EPTMadLife (81%)
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[Patch 3.05: Balance Update] General Discussion - Page 163
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
god | ||
Chexx
Korea (South)11232 Posts
I think the lowest I saw was 70% ^^ | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On April 24 2013 09:33 ItsFunToLose wrote: + Show Spoiler + This whole "binary" nonsense needs to stop. If there's a point where melee ADC's are viable by tweaking a kit, its a proof of concept. There is clearly a gradient of options in between OP and UP. Fiora's Riposte now also grants her a shield that scales with the damage she would have recieved + a modest AD ratio. or Fiora's Riposte now has 1/2/3/4/5 charges that may be reactivated within a short period of time to block incoming attacks. If one of your charges fails to block an attack(within the 1? second timer), the remaining charges are lost. Master Yi's alpha strike and meditate now scale with AD instead of AP, but meditate makes you untargetable. It is 100% possible to balance melee auto attackers(riven is not a melee carry, she is the perfect archetype for an AD Caster, Req.) My point is that yango said a kit can't make up for the fact that you have to buy a defensive item as a melee hero. I disagree with that statement 100%. It is entirely possible to give enough defensive tools to a melee hero to avoid/mitigate damage and still build 4 offensive items. If you gave Yi that kit I am pretty sure he would become EXTREMELY OP at ANY level of play. Personally I think Tryndamere and Master Yi are already viable at any level of play in solo queue and are situational in tournament play. I regularly see AD Yi jungle and AD Tryndamere top and to me it seems they win more often than they lose. Essentially I agree with Yango though - why does the definition for a "melee carry" have to be "a ranged carry in melee range". We already have Jax, Irelia, Riven, Master Yi (he even falls under your definition for melee carry, but somehow you think he's UP), Tryndamere (same with Yi). Edit: I'm obviously late to the discussion but that's what happens when you discuss interesting things while I'm asleep  | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On April 24 2013 16:11 EquilasH wrote: If you gave Yi that kit I am pretty sure he would become EXTREMELY OP at ANY level of play. Personally I think Tryndamere and Master Yi are already viable at any level of play in solo queue and are situational in tournament play. I regularly see AD Yi jungle and AD Tryndamere top and to me it seems they win more often than they lose. Essentially I agree with Yango though - why does the definition for a "melee carry" have to be "a ranged carry in melee range". We already have Jax, Irelia, Riven, Master Yi (he even falls under your definition for melee carry, but somehow you think he's UP), Tryndamere (same with Yi). Edit: I'm obviously late to the discussion but that's what happens when you discuss interesting things while I'm asleep I think the more apt description for LoL is a melee champ that has both the kit and scaling to deal relevant amounts of damage when everybody is at the 5/6 item stage. Champs like Riven, irelia Jax and the like count while someone like Shen or Garen wouldn't. | ||
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Artok
Netherlands2219 Posts
On April 24 2013 17:16 wei2coolman wrote: Someone forgot about Season 1, early Season 2 GP. Dat shit was awesome. Best kit for melee ADC. Plox revert GP back to amazing status. #riotplox the most amazing rng only ulti ever, right? | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On April 24 2013 17:08 Dusty wrote: I think Melee carries suck because their kits are awful in LoL. Why pick Yi, Trynd, GP, Fiora when you can be Irelia, Jax, Darius, Hecarim, Khazix, Nasus, Renekton, etc. All of those in the latter group have some major things in comming: High base damage, high scaling and relevancy while being able to build tanky. Compare it to DotA where melee carries are godlike because their kits are really strong and scale really well with items. A large part of my point was that melee carries such as Yi and Tryndamere don't suck. I don't know how much you guys encounter jungle Yi or Trynd top on NA, but when I face it on EU it always seems damn strong. | ||
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Wrag
France124 Posts
On April 24 2013 17:32 Sufficiency wrote: Oh man, I don't know how to code in C++ at all now (haven't used it for 10+ years I think). This is going to take a while. Just get a Visual Studio C# Express edition (free) and do it in C#. | ||
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
On April 24 2013 18:09 EquilasH wrote: A large part of my point was that melee carries such as Yi and Tryndamere don't suck. I don't know how much you guys encounter jungle Yi or Trynd top on NA, but when I face it on EU it always seems damn strong. I know a dude that plays a lot of smite/tp jungle Yi (Mechzen on NA) and he either gets fed and carries or doesn't get fed and just loses because he's an un-fed Yi. Nobody plays Trynd top on NA as far as I know, except for yesterday where I opened nintendude's stream and he played him vs Nasus, which is probably one of the only lanes that Trynd can do decently in. Somewhat related, what elo/level are you playing on in EU Oh you know what, I am actually reminded of someone named KillerKast (I think) on NA that plays a lot of Fiora and he usually does well playing her mid. Maybe he's on to something with his playstyle, who knows. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 24 2013 18:23 Wrag wrote: Just get a Visual Studio C# Express edition (free) and do it in C#. And learn another language... ? I rather relearn c++.. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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Wrag
France124 Posts
On April 24 2013 18:32 Sufficiency wrote: And learn another language... ? I rather relearn c++.. Think of C# as naïve C/C++, almost identical syntax and none of all the technical trouble (pointers, unmanaged memory, etc). Just a suggestion  | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On April 24 2013 17:08 Dusty wrote: I think Melee carries suck because their kits are awful in LoL. Why pick Yi, Trynd, GP, Fiora when you can be Irelia, Jax, Darius, Hecarim, Khazix, Nasus, Renekton, etc. All of those in the latter group have some major things in comming: High base damage, high scaling and relevancy while being able to build tanky. Compare it to DotA where melee carries are godlike because their kits are really strong and scale really well with items. Melee carries in dota also have the advantage of 2 things 1.Casters generally have the base damages of leblanc, but no or minimal item scaling. This combined with BKB(magic immunity(some exceptions)) means that they generally fall off damage-wise as you approach lategame. 2. Gold distribution. Gold ratios in LoL towards lategame are generally around 1.0 for support, 1.2-4 for jungle, 1.3-1.5 for top, and 1.5-1.8 for mid/ADC. In Dota you'd have something like 1.0-2.0 for the supports, 2.5-3.5ish for the solos, and then roughly 4-6 for the hard carry. That has a lot to do with why carries look so incredibly godlike. | ||
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Gaslo
Finland951 Posts
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
On April 24 2013 19:01 Amui wrote: Melee carries in dota also have the advantage of 2 things 1.Casters generally have the base damages of leblanc, but no or minimal item scaling. This combined with BKB(magic immunity(some exceptions)) means that they generally fall off damage-wise as you approach lategame. 2. Gold distribution. Gold ratios in LoL towards lategame are generally around 1.0 for support, 1.2-4 for jungle, 1.3-1.5 for top, and 1.5-1.8 for mid/ADC. In Dota you'd have something like 1.0-2.0 for the supports, 2.5-3.5ish for the solos, and then roughly 4-6 for the hard carry. That has a lot to do with why carries look so incredibly godlike. Do they still have stunprocs in dota? Being able to keep your opponent permanently stunned did alot for melee viability as I recall (along with huge amounts of anti-fun for the opponent) | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
On April 24 2013 18:41 Osmoses wrote: Problem with so-called melee-carries is lategame. They get destroyed in seconds in teamfights. Not always. Jax, Irelia, and Riven if they're well itemized can do some sick damage unless they're just completely locked down by crowd control. Maybe it's different for Irelia in Season 3 but it used to be that even if you were underfarmed relative to their adc or top laner you could still do significant damage to their adc before you got killed, and if you were decently farmed you were blowing their adc or ap carry before they had a chance to respond. Same goes for Jax and Riven. And the thing about Jax/Irelia/Riven is you can itemize both tankiness and damage and it's really your choice on how you approach it. You can grab randuins/something tanky along with your damage items. Granted it's a bit more then what adc's have to do, but hey it's a melee champ. What did you expect? | ||
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