people to run out of the explosion or lose half their health. I've also sniped Dragon with it before :D
Mantra W is definitely nothing to scoff at, even if it's my least used one. More than double the damage and a massive heal if you're below 50%. The only issue is the range being super short, but if you're in a position where you're being chased or they're using creep blocks and you want to harass, it's stupid good.
I now realize it's important to note I was playing her as an AP Support. As a Support I feel the gold is too limited because while the Mantra'd skill helps in a low gold environment, after that her other two skills don't really do much. With AP I could see how they would be less useless.
I can't even fathom playing her as support. Unless you get fed enough to rush Chalice/Athene's, you can't really utilize Q spam as a zoning tool. And you can't really use W aggressively like you can in most mid matchups, though it still functions as a semi-good dive deterrent.
Support Karma to me feels like a worse support Janna who only really has an AoE shield going for her over Janna. Mid Karma who gets to stack AP and CDR can just nuke anyone not stacking MR and be a variable threat.
On April 18 2013 01:52 Lounge wrote: Weird, I actually prefer the new Karma as support. And the mid Karmas I saw just ended up feeding. W Max, Q used entirely for snare.
Interesting, but are you sure you have the skills right? W has the snare, and I assume you would max E for the shield.
I mean, of course she can still work as a support. Q slow is 25% at all levels and the RQ zone is pretty good for zoning out. W root can deter aggression, and of course E's shield is pretty massive. That said, with low levels and AP your shield would just feel pretty low in my opinion.
LeBlanc's E seems to have a strange hitbox, at 52 seconds in a video I'd have thought the chain would miss but the hitbox connects and then the tether straightens itself, it's very strange visually. ôo
Yeah, W max for longer root and the damage goes up at the same rate Q would. Similar to Zyra actually but a much shorter range. I actually play her W most similar to Leona Q E combo, but you trade stun for staying at a safer range and being able to auto harass more.
Of course, she doesn't have the amazing level 6 leona does, but she stays more relevant if you fall behind. EDIT: I like to play her with a strong all-in laner, like Graves or Ez. I think you could max shield if you needed to play passive, or if you had a weaker all-in like Cait or a Draven on the enemy team, but yeah at that point she does seem like a weaker Janna.
Any time I tried to W someone they would just start attacking me and even with the shield I'd get chunked really hard. Although they had a Taric so that's possibly just a really bad match-up lol.
As much as TL liked the old AP Karma. I sincerely wish Riot would kept up with her as more of a support role. The remake is pretty decent in terms of damage, but her skillset feels a lot more generic than it did before the remake. This is mostly because we are essentially pigeon-holed into playing her mid AP. I don't know why they neglected her previous support/utlity role so much. I especially dislike the leash which feels like a bad imitation of Leblanc's leash. It really destroys this character in terms of originality.
EPT
