• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:52
CET 13:52
KST 21:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Rongyi Cup S3 - RO16 Preview3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational12SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)22Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7
StarCraft 2
General
PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey! herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued StarCraft 2 not at the Esports World Cup 2026 [Short Story] The Last GSL
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Gypsy to Korea BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Fantasy's Q&A video BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread NASA and the Private Sector
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Esports Advertising Shap…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1475 users

[Patch 3.05: Balance Update] General Discussion - Page 164

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 162 163 164 165 166 210 Next
ArchAngelSC
Profile Joined April 2012
England706 Posts
April 24 2013 10:35 GMT
#3261
On April 24 2013 19:12 Gaslo wrote:
Why did people stop playing Vi? Were the nerfs so bad, or did people just move to the next FOTMs? I have 6100 IP, and were thinking about her or Khazix. He used to be like 100% pick/ban in my elo, now i havent seen even one in the last 2 weeks.

Get Vi if you jungle. Kha'zix if you lane.

I still play Vi. She's still really good, just not op any more.
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
April 24 2013 10:44 GMT
#3262
Vi is great, no question.
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
EquilasH
Profile Joined April 2009
Denmark2142 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-24 10:49:39
April 24 2013 10:46 GMT
#3263
On April 24 2013 18:25 Dusty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 18:09 EquilasH wrote:
On April 24 2013 17:08 Dusty wrote:
I think Melee carries suck because their kits are awful in LoL. Why pick Yi, Trynd, GP, Fiora when you can be Irelia, Jax, Darius, Hecarim, Khazix, Nasus, Renekton, etc. All of those in the latter group have some major things in comming: High base damage, high scaling and relevancy while being able to build tanky. Compare it to DotA where melee carries are godlike because their kits are really strong and scale really well with items.


A large part of my point was that melee carries such as Yi and Tryndamere don't suck. I don't know how much you guys encounter jungle Yi or Trynd top on NA, but when I face it on EU it always seems damn strong.


I know a dude that plays a lot of smite/tp jungle Yi (Mechzen on NA) and he either gets fed and carries or doesn't get fed and just loses because he's an un-fed Yi. Nobody plays Trynd top on NA as far as I know, except for yesterday where I opened nintendude's stream and he played him vs Nasus, which is probably one of the only lanes that Trynd can do decently in.

Somewhat related, what elo/level are you playing on in EU

Oh you know what, I am actually reminded of someone named KillerKast (I think) on NA that plays a lot of Fiora and he usually does well playing her mid. Maybe he's on to something with his playstyle, who knows.


I'm Diamond 1. And yeah mostly it seems like it's the same guys playing those champions, I forgot the Yi player's names but I know Trynd or Feed plays a mean Tryndamere (I haven't seen him for a while and from his lolking it looks like he doesn't play much anymore) and a couple other guy's whose names I can't recall.

Edit: Also you should take his name seriously - I had him one game where he went 2-15 with some support.
wat
Mensol
Profile Joined September 2012
14536 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-24 10:57:50
April 24 2013 10:53 GMT
#3264
I've played Lee Singa top lane other day and it felt super weak -_- #buffleesinga

give me some suggestions please :3
If you don't know what the fuck you are doing, how are your enemies supposed to know what the fuck you are doing. - imaqtpie on NA teams at Worlds.
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-24 11:18:38
April 24 2013 11:16 GMT
#3265
On April 24 2013 19:53 Mensol wrote:
I've played Lee Singa top lane other day and it felt super weak -_- #buffleesinga

give me some suggestions please :3

sadly best suggestion is dont play lee unless u r 10x more skilled than ur opponent (or atleast hit the skill cap so u can do sick things with him)

btw cant decide FMJ vs Debonair Jayce, which skin is better?
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
April 24 2013 11:23 GMT
#3266
guys would you stop making the wrong dota melee carry comparisons?

melee carries in dota are basicly tanks/bruisers with (very) high mobility or CC or both. At least all the successfull ones have kits that make extremely tanky or even invulnerable for a considerable amount of time and they still are build very tanky. The few sqhishy ones who have higher dps scaling in return are situational picks and need teams to build around them.

its basicly the exact same thing, stop pretending its not.

the main reason we don't see alot of melee carrying lanes is convenience and the fact that adc players are practicing ranged champs. Also alot of the ranged+ support lanes are just very strong and apply safe aggression.

apart from the lanes it is not the teamfights that are the problem at all. the fact that you dont have a ranged adc actually opens up for alot of strong possibilities who can beat standard comps. Its basicly the turret sieges and pokeing phases that make radcs so strong.

melees splitpush though. I rather send a jax/trynd/ire/riven solo to a sidelane after 20min than a cait/mf/graves.
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
April 24 2013 11:37 GMT
#3267
lack of effective bruiser+support lanes doesnt help
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
April 24 2013 11:48 GMT
#3268
On April 24 2013 20:16 kongoline wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 19:53 Mensol wrote:
I've played Lee Singa top lane other day and it felt super weak -_- #buffleesinga

give me some suggestions please :3

sadly best suggestion is dont play lee unless u r 10x more skilled than ur opponent (or atleast hit the skill cap so u can do sick things with him)

btw cant decide FMJ vs Debonair Jayce, which skin is better?

I think it's pretty funny that Lee Sin is basically balanced around making sick plays
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-24 11:55:32
April 24 2013 11:49 GMT
#3269
On April 24 2013 17:08 Dusty wrote:
I think Melee carries suck because their kits are awful in LoL. Why pick Yi, Trynd, GP, Fiora when you can be Irelia, Jax, Darius, Hecarim, Khazix, Nasus, Renekton, etc. All of those in the latter group have some major things in comming: High base damage, high scaling and relevancy while being able to build tanky. Compare it to DotA where melee carries are godlike because their kits are really strong and scale really well with items.


Irelia,Jax,Darius,Hecarim,Khazix,Nasus,Renekton etc. ARE MELEE CARRIES if you trying to make a comparison to dota. People just completely misuse the terminology not realizing you can't just compare games and then get into this rut. Melee carries in dota get maybe 2 offensive items then rest are either defensive or hybrid offensive/defensive. It's just dota has far more pronounced powercurving so obviously it looks like they do so much more because they just do relative to everyone else. LoL specifically removed power curving at the level dota has it so you are never going to get the same effect. Add to the fact that the map is way smaller so it's incredibly hard to zone heroes out the way you do in a safe lane. This means you have to have a strong laner to actually get anywhere which means melee kits can't be geared to be super weak early but super strong later(Which is almost against LoL design anyway).
Dusty
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3359 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-24 12:02:25
April 24 2013 11:54 GMT
#3270
On April 24 2013 20:16 kongoline wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 19:53 Mensol wrote:
I've played Lee Singa top lane other day and it felt super weak -_- #buffleesinga

give me some suggestions please :3

sadly best suggestion is dont play lee unless u r 10x more skilled than ur opponent (or atleast hit the skill cap so u can do sick things with him)

btw cant decide FMJ vs Debonair Jayce, which skin is better?


Flip a coin, they're both awesome

On April 24 2013 20:49 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 17:08 Dusty wrote:
I think Melee carries suck because their kits are awful in LoL. Why pick Yi, Trynd, GP, Fiora when you can be Irelia, Jax, Darius, Hecarim, Khazix, Nasus, Renekton, etc. All of those in the latter group have some major things in comming: High base damage, high scaling and relevancy while being able to build tanky. Compare it to DotA where melee carries are godlike because their kits are really strong and scale really well with items.


Irelia,Jax,Darius,Hecarim,Khazix,Nasus,Renekton etc. ARE MELEE CARRIES if you trying to make a comparison to dota. People just completely misuse the terminology not realizing you can't just compare games and then get into this rut.


yeah I suppose you and clickrush are right. I still stand by my opinion that fiora/trynd/yi just have awful competitive kits compared to the rest of the melee champions because of their lack of CC/burst
Mensol
Profile Joined September 2012
14536 Posts
April 24 2013 12:01 GMT
#3271
On April 24 2013 20:16 kongoline wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 19:53 Mensol wrote:
I've played Lee Singa top lane other day and it felt super weak -_- #buffleesinga

give me some suggestions please :3

sadly best suggestion is dont play lee unless u r 10x more skilled than ur opponent (or atleast hit the skill cap so u can do sick things with him)

btw cant decide FMJ vs Debonair Jayce, which skin is better?

you better open FMJ because he'll be 1350 rp pretty soon.

also FMJ has pretty cool voice.
If you don't know what the fuck you are doing, how are your enemies supposed to know what the fuck you are doing. - imaqtpie on NA teams at Worlds.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-24 12:23:42
April 24 2013 12:22 GMT
#3272
On April 24 2013 20:54 Dusty wrote:
yeah I suppose you and clickrush are right. I still stand by my opinion that fiora/trynd/yi just have awful competitive kits compared to the rest of the melee champions because of their lack of CC/burst


That could very well be true. I just feel both riot and the community keep thinking they are different so they will never be balanced for competitive play because of this. So part of the solution is fixing peoples perception of them. This whole "Bruiser" and "AD melee carry" stuff is hurting the champions more than helping.

Just reading the reddit thread about this I see so much false information about how Dota works. Riot is notoriously stupid when it comes to how dota works so I don't see why this comparison has even developed.
Serelitz
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands2895 Posts
April 24 2013 12:35 GMT
#3273
On April 24 2013 21:01 Mensol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 20:16 kongoline wrote:
On April 24 2013 19:53 Mensol wrote:
I've played Lee Singa top lane other day and it felt super weak -_- #buffleesinga

give me some suggestions please :3

sadly best suggestion is dont play lee unless u r 10x more skilled than ur opponent (or atleast hit the skill cap so u can do sick things with him)

btw cant decide FMJ vs Debonair Jayce, which skin is better?

you better open FMJ because he'll be 1350 rp pretty soon.

also FMJ has pretty cool voice.


FMJ has a cool voice but he's ugly as shit other than that IMO. Either way it comes down to opinion, Debonair is more 'smooth' and less inventor and FMJ is kinda vice versa.
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
April 24 2013 13:20 GMT
#3274
On April 24 2013 21:35 Serelitz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 21:01 Mensol wrote:
On April 24 2013 20:16 kongoline wrote:
On April 24 2013 19:53 Mensol wrote:
I've played Lee Singa top lane other day and it felt super weak -_- #buffleesinga

give me some suggestions please :3

sadly best suggestion is dont play lee unless u r 10x more skilled than ur opponent (or atleast hit the skill cap so u can do sick things with him)

btw cant decide FMJ vs Debonair Jayce, which skin is better?

you better open FMJ because he'll be 1350 rp pretty soon.

also FMJ has pretty cool voice.


FMJ has a cool voice but he's ugly as shit other than that IMO. Either way it comes down to opinion, Debonair is more 'smooth' and less inventor and FMJ is kinda vice versa.


Debonair better for more "Cool Guys Don't Look at Acceleration Gate/Shockwave Gibs." Bond, James fucking Bond.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-24 13:22:39
April 24 2013 13:22 GMT
#3275
i noticed some players use 1x 0.28AD glyph so their run page shows 16AD not 15, i changed it myself (well its 1 dmg vs 1 mr) but my ingame lvl1 damage didnt change, does it work at all or its some urban legend?
Keniji
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands2569 Posts
April 24 2013 13:27 GMT
#3276
On April 24 2013 22:22 kongoline wrote:
i noticed some players use 1x 0.28AD glyph so their run page shows 16AD not 15, i changed it myself (well its 1 dmg vs 1 mr) but my ingame lvl1 damage didnt change, does it work at all or its some urban legend?


League does not round. The display is rounded, but the number they calculate with isn't.

So no, It doesn't work.
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
April 24 2013 13:29 GMT
#3277
well there goes 205 IP i never see again ^^
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
April 24 2013 13:29 GMT
#3278
On April 24 2013 19:34 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 18:41 Osmoses wrote:
Problem with so-called melee-carries is lategame. They get destroyed in seconds in teamfights.


Not always. Jax, Irelia, and Riven if they're well itemized can do some sick damage unless they're just completely locked down by crowd control.

Maybe it's different for Irelia in Season 3 but it used to be that even if you were underfarmed relative to their adc or top laner you could still do significant damage to their adc before you got killed, and if you were decently farmed you were blowing their adc or ap carry before they had a chance to respond. Same goes for Jax and Riven.

And the thing about Jax/Irelia/Riven is you can itemize both tankiness and damage and it's really your choice on how you approach it. You can grab randuins/something tanky along with your damage items. Granted it's a bit more then what adc's have to do, but hey it's a melee champ. What did you expect?

So? Melee Carries in DOTA do the same thing - they get pretty fucking tanky.

What you need to be a carry is sustained DPS, whether it's from consistent autoattack steroids (Jax) or low cooldown abilities that you can space out in a fight (Riven) with mobility (all of the above) and stickiness (all of the above) and maybe some durability on their kit so they can squeeze more offense into their itemization (Counterstrike, Valor, Grandmaster activation)
jpak
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States5045 Posts
April 24 2013 13:30 GMT
#3279
Shy surpasses Maknoon in the All Stars standing in Korea!

[image loading]
CJ Entusman #50! #1 클템 fan TL!
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-24 13:45:03
April 24 2013 13:44 GMT
#3280
On April 24 2013 22:30 jpak wrote:
Shy surpasses Maknoon in the All Stars standing in Korea!
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

I hope they do a 1v1 showdown like SoaZ and Wickd.
Prev 1 162 163 164 165 166 210 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
12:00
Bonus Cup #2
uThermal385
SteadfastSC120
Liquipedia
RongYI Cup
11:00
Group D
Maru vs SolarLIVE!
Cyan vs TBD
RotterdaM1237
ComeBackTV 1115
IndyStarCraft 368
Harstem238
BRAT_OK 166
Rex126
3DClanTV 99
EnkiAlexander 41
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1237
uThermal 385
IndyStarCraft 368
Harstem 238
BRAT_OK 166
Rex 126
SteadfastSC 120
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 6429
Sea 4166
Rain 3937
Hyuk 1650
Jaedong 1118
Shuttle 781
Mini 676
EffOrt 577
Larva 541
Stork 487
[ Show more ]
GuemChi 465
BeSt 434
firebathero 383
actioN 318
ZerO 247
Light 242
Last 219
hero 196
ggaemo 173
Rush 160
Hyun 114
Soulkey 107
Pusan 87
Killer 79
Sharp 76
Mind 73
Mong 73
Barracks 54
Yoon 50
Backho 33
sorry 27
Free 26
yabsab 24
Hm[arnc] 22
soO 18
GoRush 16
zelot 16
Noble 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
Shine 10
JulyZerg 8
Icarus 6
Terrorterran 3
Dota 2
420jenkins1437
Gorgc1243
qojqva565
Fuzer 197
XcaliburYe126
canceldota56
Counter-Strike
zeus1489
edward145
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King72
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor232
Other Games
gofns13155
singsing2041
Liquid`RaSZi591
Sick151
XaKoH 147
ToD47
ZerO(Twitch)13
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Gemini_19 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 8
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2412
Upcoming Events
BSL 21
2h 9m
Replay Cast
11h 9m
Wardi Open
1d 1h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 4h
OSC
1d 11h
Replay Cast
1d 20h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
HomeStory Cup
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
HomeStory Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-24
OSC Championship Season 13
Tektek Cup #1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W6
Escore Tournament S1: W7
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.