|
On April 24 2013 07:41 nafta wrote:
The diamondprox interview was pretty awesome but the translation was pretty awful.Like even at start he says he can't say that he is the best yet the translation is the opposite.
I wonder if the translator was some sort of PR+translator. Giving a translation that's not fully accurate, but one that they know will cause some drama/ excite people with the responses.
|
On April 24 2013 07:44 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 07:41 nafta wrote:
The diamondprox interview was pretty awesome but the translation was pretty awful.Like even at start he says he can't say that he is the best yet the translation is the opposite. I wonder if the translator was some sort of PR+translator. Giving a translation that's not fully accurate, but one that they know will cause some drama/ excite people with the responses.
Well he also cut like half of some answers.Doubt it honestly since everyone who sees it is wrong is just going to say it.
|
United States23745 Posts
|
I'm a soda guy. Suck it bean and leaf steepers.
|
no, its a long term thing like its never ever going to fucking happen
|
On April 24 2013 08:25 sob3k wrote:no, its a long term thing like its never ever going to fucking happen
Its not possible to make a melle carry in LoL. People need to realize that, lol. A melle carry would need to have at least the tankiness of a Bruiser Jungler + do the damage of an Ezreal building for damage (not the IBG builds), and that is the MINIMUM.
How ridiculously bad of an earlygame would said champion have to have to not be totally broken?
|
United States47024 Posts
The "melee carry" discussion is so asinine because people don't come to any agreement with what they want the term to mean.
Melee champ that has a focus on doing physical damage? We already have those. Renekton, Irelia, Olaf, etc.
Greater focus on scaling and not on base damages? Ok, fine, Kha'zix, Zed, etc.
Sustained damage over burst damage? Not a distinguishing factor because there are burst-oriented ranged carries as well (e.g. Graves).
AD-based melee that can build purely offensive items? Doesn't happen because of the fundamental nature of melee champs requiring defensive itemization. But "carry" is not defined by glass cannon either, so this is not a requirement.
So I don't even know what definition of "melee carry" people are using. I see *specific champions* that are weak (Fiora, AD Tryndamere/Yi), but I don't see those champs as defining a particular archetype that needs help.
|
it was called olaf, but then nerfbat
|
On April 24 2013 08:55 TheYango wrote:
The "melee carry" discussion is so asinine because people don't come to any agreement with what they want the term to mean.
A melee character who has damage comparable to ranged carries I suppose.
It's nice to think that these should be played in LoL, but they sound ridiculously scary.
|
United States47024 Posts
On April 24 2013 08:59 Dark_Chill wrote:
A melee character who has damage comparable to ranged carries I suppose.
Under what circumstances? At what timing? With what items?
The fundamental ability for a ranged carry to buy 6 offensive items and still function lategame isn't a problem of "melee carries" as an archetype. I don't see why making it possible for a melee to buy 6 offensive items and function is necessary.
Beyond that the reverse option is to make engagement ability strong enough/peeling power weak enough to demand that ranged carries itemize a similar amount of defense to melee carries, but that just pisses off ranged carry players more than it helps the melee carry players (AD carries already whined to hell and back about season 3 changes, which pushed AD itemization ever so slightly in this direction).
|
The reason they can't balance melee ADC's is because they keep making champions like elise and zac, that can build tanky, and still do tons of damage because of %max health damage. If fiora has to spend 7,000 gold on offensive stats just to do as much damage as an elise who bought sorcs and haunting guise, there's going to be a discrepancy between how much damage they deal in a fight before they die simply because elise lives longer.
|
Morello said this though,
Basically some items, but also play patterns that tend to have more escape potential or upfront burst. It'd make them more "assassin-y".
So I guess the plan right now is to make Fiora, Trynd, and Yi into Kha'zix/Zed.
|
Items. Damnit, I think I was just ninja'd
|
On April 24 2013 09:02 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 08:59 Dark_Chill wrote:
A melee character who has damage comparable to ranged carries I suppose. Under what circumstances? At what timing? With what items?
Lets ignore the Riot forums (who most of the complainers really just want their favorite character to be made into a Zed/Khazix-like assassin), and basically define a melle ADC as a melle character that, at some defined lategame item level (say 3-4 core items) can chunk down Tanks with the speed of a ranged AD Carry, without being instantly killed of course.
I'd like to see someone try to design a character like that, even in the abstract.
On April 24 2013 09:06 overt wrote:Morello said this though, Show nested quote +Basically some items, but also play patterns that tend to have more escape potential or upfront burst. It'd make them more "assassin-y". So I guess the plan right now is to make Fiora, Trynd, and Yi into Kha'zix/Zed.
Morello basically admitted that there would be no melle carries though. He's not saying they will be, just that melle carry is dead (if it ever lived).
|
United States47024 Posts
On April 24 2013 09:06 overt wrote:Morello said this though, Show nested quote +Basically some items, but also play patterns that tend to have more escape potential or upfront burst. It'd make them more "assassin-y". So I guess the plan right now is to make Fiora, Trynd, and Yi into Kha'zix/Zed.
Yi was already fundamentally assassin-y by nature of his kit--he's fundamentally reliant on getting resets to retain his combat power consistently through a fight.
On April 24 2013 09:08 cLutZ wrote:
Lets ignore the Riot forums (who most of the complainers really just want their favorite character to be made into a Zed/Khazix-like assassin), and basically define a melle ADC as a melle character that, at some defined lategame item level (say 3-4 core items) can chunk down Tanks with the speed of a ranged AD Carry, without being instantly killed of course.
I'd like to see someone try to design a character like that, even in the abstract.
That's not a valid issue though, because the fundamental nature of being ranged in this game is that at 4 core items, a ranged carry can have all 4 items be offensive items, while a melee carry must have at least 1-2 of those items be defensive.
At that point in the game, multiplicative scaling takes over as the predominant factor determining damage-dealing ability, not basic kit design, which is why every AD feels like they're strong damage dealers with 4 items regardless of their kits. So the only way to make melee carries deal comparable damage is to have ranged/melee itemization parity at that point. Which means either a) give melee carries so much inherent defense that they can function with 4 offensive items (not feasible), or b) shift the dynamic of the game to require ranged ADs to itemize significantly more defense to not die to offensive threats (again, AD players whined to hell and back about needing to build more defense in S3--you'd piss off more people than you'd please with this change).
The other option is to remove several modes of multiplicative damage (e.g. remove crit as a stat from the game) so that damage doesn't scale multiplicatively over as many stats.
|
United States23745 Posts
Just keep up the trend of copying some Dota items and bring in BKB haha. (Like adding Bottle)
|
On April 24 2013 09:08 cLutZ wrote:
I'd like to see someone try to design a character like that, even in the abstract.
.
Fiora's E now gives 0.25 movespeed per minion killed while active permanently.
Fiora's W, in addition to reflecting damage back to the attacker, now stores the raw(did the ad carry just crit me? lol) damage from the reflected auto attack and can be detonated in an area of effect by pressing W again.(2 seconds before going on CD with no AOE explosion)
done.
|
Korea (South)11232 Posts
Shy only 0,6% behind Maknoon.
|
On April 24 2013 09:06 overt wrote:Morello said this though, Show nested quote +Basically some items, but also play patterns that tend to have more escape potential or upfront burst. It'd make them more "assassin-y". So I guess the plan right now is to make Fiora, Trynd, and Yi into Kha'zix/Zed.
Fuck 'em. Fix Zed and Kha'Zix before making more "assassins" (ha ha) of their type.
|
On April 24 2013 09:09 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 09:06 overt wrote:Morello said this though, Basically some items, but also play patterns that tend to have more escape potential or upfront burst. It'd make them more "assassin-y". So I guess the plan right now is to make Fiora, Trynd, and Yi into Kha'zix/Zed. Yi was already fundamentally assassin-y by nature of his kit--he's fundamentally reliant on getting resets to retain his combat power consistently through a fight.
Yeah but that's what makes AP Yi strong. Whereas AD Yi is relatively weak. Which I don't necessarily think is a problem. If anything Yi is the only one of those three traditional "melee carries" that's kind of viable. edit: Although yeah, AD Yi can assassinate people pretty quickly too but why play AD Yi when you can kill entire teams with AP Yi?
If they made Fiora/Trynd more bursty or more assassin-y that'd be fine with me. Or they could just leave them alone. I know that most of the community would disagree but I think that both Fiora and Tryndamere can work as niche picks in the right team comps. In fact there was a very brief period of time where AD Trynd top was common in high elo solo queue and he saw some play in NA LANs in S2. I believe it was v8 who ran it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
