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On April 22 2013 06:33 Badboyrune wrote:
Ok how are you supposed to lane against draven? It doesn't matter what support I play I just always get stomped vs him. If you play poke he will just outpoke you because his auto attacks deal three times more damage than any of your spells, and if you play engage he will just kill you because he deals three times more damage than you ad. I have no clue what to do
Taric I guess.
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On April 22 2013 06:02 Craton wrote:
In order to fix Thresh you must:
A.) Completely gut lantern. MASSIVELY reduce its range and make it tether if Thresh moves too far away. Something like 400 cast range, 600 tether range (maybe less).
B.) Greatly reduce the range and duration of hook. Fix the bug that allows you to cast and then flash to ignore the windup.
C.) Greatly nerf the amount of free stats from his passive and place a hard, level-based cap on how much you can get.
glad you aren't doing the balancing then, you basically want to nerf all the things that make him unique instead of just hitting his base damages/stats so that you pay in tankiness and damage for the utility.
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On April 22 2013 06:33 Badboyrune wrote:
Ok how are you supposed to lane against draven? It doesn't matter what support I play I just always get stomped vs him. If you play poke he will just outpoke you because his auto attacks deal three times more damage than any of your spells, and if you play engage he will just kill you because he deals three times more damage than you ad. I have no clue what to do
nami, ball where his axe lands, e adc, enjoy half hp draven, if youre 6 follow it up with ulti and free kill.
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On April 22 2013 06:43 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 06:02 Craton wrote:
In order to fix Thresh you must:
A.) Completely gut lantern. MASSIVELY reduce its range and make it tether if Thresh moves too far away. Something like 400 cast range, 600 tether range (maybe less).
B.) Greatly reduce the range and duration of hook. Fix the bug that allows you to cast and then flash to ignore the windup.
C.) Greatly nerf the amount of free stats from his passive and place a hard, level-based cap on how much you can get. glad you aren't doing the balancing then, you basically want to nerf all the things that make him unique instead of just hitting his base damages/stats so that you pay in tankiness and damage for the utility.
I'll happily gut his "fun" for the sake of balance and his toxicity.
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how about instead of nerfing thresh they just bring the rest of the supports up to thresh-level? :3
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I would not play Nami vs Draven. Skillshot cc and a buff that depends on attacking Draven. You're also fairly squishy, so say the other lane has Taric or someone similar, you're pretty much dead if you screw up once.
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United States23745 Posts
On April 22 2013 06:49 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 06:43 VayneAuthority wrote:On April 22 2013 06:02 Craton wrote:
In order to fix Thresh you must:
A.) Completely gut lantern. MASSIVELY reduce its range and make it tether if Thresh moves too far away. Something like 400 cast range, 600 tether range (maybe less).
B.) Greatly reduce the range and duration of hook. Fix the bug that allows you to cast and then flash to ignore the windup.
C.) Greatly nerf the amount of free stats from his passive and place a hard, level-based cap on how much you can get. glad you aren't doing the balancing then, you basically want to nerf all the things that make him unique instead of just hitting his base damages/stats so that you pay in tankiness and damage for the utility. I'll happily gut his "fun" for the sake of balance and his toxicity.
What toxicity? He has a strong kit, it's not toxic like fucking AP Rengar and Trynd.
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What if Thresh was melee instead of ranged? I'm terribly at theorycrafting but I kind of entertained the idea of Thresh being melee so he had to be more careful about auto harrassing with Q passive, but then he'd just be like Blitz all over again.
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On April 22 2013 06:50 Eiii wrote:
how about instead of nerfing thresh they just bring the rest of the supports up to thresh-level? :3
Because Riots balance philospohy is "Is it too good? Nerf. Is it too bad and the angle of the shadow of one of the great pyramids is the inverse of amount of Qs in my alphabet soup for lunch? Buff."
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On April 22 2013 06:52 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 06:49 Craton wrote:On April 22 2013 06:43 VayneAuthority wrote:On April 22 2013 06:02 Craton wrote:
In order to fix Thresh you must:
A.) Completely gut lantern. MASSIVELY reduce its range and make it tether if Thresh moves too far away. Something like 400 cast range, 600 tether range (maybe less).
B.) Greatly reduce the range and duration of hook. Fix the bug that allows you to cast and then flash to ignore the windup.
C.) Greatly nerf the amount of free stats from his passive and place a hard, level-based cap on how much you can get. glad you aren't doing the balancing then, you basically want to nerf all the things that make him unique instead of just hitting his base damages/stats so that you pay in tankiness and damage for the utility. I'll happily gut his "fun" for the sake of balance and his toxicity. What toxicity? He has a strong kit, it's not toxic like fucking AP Rengar and Trynd.
Do you like laning vs thresh?
It puts you in a helpless position because literally you can't be aggressive because his disengage is too good, and if he puts his lantern down behind him you have no idea if there is a jungler coming to wreck your shit from 1000 range and you can't be passive because Thresh scales harder than you.
That and if for whatever reason the lane goes sour a Thresh can just kill you over and over again.
Its not fun to lane against. Honestly I'd rather play a 1v2, I feel like I have more effective and meaningful choices to make. And I've been asking for the last three pages how to play against thresh without just losing, and no one has had any awnsers. No one.
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Uh... "earlier Blitz" was OP? His ability to hook wasn't changed, it's just that he has the potential to do so much that Riot decided to take a dump on the average outcome to compensate for the good ones.
Also I got carried pretty hard (mostly tank Zac wrecking the enemy Cho/Malph/Jarv by himself while Ziggs drops his minefield under Varus and plays the poke game), still as bad as ever at AD. That and I expect even if I had played decent Graves' laning is probably pretty bad against Varus and Sona > Lulu.
I'm not even too sure how I should lane Graves. Q doesn't seem to do much more damage than the other ADs' damage spells unless I get close, but I feel like it's too easy to disengage from me (and I expose myself too much in case the trade goes wrong) if I EQ them, on top of easily ending up oom.
W still pretty good for hiding incoming junglers from them, though. Maybe I should use it on the support when I engage, to deny vision from him so we can 2v1 the enemy AD for 2 seconds? And try BotRK after BT, zeal feels like it doesn't give me enough AS, his base is really so, so low...
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On April 22 2013 06:51 Dark_Chill wrote:
I would not play Nami vs Draven. Skillshot cc and a buff that depends on attacking Draven. You're also fairly squishy, so say the other lane has Taric or someone similar, you're pretty much dead if you screw up once.
auto q auto with ezreal or mf gives full use of nami's e which is easily doable during nami's q effect, skillshots are easier to land against draven due to how he works, and if you get stunned by taric that didnt flash as nami youre doing something wrong.
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This idea of Toxic is so arbitrary. Don't know why this community is so obsessed by something that is so meaningless
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United States23745 Posts
On April 22 2013 06:56 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 06:52 onlywonderboy wrote:On April 22 2013 06:49 Craton wrote:On April 22 2013 06:43 VayneAuthority wrote:On April 22 2013 06:02 Craton wrote:
In order to fix Thresh you must:
A.) Completely gut lantern. MASSIVELY reduce its range and make it tether if Thresh moves too far away. Something like 400 cast range, 600 tether range (maybe less).
B.) Greatly reduce the range and duration of hook. Fix the bug that allows you to cast and then flash to ignore the windup.
C.) Greatly nerf the amount of free stats from his passive and place a hard, level-based cap on how much you can get. glad you aren't doing the balancing then, you basically want to nerf all the things that make him unique instead of just hitting his base damages/stats so that you pay in tankiness and damage for the utility. I'll happily gut his "fun" for the sake of balance and his toxicity. What toxicity? He has a strong kit, it's not toxic like fucking AP Rengar and Trynd. Do you like laning vs thresh? It puts you in a helpless position because literally you can't be aggressive because his disengage is too good, and if he puts his lantern down behind him you have no idea if there is a jungler coming to wreck your shit from 1000 range and you can't be passive because Thresh scales harder than you. That and if for whatever reason the lane goes sour a Thresh can just kill you over and over again. Its not fun to lane against. Honestly I'd rather play a 1v2, I feel like I have more effective and meaningful choices to make. And I've been asking for the last three pages how to play against thresh without just losing, and no one has had any awnsers. No one.
I've never had that much trouble against Tresh, although they haven't been good at lantern ganks so that probably made it a tad easier. I played Zyra and just used my range so abuse him. Worked out well enough.
Edit: I also just circumvent the problem by playing him myself 
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United States47024 Posts
On April 22 2013 06:59 Numy wrote:
This idea of Toxic is so arbitrary. Don't know why this community is so obsessed by something that is so meaningless
Just one of those buzzwords that Riot's used that doesn't actually have any real meaning, but the community latched onto.
Just like "passive gameplay" was the buzzword all Season 1.
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On April 22 2013 06:53 Nos- wrote:
What if Thresh was melee instead of ranged? I'm terribly at theorycrafting but I kind of entertained the idea of Thresh being melee ranged, but then he'd just be like Blitz all over again.
I've thought about it, and with no dash or point and click cc, this might actually make him more or less tolerable. Maybe lower the slow duration on his E and he should actually be fairly balanced. He'll still be on the strong side, but nothing incredibly problematic.
Also, I really wouldn't mind Leona getting some buffs in exchange for some mana cost nerfs. I feel that for most of the supports, you have to at least pay some amount of attention to mana, but Leona is just the complete opposite. If her passive was, say, based of her own magic penetration and her ratios were raised a little higher, I feel that Leona could get some interesting build diversity. Maybe not viable, but it could be fun.
Just throwing ideas around, haven't thought much about actual numbers.
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If you think Thresh is OP, go spam him in games and find out what makes him lose. This goes for any champion really. And if it turns out he's actually OP and you go on a 10 game winning streak that's good too. Win-win situation.
On April 22 2013 07:06 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 06:59 Numy wrote:
This idea of Toxic is so arbitrary. Don't know why this community is so obsessed by something that is so meaningless Just one of those buzzwords that Riot's used that doesn't actually have any real meaning, but the community latched onto. Just like "passive gameplay" was the buzzword all Season 1.
I like to think of "toxic" as "mechanics that might actually cause players to quit the game". There aren't really that many examples (pre-rework-pre-nerf eve) and the term is highly overused.
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On April 22 2013 07:10 thenexusp wrote:
If you think Thresh is OP, go spam him in games and find out what makes him lose. This goes for any champion really. And if it turns out he's actually OP and you go on a 10 game winning streak that's good too. Win-win situation.
Haha agreed for the most part. There are situations like when you're playing support and Rengar/Tryn/Shaco pops out of nowhere and kills your AD carry while you're a top laner and you can't stop them, but that's just the nature of 5v5 games.
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They just need to increase thresh mana costs and he'd be ok in lane.
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On April 22 2013 07:04 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 06:56 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2013 06:52 onlywonderboy wrote:On April 22 2013 06:49 Craton wrote:On April 22 2013 06:43 VayneAuthority wrote:On April 22 2013 06:02 Craton wrote:
In order to fix Thresh you must:
A.) Completely gut lantern. MASSIVELY reduce its range and make it tether if Thresh moves too far away. Something like 400 cast range, 600 tether range (maybe less).
B.) Greatly reduce the range and duration of hook. Fix the bug that allows you to cast and then flash to ignore the windup.
C.) Greatly nerf the amount of free stats from his passive and place a hard, level-based cap on how much you can get. glad you aren't doing the balancing then, you basically want to nerf all the things that make him unique instead of just hitting his base damages/stats so that you pay in tankiness and damage for the utility. I'll happily gut his "fun" for the sake of balance and his toxicity. What toxicity? He has a strong kit, it's not toxic like fucking AP Rengar and Trynd. Do you like laning vs thresh? It puts you in a helpless position because literally you can't be aggressive because his disengage is too good, and if he puts his lantern down behind him you have no idea if there is a jungler coming to wreck your shit from 1000 range and you can't be passive because Thresh scales harder than you. That and if for whatever reason the lane goes sour a Thresh can just kill you over and over again. Its not fun to lane against. Honestly I'd rather play a 1v2, I feel like I have more effective and meaningful choices to make. And I've been asking for the last three pages how to play against thresh without just losing, and no one has had any awnsers. No one. I've never had that much trouble against Tresh, although they haven't been good at lantern ganks so that probably made it a tad easier. I played Zyra and just used my range so abuse him. Worked out well enough. Edit: I also just circumvent the problem by playing him myself
Except his Q range is same range as you E, and if he hook you you die to that all in.
On April 22 2013 07:10 thenexusp wrote:
If you think Thresh is OP, go spam him in games and find out what makes him lose. This goes for any champion really. And if it turns out he's actually OP and you go on a 10 game winning streak that's good too. Win-win situation.
You're telling me you dont think its strange that not a single person on TL knows how to play against Thresh without the thresh being bad?
<_<
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EPT
