• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:18
CEST 15:18
KST 22:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 236ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7
Community News
BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion5BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion5Weekly Cups (June 29-July 5): Solar Doubles0MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon445.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes40
StarCraft 2
General
Most successful SC2 players of Q2 2026 AquaTrail-(I've Tested) My 90 Day Honest Experienc https://www.facebook.com/Power.Pro.Genius.USD/ Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL CK #5 Race War HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10 Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 533 Die Together The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Starcraft vs Retro Category on Twitch
Tourneys
[ASL22] Wildcard Qualifier [Megathread] Daily Proleagues IPSL Spring 2026 Top 4! Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Major Shifts in the Gaming I…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9026 users

[Patch 3.05: Balance Update] General Discussion - Page 164

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 162 163 164 165 166 210 Next
ArchAngelSC
Profile Joined April 2012
England706 Posts
April 24 2013 10:35 GMT
#3261
On April 24 2013 19:12 Gaslo wrote:
Why did people stop playing Vi? Were the nerfs so bad, or did people just move to the next FOTMs? I have 6100 IP, and were thinking about her or Khazix. He used to be like 100% pick/ban in my elo, now i havent seen even one in the last 2 weeks.

Get Vi if you jungle. Kha'zix if you lane.

I still play Vi. She's still really good, just not op any more.
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
April 24 2013 10:44 GMT
#3262
Vi is great, no question.
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
EquilasH
Profile Joined April 2009
Denmark2142 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-24 10:49:39
April 24 2013 10:46 GMT
#3263
On April 24 2013 18:25 Dusty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 18:09 EquilasH wrote:
On April 24 2013 17:08 Dusty wrote:
I think Melee carries suck because their kits are awful in LoL. Why pick Yi, Trynd, GP, Fiora when you can be Irelia, Jax, Darius, Hecarim, Khazix, Nasus, Renekton, etc. All of those in the latter group have some major things in comming: High base damage, high scaling and relevancy while being able to build tanky. Compare it to DotA where melee carries are godlike because their kits are really strong and scale really well with items.


A large part of my point was that melee carries such as Yi and Tryndamere don't suck. I don't know how much you guys encounter jungle Yi or Trynd top on NA, but when I face it on EU it always seems damn strong.


I know a dude that plays a lot of smite/tp jungle Yi (Mechzen on NA) and he either gets fed and carries or doesn't get fed and just loses because he's an un-fed Yi. Nobody plays Trynd top on NA as far as I know, except for yesterday where I opened nintendude's stream and he played him vs Nasus, which is probably one of the only lanes that Trynd can do decently in.

Somewhat related, what elo/level are you playing on in EU

Oh you know what, I am actually reminded of someone named KillerKast (I think) on NA that plays a lot of Fiora and he usually does well playing her mid. Maybe he's on to something with his playstyle, who knows.


I'm Diamond 1. And yeah mostly it seems like it's the same guys playing those champions, I forgot the Yi player's names but I know Trynd or Feed plays a mean Tryndamere (I haven't seen him for a while and from his lolking it looks like he doesn't play much anymore) and a couple other guy's whose names I can't recall.

Edit: Also you should take his name seriously - I had him one game where he went 2-15 with some support.
wat
Mensol
Profile Joined September 2012
14536 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-24 10:57:50
April 24 2013 10:53 GMT
#3264
I've played Lee Singa top lane other day and it felt super weak -_- #buffleesinga

give me some suggestions please :3
If you don't know what the fuck you are doing, how are your enemies supposed to know what the fuck you are doing. - imaqtpie on NA teams at Worlds.
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-24 11:18:38
April 24 2013 11:16 GMT
#3265
On April 24 2013 19:53 Mensol wrote:
I've played Lee Singa top lane other day and it felt super weak -_- #buffleesinga

give me some suggestions please :3

sadly best suggestion is dont play lee unless u r 10x more skilled than ur opponent (or atleast hit the skill cap so u can do sick things with him)

btw cant decide FMJ vs Debonair Jayce, which skin is better?
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
April 24 2013 11:23 GMT
#3266
guys would you stop making the wrong dota melee carry comparisons?

melee carries in dota are basicly tanks/bruisers with (very) high mobility or CC or both. At least all the successfull ones have kits that make extremely tanky or even invulnerable for a considerable amount of time and they still are build very tanky. The few sqhishy ones who have higher dps scaling in return are situational picks and need teams to build around them.

its basicly the exact same thing, stop pretending its not.

the main reason we don't see alot of melee carrying lanes is convenience and the fact that adc players are practicing ranged champs. Also alot of the ranged+ support lanes are just very strong and apply safe aggression.

apart from the lanes it is not the teamfights that are the problem at all. the fact that you dont have a ranged adc actually opens up for alot of strong possibilities who can beat standard comps. Its basicly the turret sieges and pokeing phases that make radcs so strong.

melees splitpush though. I rather send a jax/trynd/ire/riven solo to a sidelane after 20min than a cait/mf/graves.
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
April 24 2013 11:37 GMT
#3267
lack of effective bruiser+support lanes doesnt help
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
April 24 2013 11:48 GMT
#3268
On April 24 2013 20:16 kongoline wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 19:53 Mensol wrote:
I've played Lee Singa top lane other day and it felt super weak -_- #buffleesinga

give me some suggestions please :3

sadly best suggestion is dont play lee unless u r 10x more skilled than ur opponent (or atleast hit the skill cap so u can do sick things with him)

btw cant decide FMJ vs Debonair Jayce, which skin is better?

I think it's pretty funny that Lee Sin is basically balanced around making sick plays
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-24 11:55:32
April 24 2013 11:49 GMT
#3269
On April 24 2013 17:08 Dusty wrote:
I think Melee carries suck because their kits are awful in LoL. Why pick Yi, Trynd, GP, Fiora when you can be Irelia, Jax, Darius, Hecarim, Khazix, Nasus, Renekton, etc. All of those in the latter group have some major things in comming: High base damage, high scaling and relevancy while being able to build tanky. Compare it to DotA where melee carries are godlike because their kits are really strong and scale really well with items.


Irelia,Jax,Darius,Hecarim,Khazix,Nasus,Renekton etc. ARE MELEE CARRIES if you trying to make a comparison to dota. People just completely misuse the terminology not realizing you can't just compare games and then get into this rut. Melee carries in dota get maybe 2 offensive items then rest are either defensive or hybrid offensive/defensive. It's just dota has far more pronounced powercurving so obviously it looks like they do so much more because they just do relative to everyone else. LoL specifically removed power curving at the level dota has it so you are never going to get the same effect. Add to the fact that the map is way smaller so it's incredibly hard to zone heroes out the way you do in a safe lane. This means you have to have a strong laner to actually get anywhere which means melee kits can't be geared to be super weak early but super strong later(Which is almost against LoL design anyway).
Dusty
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3359 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-24 12:02:25
April 24 2013 11:54 GMT
#3270
On April 24 2013 20:16 kongoline wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 19:53 Mensol wrote:
I've played Lee Singa top lane other day and it felt super weak -_- #buffleesinga

give me some suggestions please :3

sadly best suggestion is dont play lee unless u r 10x more skilled than ur opponent (or atleast hit the skill cap so u can do sick things with him)

btw cant decide FMJ vs Debonair Jayce, which skin is better?


Flip a coin, they're both awesome

On April 24 2013 20:49 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 17:08 Dusty wrote:
I think Melee carries suck because their kits are awful in LoL. Why pick Yi, Trynd, GP, Fiora when you can be Irelia, Jax, Darius, Hecarim, Khazix, Nasus, Renekton, etc. All of those in the latter group have some major things in comming: High base damage, high scaling and relevancy while being able to build tanky. Compare it to DotA where melee carries are godlike because their kits are really strong and scale really well with items.


Irelia,Jax,Darius,Hecarim,Khazix,Nasus,Renekton etc. ARE MELEE CARRIES if you trying to make a comparison to dota. People just completely misuse the terminology not realizing you can't just compare games and then get into this rut.


yeah I suppose you and clickrush are right. I still stand by my opinion that fiora/trynd/yi just have awful competitive kits compared to the rest of the melee champions because of their lack of CC/burst
Mensol
Profile Joined September 2012
14536 Posts
April 24 2013 12:01 GMT
#3271
On April 24 2013 20:16 kongoline wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 19:53 Mensol wrote:
I've played Lee Singa top lane other day and it felt super weak -_- #buffleesinga

give me some suggestions please :3

sadly best suggestion is dont play lee unless u r 10x more skilled than ur opponent (or atleast hit the skill cap so u can do sick things with him)

btw cant decide FMJ vs Debonair Jayce, which skin is better?

you better open FMJ because he'll be 1350 rp pretty soon.

also FMJ has pretty cool voice.
If you don't know what the fuck you are doing, how are your enemies supposed to know what the fuck you are doing. - imaqtpie on NA teams at Worlds.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-24 12:23:42
April 24 2013 12:22 GMT
#3272
On April 24 2013 20:54 Dusty wrote:
yeah I suppose you and clickrush are right. I still stand by my opinion that fiora/trynd/yi just have awful competitive kits compared to the rest of the melee champions because of their lack of CC/burst


That could very well be true. I just feel both riot and the community keep thinking they are different so they will never be balanced for competitive play because of this. So part of the solution is fixing peoples perception of them. This whole "Bruiser" and "AD melee carry" stuff is hurting the champions more than helping.

Just reading the reddit thread about this I see so much false information about how Dota works. Riot is notoriously stupid when it comes to how dota works so I don't see why this comparison has even developed.
Serelitz
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands2895 Posts
April 24 2013 12:35 GMT
#3273
On April 24 2013 21:01 Mensol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 20:16 kongoline wrote:
On April 24 2013 19:53 Mensol wrote:
I've played Lee Singa top lane other day and it felt super weak -_- #buffleesinga

give me some suggestions please :3

sadly best suggestion is dont play lee unless u r 10x more skilled than ur opponent (or atleast hit the skill cap so u can do sick things with him)

btw cant decide FMJ vs Debonair Jayce, which skin is better?

you better open FMJ because he'll be 1350 rp pretty soon.

also FMJ has pretty cool voice.


FMJ has a cool voice but he's ugly as shit other than that IMO. Either way it comes down to opinion, Debonair is more 'smooth' and less inventor and FMJ is kinda vice versa.
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
April 24 2013 13:20 GMT
#3274
On April 24 2013 21:35 Serelitz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 21:01 Mensol wrote:
On April 24 2013 20:16 kongoline wrote:
On April 24 2013 19:53 Mensol wrote:
I've played Lee Singa top lane other day and it felt super weak -_- #buffleesinga

give me some suggestions please :3

sadly best suggestion is dont play lee unless u r 10x more skilled than ur opponent (or atleast hit the skill cap so u can do sick things with him)

btw cant decide FMJ vs Debonair Jayce, which skin is better?

you better open FMJ because he'll be 1350 rp pretty soon.

also FMJ has pretty cool voice.


FMJ has a cool voice but he's ugly as shit other than that IMO. Either way it comes down to opinion, Debonair is more 'smooth' and less inventor and FMJ is kinda vice versa.


Debonair better for more "Cool Guys Don't Look at Acceleration Gate/Shockwave Gibs." Bond, James fucking Bond.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-24 13:22:39
April 24 2013 13:22 GMT
#3275
i noticed some players use 1x 0.28AD glyph so their run page shows 16AD not 15, i changed it myself (well its 1 dmg vs 1 mr) but my ingame lvl1 damage didnt change, does it work at all or its some urban legend?
Keniji
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands2569 Posts
April 24 2013 13:27 GMT
#3276
On April 24 2013 22:22 kongoline wrote:
i noticed some players use 1x 0.28AD glyph so their run page shows 16AD not 15, i changed it myself (well its 1 dmg vs 1 mr) but my ingame lvl1 damage didnt change, does it work at all or its some urban legend?


League does not round. The display is rounded, but the number they calculate with isn't.

So no, It doesn't work.
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
April 24 2013 13:29 GMT
#3277
well there goes 205 IP i never see again ^^
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
April 24 2013 13:29 GMT
#3278
On April 24 2013 19:34 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 18:41 Osmoses wrote:
Problem with so-called melee-carries is lategame. They get destroyed in seconds in teamfights.


Not always. Jax, Irelia, and Riven if they're well itemized can do some sick damage unless they're just completely locked down by crowd control.

Maybe it's different for Irelia in Season 3 but it used to be that even if you were underfarmed relative to their adc or top laner you could still do significant damage to their adc before you got killed, and if you were decently farmed you were blowing their adc or ap carry before they had a chance to respond. Same goes for Jax and Riven.

And the thing about Jax/Irelia/Riven is you can itemize both tankiness and damage and it's really your choice on how you approach it. You can grab randuins/something tanky along with your damage items. Granted it's a bit more then what adc's have to do, but hey it's a melee champ. What did you expect?

So? Melee Carries in DOTA do the same thing - they get pretty fucking tanky.

What you need to be a carry is sustained DPS, whether it's from consistent autoattack steroids (Jax) or low cooldown abilities that you can space out in a fight (Riven) with mobility (all of the above) and stickiness (all of the above) and maybe some durability on their kit so they can squeeze more offense into their itemization (Counterstrike, Valor, Grandmaster activation)
jpak
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States5045 Posts
April 24 2013 13:30 GMT
#3279
Shy surpasses Maknoon in the All Stars standing in Korea!

[image loading]
CJ Entusman #50! #1 클템 fan TL!
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-24 13:45:03
April 24 2013 13:44 GMT
#3280
On April 24 2013 22:30 jpak wrote:
Shy surpasses Maknoon in the All Stars standing in Korea!
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

I hope they do a 1v1 showdown like SoaZ and Wickd.
Prev 1 162 163 164 165 166 210 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
SC Evo League
12:00
SEL S3 Ladder Invitational
ByuN vs Classic
Cure vs Solar
IntoTheiNu 1049
LiquipediaDiscussion
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Sea Duckling Open #147
CranKy Ducklings106
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Ryung 829
Rex 153
MindelVK 41
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 25183
Bisu 2243
Shuttle 1040
Hyuk 925
Mini 828
Horang2 630
Jaedong 509
BeSt 419
Stork 189
Last 165
[ Show more ]
Soma 149
Dewaltoss 138
ggaemo 130
Larva 91
soO 47
sorry 30
ToSsGirL 29
sSak 19
Sexy 17
IntoTheRainbow 14
GoRush 14
Icarus 6
Rock 5
Dota 2
Gorgc8701
Dendi769
XaKoH 490
XcaliburYe136
Counter-Strike
zeus385
Other Games
gofns15268
FrodaN3707
singsing2125
DeMusliM577
Lowko431
Pyrionflax287
KnowMe111
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick28380
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 14
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP18
• Response 16
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
IPSL
2h 42m
Dragon vs Ret
Patches Events
2h 42m
RSL Revival
19h 42m
Solar vs Rogue
Maru vs NightMare
Sparkling Tuna Cup
20h 42m
IPSL
1d 2h
Bonyth vs Hawk
GSL
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
CrankTV Team League
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W2
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
ASL Season 22: Wild Card Qualifier
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.