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On April 21 2013 23:51 sylverfyre wrote:
My only point is that 5hit was saying " 90% of communication is stuff that doesn't even have to be said. "
They say it anyway.
pareto disagrees
he says 80%.
/joke
a large part of learning how to communicate with your team is knowing what you need to say and streamlining it so that you know what needs to be said. some people need more info, some people need less, sometimes people are saying stuff so it clogs up the airwaves so you need to control it, some people need to be more cheery, some people need to be more serious, etc.
it's fun stuff really
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Now that you mention it, I think there was this time I watched you stream Alaric, and you were Vlad and you always got hit by Ziggs bombs for free. Even in unfavorable matchups you can't let yourself be a punching bag imoimo.
Today I had a game where I played support Nunu. It's much worse post nerf and I maxed iceball. I started warding the enemy tribrush which is something I rarely do after 1 Jarvan gank. I was able to find Jarvan and Leona had to initiate on us with her ult after missing Zenith blade meaning both my AD and I were able to escape with only my flash burnt. Little improvements.
Improving at LoL is a slow process even if you make the effort to improve. It's 10 steps forward and 9 steps back because even if you do a good thing one game you might make a mistake the next.
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Why are people even attempting to defend elementz lol. He's a fucking pro player, who's JOB is to play well in LoL, but he didn't live up to what he is expected to do. The fact that he still is fricken platinum on the NA servers in s3 as a pro player is only one small example of why he's just not living up to his title of "professional" gamer. Saint being a "dick" has literally nothing to do with elementz performance. If your boss tells you "get me this report by next week" and you turn in some mediocre garbage and your boss gets pissed off, well he has every fuckikg right to be pissed off. It's not your bosses fault you gave him garbage. Even if he was a dick and posted the bad report for all to see, him being a dick to you doesn't make your faults any less true just because you're now a victim of the big bad meanieface.
Idk why but people try to make progamers as the same status as a real life job yet when it has to do with consequences, such as a mediocre work ethic that leads them to be fired, it's suddenly y's fault, or it's "just a game." As if the progamer who fucked up isn't liable for their own mistakes because it's "just a game" and "everyone makes mistakes!" Regardless of the fact that Elementz has improved a lot since he got benched from CLG, everyone else has also improved considerably. Perhaps it's just elementz has reached his skill cap, or maybe he just has no work ethic, but at the end of the day his performance is not good enough in comparison to other NA supports, and defintely far from the best of the world supports. Maybe rhux isn't either and time will tell, but benching elementz who has always been the weakest link on curse is not a bad thing and is completely justified.
To me it's good to see chaox and elementz being benched/kicked off the main team. Either they will eventually work harder to improve or they'll leave for good, and it allows new players who could be far better play in their stead, for example, wildturtle. I know rhux is a really good player overall too so hopefully it will strengthen curse as well. I hope NA teams begin doin more of this to either motivate players to improve or find better players in general, rather than keep an old crowd that might just not be good anymore.
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On April 22 2013 03:11 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Thresh changes when he needs nerfs. Still always going to be banned until he's nerfed. Especially his passive. Unless you are getting completely zoned out of your lane, in which case you're losing anyways, he gets more free armor then any champion gets at equivilent levels. I had one thresh at 30 minutes with 80 free armor and ap. That's 3000g worth of stats from his passive. And almost all of it was front loaded in his levels, obviously once teamfights start you won't be picking up hardly any souls.
It's not actually that much free stats, once you take into account his zero armor scaling per level and his mediocre AP scaling.
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it's too bad they cant get a real support cuz it's pretty bad to suddenly break up your bot lane this late into the season.
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On April 22 2013 04:32 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 03:11 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Thresh changes when he needs nerfs. Still always going to be banned until he's nerfed. Especially his passive. Unless you are getting completely zoned out of your lane, in which case you're losing anyways, he gets more free armor then any champion gets at equivilent levels. I had one thresh at 30 minutes with 80 free armor and ap. That's 3000g worth of stats from his passive. And almost all of it was front loaded in his levels, obviously once teamfights start you won't be picking up hardly any souls. It's not actually that much free stats, once you take into account his zero armor scaling per level and his mediocre AP scaling.
And not all that front loaded according to the wiki.
The first soul will grant 1 bonus ability power and armor. Subsequent souls will grant 0.005 less, down to a minimum of 0.5 per stack. Souls cap at 999999
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rhux was number one on ladder season 2... he knows how the game works.
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well, since they finished top 2 and are guaranteed a spot in next season, it wouldn't be too bad if they fail in the playoffs next week. And after that they have over a month to get that cop+rhux synergy going I think because of the all stars shenenigans.
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On April 22 2013 04:32 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 03:11 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Thresh changes when he needs nerfs. Still always going to be banned until he's nerfed. Especially his passive. Unless you are getting completely zoned out of your lane, in which case you're losing anyways, he gets more free armor then any champion gets at equivilent levels. I had one thresh at 30 minutes with 80 free armor and ap. That's 3000g worth of stats from his passive. And almost all of it was front loaded in his levels, obviously once teamfights start you won't be picking up hardly any souls. It's not actually that much free stats, once you take into account his zero armor scaling per level and his mediocre AP scaling.
Actually, yeah, yeah it is that much free stats. Consider he gets free AD too from his souls with his Q passive. It is actually pretty absurd because thats basically 1AD per soul because even if he doesn't get the AD% bonus from it hew always gets the magic damage from collecting a soul. That means basically his free stats is more like 6000g if he has +80 Armor, AP, and AD.
I think thresh is ridiculous. He just has everything. Absolutely everything.
Why play Blitz when Thresh has Identical CC, more damage, more utility. Why play Janna when Thresh has more damage. Why play lulu when Thresh has hard CC, and better initiation/disengaging skills.
Its not even like Thresh has everything but other supports outshine him in certain aspects. Literally the dude has everything and he outshines everyone else with it. No champ in the game has such strong gank assist. No other champ in the game gets all his teammates a get out of jail free card. No other champ in the game gets that much free damage and tankiness.
Dudes winrates are off the charts. Aside from his first week of play where he posted low numbers, his winrate been like +55% since forever.
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Well he's still barely on the charts for highest win rates this month. Behind Rumble, Janna, Sona
I still think Mid lux must have a 70% win rate considering how many people play support Lux and how her overall win rate is like 50%. Hate support Lux... >.<
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On April 22 2013 04:25 obesechicken13 wrote:
Now that you mention it, I think there was this time I watched you stream Alaric, and you were Vlad and you always got hit by Ziggs bombs for free. Even in unfavorable matchups you can't let yourself be a punching bag imoimo.
I don't stream and I don't play Vlad either, dunno who you confused me with though.
On April 22 2013 04:22 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:41 Alaric wrote:
TL;DR my common sense recently kicked in for its semestrial quota, and improving at the game actually makes you feel sad when the amount of progress only underlines how bad you are. :< Yeah, creep advantage is so huge now because you can't get -4 minion damage reduction, which means whoever has more minions can generally fight with impunity.
I made a mental note that even though I would have to try at least once (for science), I shouldn't expect it to work with Jax's impressive pushing prowess against a Riven or Renekton who can blast the wave away while attacking you. 
About Thresh, his passive is huge. Assuming you get souls at a steady enough pace, you'll have as much armour as another champion at a given level because when you ding you already have the new level value (meaning when both bot lanes are about to hit 5, Thresh is at level 5 armour while the other support is at level 4). He also has pretty good base armour and HP considering he's a ranged champion.
Also once it takes long enough to level up, Thresh will overcome standard champions' armour, a slong as he gets to get souls (he doesn't suffer as much as others from being behind because he can still maintain good armour, even 2 levels behind the enemy team, too), which means he probably likes to lengthen the laning/skirmishing phase and delay the grouping/roaming phase, which goes well with his hook that allows him to catch people and create opportunities, and with his lantern for ganks.
Imagine how tanky Thresh would get if s2 meta was still active with its 25 minutes norush laning phases. @_@
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On April 22 2013 05:11 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 04:25 obesechicken13 wrote:
Now that you mention it, I think there was this time I watched you stream Alaric, and you were Vlad and you always got hit by Ziggs bombs for free. Even in unfavorable matchups you can't let yourself be a punching bag imoimo. I don't stream and I don't play Vlad either, dunno who you confused me with though.
The plot thickens....
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On April 22 2013 02:41 Alaric wrote:
So I realised my champ pool probably holds me back top, not that I'd suddenly become a beast if I made changes, but as in it makes my progress slower. With mainly champs like Jax, Irelia, Wukong, Xin, and the odd Pantheon/Nunu/Udyr (I gave up on Olaf after the Q nerfs and the popularity of ranged tops), I have a reoccuring pattern of weak early, good scaling, reliance on farm and lack of ranged harass/cs-ing, which made me take a habit of running 9-21 masteries, defensive quints and letting the lane push toward my tower to try and freeze it, giving up on cs if a stronger opponent (Renekton, Riven, Kayle) threatens me early, and to play conservatively/passively until I reach a sweet spot where I start fighting back, abusing the scaling on said champs.
Which in turn meant that any death and badly timed recall would cost me a metric ton of cs and exp, and in general a lane easily snowballing on me if misplaying (or stuff like camped/getting dove by the jungler) against an strong early game champ, with zoning a bane for my impact on the game.
Then I decided to try and push the lane early on to see if it'd make my opponent more wary of harassing me (after a Kayle just pressed E, pushed me to tower then harassed), which seemed counter-intuitive to me because:
- the enemy jungler may come and I don't want to lose cs because of it, or worse lose exp/have to back because I want to hit key levels on those champs and then get a core item/component asap.
- I don't have ranged cs-ing on my main champs (like Pantheon/Olaf/Nunu have) so if I fuck up my wave control I'll lose cs while under the enemy tower (eg. ranged minions vs ranged minions).
- If it isn't enough to make me win a potential trade/fight, then the pushing wave will allow the opposing champ to zone me and it'll be even worse than losing cs to my tower but still getting exp.
Turns out they're generally afraid so far, and even in theorical bad match-ups I'm managing to do well when pressuring woth wards up against ganks, and I'm not camped as often as I thought I would/should be.
On one hand I'm only Silver I so it's probably my opponents being bad and instinctively cowering instead of realising they can still beat me, and if I rely on that I'll get smashed one of those days (beating a Gold IV Yorick as Jax pre-6 still felt good). On the other I'd probably have thought of that way earlier if I'd kept playing Olaf against melees, or stuck with Pantheon, eg. kept a diversified champ pool. >_>
TL;DR my common sense recently kicked in for its semestrial quota, and improving at the game actually makes you feel sad when the amount of progress only underlines how bad you are. :<
If you can play Jax/Irelia competently, you can play Renekton. He's another "Jump in, burst with a few abilities + a couple autos, jump back out" style in lane top. I think the only hard part with me learning Renekton was learning the limits of my abilities to better judge when I should be going all-in vs burst trade.
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On April 22 2013 05:15 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 05:11 Alaric wrote:On April 22 2013 04:25 obesechicken13 wrote:
Now that you mention it, I think there was this time I watched you stream Alaric, and you were Vlad and you always got hit by Ziggs bombs for free. Even in unfavorable matchups you can't let yourself be a punching bag imoimo. I don't stream and I don't play Vlad either, dunno who you confused me with though. The plot thickens....
I dunno. I'm pretty positive it was him.
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On April 22 2013 05:20 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 05:15 wei2coolman wrote:On April 22 2013 05:11 Alaric wrote:On April 22 2013 04:25 obesechicken13 wrote:
Now that you mention it, I think there was this time I watched you stream Alaric, and you were Vlad and you always got hit by Ziggs bombs for free. Even in unfavorable matchups you can't let yourself be a punching bag imoimo. I don't stream and I don't play Vlad either, dunno who you confused me with though. The plot thickens.... I dunno. I'm pretty positive it was him.
Was it confirmed on Saint's stream?
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rhux is much more talented than elementz. he played in one major LAN event and elementz took a break, i remember not being super impressed (a few getting caught out etc) but rhux still gave me a probably overall more solid feel than elementz. and this is after only a week or two of practicing support on solo queue.
elementz was one of the first pros to be picked up in league, its not surprising that there are outstanding talents that are superior to the "old pros". if anything its surprising HOW MANY of them are still around considering there are plenty of talents out there that can give them a run for their money.
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Depends on roles, tbh NA support scene is pretty weak. Elementz sucks as a pro-player, but in terms of support he was mediocre-tier in reference to NA supports.
I have a feeling rhux might end up similar to Aphromoo, where he's really mechanically good, and can trade well, and make "plays", but his lack of support knowledge is going to take forever to learn, such as ward placement/when and how to roam.
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I mean, seriously, what weakness does thresh have?
You try to abuse his range he can hit you with a chain and just all in him. Only thing yoiu can do is outplay him, but he has so many tools doing so requires on the thresh being bad.
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On April 22 2013 05:00 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 04:32 thenexusp wrote:On April 22 2013 03:11 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Thresh changes when he needs nerfs. Still always going to be banned until he's nerfed. Especially his passive. Unless you are getting completely zoned out of your lane, in which case you're losing anyways, he gets more free armor then any champion gets at equivilent levels. I had one thresh at 30 minutes with 80 free armor and ap. That's 3000g worth of stats from his passive. And almost all of it was front loaded in his levels, obviously once teamfights start you won't be picking up hardly any souls. It's not actually that much free stats, once you take into account his zero armor scaling per level and his mediocre AP scaling. Actually, yeah, yeah it is that much free stats. Consider he gets free AD too from his souls with his Q passive. It is actually pretty absurd because thats basically 1AD per soul because even if he doesn't get the AD% bonus from it hew always gets the magic damage from collecting a soul. That means basically his free stats is more like 6000g if he has +80 Armor, AP, and AD. I think thresh is ridiculous. He just has everything. Absolutely everything. Why play Blitz when Thresh has Identical CC, more damage, more utility. Why play Janna when Thresh has more damage. Why play lulu when Thresh has hard CC, and better initiation/disengaging skills. Its not even like Thresh has everything but other supports outshine him in certain aspects. Literally the dude has everything and he outshines everyone else with it. No champ in the game has such strong gank assist. No other champ in the game gets all his teammates a get out of jail free card. No other champ in the game gets that much free damage and tankiness. Dudes winrates are off the charts. Aside from his first week of play where he posted low numbers, his winrate been like +55% since forever.
I agree that Thresh is ridiculously broken but IIRC he doesn't get free AD from his passive, only free AP and free armour/MR.
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On April 22 2013 05:40 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 05:00 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2013 04:32 thenexusp wrote:On April 22 2013 03:11 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Thresh changes when he needs nerfs. Still always going to be banned until he's nerfed. Especially his passive. Unless you are getting completely zoned out of your lane, in which case you're losing anyways, he gets more free armor then any champion gets at equivilent levels. I had one thresh at 30 minutes with 80 free armor and ap. That's 3000g worth of stats from his passive. And almost all of it was front loaded in his levels, obviously once teamfights start you won't be picking up hardly any souls. It's not actually that much free stats, once you take into account his zero armor scaling per level and his mediocre AP scaling. Actually, yeah, yeah it is that much free stats. Consider he gets free AD too from his souls with his Q passive. It is actually pretty absurd because thats basically 1AD per soul because even if he doesn't get the AD% bonus from it hew always gets the magic damage from collecting a soul. That means basically his free stats is more like 6000g if he has +80 Armor, AP, and AD. I think thresh is ridiculous. He just has everything. Absolutely everything. Why play Blitz when Thresh has Identical CC, more damage, more utility. Why play Janna when Thresh has more damage. Why play lulu when Thresh has hard CC, and better initiation/disengaging skills. Its not even like Thresh has everything but other supports outshine him in certain aspects. Literally the dude has everything and he outshines everyone else with it. No champ in the game has such strong gank assist. No other champ in the game gets all his teammates a get out of jail free card. No other champ in the game gets that much free damage and tankiness. Dudes winrates are off the charts. Aside from his first week of play where he posted low numbers, his winrate been like +55% since forever. I agree that Thresh is ridiculously broken but IIRC he doesn't get free AD from his passive, only free AP and free armour/MR.
His Q passive is that for every soul he gets, his autos do 1 magic damage. Not only that, buit on tip of that every five seconds he gains a +AD % multiplier when he not attacking.
It pretty much AD.
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EPT
