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United States19573 Posts
On April 06 2013 04:17 Alaric wrote:There's no queue at all to go into EUW (at least when I did 25 minutes ago), thereisnourflevel isn't "public" enough for that.  Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 03:14 Shikyo wrote:
I don't see how Talon is a good assassin archetype, especially on the topic of what was discussed earlier? If you get within 700 range of Talon, you're just dead. Nothing you can do.
Note I didn't mean that Diana and Ahri are good assassins, the concept of requiring a difficult skillshot and the concept of mobility with skillshots are what are good. What ahri actually is or isn't isn't really relevant to my point. Animations. I feel like I'm repeating myself (not blaming you: it's annoying me because I don't want to annoy potential listeners by sounding like a parrot) since that was already my line of reasoning a few months ago (pre-season), but Talon has wind-down frames on E, a longer aa than most champs (not Wukong-level of awful, just a bit long), W and R deal damage in 2 parts, most of Q's damage comes from the AoE, it's an aa reset, and once there's stuff like Locket/Aegis in play or simply carries reaching level 13+ (where his base damage stops creasing) he becomes even more reliant on hitting during the damage amplification (esp. since W's range is too short to poke with then go in for the kill like Kha'Zix can). When Talon E's somebody (and he makes it pretty obvious with the sound and recognisable model), a cc to stop his combo (the way you do to Zed, but Zed has shorter animations) or delay it will reduce his damage and buy time for your teammate to run. What's nice about his E is that the silence prevents insta-flashes/escape skills (you wouldn't be able to combo a Kass ever post-6 otherwise, or an Ahri for example), however it's only 1s duration so if you E the AD carry but Sona/Lulu immediatly cc's you, even with mercs you won't be able to combo before your target flashes/dashes away, losing precious time on your E (Kha'Zix's kit is fully ranged, Zed has W, Akali has multiple dashes, Diana has E and another ult if she hit a Q before going in, etc.). Talon is super strong 1v1, but, well, he's an assassin, that's his job. In teamfights, you need a team capable of isolating targets for you (the way Olaf can force teams to split if the carries run while the bruisers dive his, for example, or even the way a seemingly failed Gragas/Janna ult can) or to position yourself so that you can flank them. The same works with Eve/LB (remember Misaya's wonderful flanks and sneak attacks in the back against a Kog when playing Eve, and how the teams played around their limited stock of pink wards, and pressure on objectives to contest vision safety— that was interesting gameplay to watch). Zed, on the other hand, can ult somebody, only get his E or Q off, get blown away, have his mark trigger, and he'll still have the damage to kill his target, and the means to go back in (or out). Kha'Zix can EWQauto in the span of jump (he won't finish the auto before he lands but the idea's there), that's far too fast to allow counterplay. You're low? Either you have an Alistar who can headbutt him before his Qs goes through, or you're dead. Kha'Zix having poke and a reset isn't too much of a problem. It's that he can snowball hard and 100-0 people. His ult lets him reposition, run away, reengage, etc. and his jump too once he evolves it. It's fine: he's a vulture who skirts around the fight, poke, and either destroys you if you get isolated through his Q, or jumps in to finish you off when you get low, and gets out quickly. The problem with him is that, on top of that, he's able to 100-0 champs if you let him snowball. I'd say reduce his damage (base or scaling or whatever, but I'm mainly thinking about W and the passive here) that way he can't 100-0 people (or needs to be really, really fed) and has to focus on his ganking/preying on the wounded playstyle rather than go for solo kills. I dunno how to fix Zed though.
If we just made them both AP champs none of it would be a problem 
Or we could Rengarize them.
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On April 06 2013 04:23 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 04:17 Alaric wrote:There's no queue at all to go into EUW (at least when I did 25 minutes ago), thereisnourflevel isn't "public" enough for that. On April 06 2013 03:14 Shikyo wrote:
I don't see how Talon is a good assassin archetype, especially on the topic of what was discussed earlier? If you get within 700 range of Talon, you're just dead. Nothing you can do.
Note I didn't mean that Diana and Ahri are good assassins, the concept of requiring a difficult skillshot and the concept of mobility with skillshots are what are good. What ahri actually is or isn't isn't really relevant to my point. Animations. I feel like I'm repeating myself (not blaming you: it's annoying me because I don't want to annoy potential listeners by sounding like a parrot) since that was already my line of reasoning a few months ago (pre-season), but Talon has wind-down frames on E, a longer aa than most champs (not Wukong-level of awful, just a bit long), W and R deal damage in 2 parts, most of Q's damage comes from the AoE, it's an aa reset, and once there's stuff like Locket/Aegis in play or simply carries reaching level 13+ (where his base damage stops creasing) he becomes even more reliant on hitting during the damage amplification (esp. since W's range is too short to poke with then go in for the kill like Kha'Zix can). When Talon E's somebody (and he makes it pretty obvious with the sound and recognisable model), a cc to stop his combo (the way you do to Zed, but Zed has shorter animations) or delay it will reduce his damage and buy time for your teammate to run. What's nice about his E is that the silence prevents insta-flashes/escape skills (you wouldn't be able to combo a Kass ever post-6 otherwise, or an Ahri for example), however it's only 1s duration so if you E the AD carry but Sona/Lulu immediatly cc's you, even with mercs you won't be able to combo before your target flashes/dashes away, losing precious time on your E (Kha'Zix's kit is fully ranged, Zed has W, Akali has multiple dashes, Diana has E and another ult if she hit a Q before going in, etc.). Talon is super strong 1v1, but, well, he's an assassin, that's his job. In teamfights, you need a team capable of isolating targets for you (the way Olaf can force teams to split if the carries run while the bruisers dive his, for example, or even the way a seemingly failed Gragas/Janna ult can) or to position yourself so that you can flank them. The same works with Eve/LB (remember Misaya's wonderful flanks and sneak attacks in the back against a Kog when playing Eve, and how the teams played around their limited stock of pink wards, and pressure on objectives to contest vision safety— that was interesting gameplay to watch). Zed, on the other hand, can ult somebody, only get his E or Q off, get blown away, have his mark trigger, and he'll still have the damage to kill his target, and the means to go back in (or out). Kha'Zix can EWQauto in the span of jump (he won't finish the auto before he lands but the idea's there), that's far too fast to allow counterplay. You're low? Either you have an Alistar who can headbutt him before his Qs goes through, or you're dead. Kha'Zix having poke and a reset isn't too much of a problem. It's that he can snowball hard and 100-0 people. His ult lets him reposition, run away, reengage, etc. and his jump too once he evolves it. It's fine: he's a vulture who skirts around the fight, poke, and either destroys you if you get isolated through his Q, or jumps in to finish you off when you get low, and gets out quickly. The problem with him is that, on top of that, he's able to 100-0 champs if you let him snowball. I'd say reduce his damage (base or scaling or whatever, but I'm mainly thinking about W and the passive here) that way he can't 100-0 people (or needs to be really, really fed) and has to focus on his ganking/preying on the wounded playstyle rather than go for solo kills. I dunno how to fix Zed though. If we just made them both AP champs none of it would be a problem Or we could Rengarize them.
Stop, I really like Rengar, I just want him to get unnerfed 
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On April 06 2013 03:06 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 01:53 Mensol wrote:
i've just watched TPA's Zac/Lulu combo against KLH.
gotta love double knock air :3 i kind of like spirit of the elder lizard on an ad too. the extra damage to minions on your biggest damage dealer is pretty sexy for objectives, andit probably helps with ez's slow waveclear. adding that to frozen fist... man that's sexy. also, this is why you dont let stanley 1v1. dat perfect lulu game doe.
Saw WildTurte trolling aroundi n soloq once on Draven, built SotEL, CDRboots, ghostblade, and something else.
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EUW still not working for me. Its online but busy. trolling ap nasus on a new NA account: OnlyHere4TheBeer
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On April 06 2013 04:44 Tommie wrote:
EUW still not working for me. Its online but busy. trolling ap nasus on a new NA account: OnlyHere4TheBeer
type: thereisnourflevel
when it says server n/a or busy
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EUW dead broken and fucking huge ass queues on PBE. Sad panda =(
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i want to level a smurf on NA, anyone interested in keeping me some company? user is halfshadow, i think i'm at like 6 or something.
also, would it be OK to start a TL "alternate summoners" list where we listed people's smurfs?
EDIT: based on the teaser stuff, i initially thought zac was going to be "evil" and kind of cho gath -eque (he wanted to eat the world). turns out he's like the cutest thing ever.
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United States19573 Posts
On April 06 2013 04:27 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 04:23 cLutZ wrote:On April 06 2013 04:17 Alaric wrote:There's no queue at all to go into EUW (at least when I did 25 minutes ago), thereisnourflevel isn't "public" enough for that. On April 06 2013 03:14 Shikyo wrote:
I don't see how Talon is a good assassin archetype, especially on the topic of what was discussed earlier? If you get within 700 range of Talon, you're just dead. Nothing you can do.
Note I didn't mean that Diana and Ahri are good assassins, the concept of requiring a difficult skillshot and the concept of mobility with skillshots are what are good. What ahri actually is or isn't isn't really relevant to my point. Animations. I feel like I'm repeating myself (not blaming you: it's annoying me because I don't want to annoy potential listeners by sounding like a parrot) since that was already my line of reasoning a few months ago (pre-season), but Talon has wind-down frames on E, a longer aa than most champs (not Wukong-level of awful, just a bit long), W and R deal damage in 2 parts, most of Q's damage comes from the AoE, it's an aa reset, and once there's stuff like Locket/Aegis in play or simply carries reaching level 13+ (where his base damage stops creasing) he becomes even more reliant on hitting during the damage amplification (esp. since W's range is too short to poke with then go in for the kill like Kha'Zix can). When Talon E's somebody (and he makes it pretty obvious with the sound and recognisable model), a cc to stop his combo (the way you do to Zed, but Zed has shorter animations) or delay it will reduce his damage and buy time for your teammate to run. What's nice about his E is that the silence prevents insta-flashes/escape skills (you wouldn't be able to combo a Kass ever post-6 otherwise, or an Ahri for example), however it's only 1s duration so if you E the AD carry but Sona/Lulu immediatly cc's you, even with mercs you won't be able to combo before your target flashes/dashes away, losing precious time on your E (Kha'Zix's kit is fully ranged, Zed has W, Akali has multiple dashes, Diana has E and another ult if she hit a Q before going in, etc.). Talon is super strong 1v1, but, well, he's an assassin, that's his job. In teamfights, you need a team capable of isolating targets for you (the way Olaf can force teams to split if the carries run while the bruisers dive his, for example, or even the way a seemingly failed Gragas/Janna ult can) or to position yourself so that you can flank them. The same works with Eve/LB (remember Misaya's wonderful flanks and sneak attacks in the back against a Kog when playing Eve, and how the teams played around their limited stock of pink wards, and pressure on objectives to contest vision safety— that was interesting gameplay to watch). Zed, on the other hand, can ult somebody, only get his E or Q off, get blown away, have his mark trigger, and he'll still have the damage to kill his target, and the means to go back in (or out). Kha'Zix can EWQauto in the span of jump (he won't finish the auto before he lands but the idea's there), that's far too fast to allow counterplay. You're low? Either you have an Alistar who can headbutt him before his Qs goes through, or you're dead. Kha'Zix having poke and a reset isn't too much of a problem. It's that he can snowball hard and 100-0 people. His ult lets him reposition, run away, reengage, etc. and his jump too once he evolves it. It's fine: he's a vulture who skirts around the fight, poke, and either destroys you if you get isolated through his Q, or jumps in to finish you off when you get low, and gets out quickly. The problem with him is that, on top of that, he's able to 100-0 champs if you let him snowball. I'd say reduce his damage (base or scaling or whatever, but I'm mainly thinking about W and the passive here) that way he can't 100-0 people (or needs to be really, really fed) and has to focus on his ganking/preying on the wounded playstyle rather than go for solo kills. I dunno how to fix Zed though. If we just made them both AP champs none of it would be a problem Or we could Rengarize them. Stop, I really like Rengar, I just want him to get unnerfed
Which part of Rengar that makes him difficult to balance do you like most? Stealth ganks? Backdooring? Insane brush control? Manaless? Spammable heal?
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On April 06 2013 04:52 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 04:27 Requizen wrote:On April 06 2013 04:23 cLutZ wrote:On April 06 2013 04:17 Alaric wrote:There's no queue at all to go into EUW (at least when I did 25 minutes ago), thereisnourflevel isn't "public" enough for that. On April 06 2013 03:14 Shikyo wrote:
I don't see how Talon is a good assassin archetype, especially on the topic of what was discussed earlier? If you get within 700 range of Talon, you're just dead. Nothing you can do.
Note I didn't mean that Diana and Ahri are good assassins, the concept of requiring a difficult skillshot and the concept of mobility with skillshots are what are good. What ahri actually is or isn't isn't really relevant to my point. Animations. I feel like I'm repeating myself (not blaming you: it's annoying me because I don't want to annoy potential listeners by sounding like a parrot) since that was already my line of reasoning a few months ago (pre-season), but Talon has wind-down frames on E, a longer aa than most champs (not Wukong-level of awful, just a bit long), W and R deal damage in 2 parts, most of Q's damage comes from the AoE, it's an aa reset, and once there's stuff like Locket/Aegis in play or simply carries reaching level 13+ (where his base damage stops creasing) he becomes even more reliant on hitting during the damage amplification (esp. since W's range is too short to poke with then go in for the kill like Kha'Zix can). When Talon E's somebody (and he makes it pretty obvious with the sound and recognisable model), a cc to stop his combo (the way you do to Zed, but Zed has shorter animations) or delay it will reduce his damage and buy time for your teammate to run. What's nice about his E is that the silence prevents insta-flashes/escape skills (you wouldn't be able to combo a Kass ever post-6 otherwise, or an Ahri for example), however it's only 1s duration so if you E the AD carry but Sona/Lulu immediatly cc's you, even with mercs you won't be able to combo before your target flashes/dashes away, losing precious time on your E (Kha'Zix's kit is fully ranged, Zed has W, Akali has multiple dashes, Diana has E and another ult if she hit a Q before going in, etc.). Talon is super strong 1v1, but, well, he's an assassin, that's his job. In teamfights, you need a team capable of isolating targets for you (the way Olaf can force teams to split if the carries run while the bruisers dive his, for example, or even the way a seemingly failed Gragas/Janna ult can) or to position yourself so that you can flank them. The same works with Eve/LB (remember Misaya's wonderful flanks and sneak attacks in the back against a Kog when playing Eve, and how the teams played around their limited stock of pink wards, and pressure on objectives to contest vision safety— that was interesting gameplay to watch). Zed, on the other hand, can ult somebody, only get his E or Q off, get blown away, have his mark trigger, and he'll still have the damage to kill his target, and the means to go back in (or out). Kha'Zix can EWQauto in the span of jump (he won't finish the auto before he lands but the idea's there), that's far too fast to allow counterplay. You're low? Either you have an Alistar who can headbutt him before his Qs goes through, or you're dead. Kha'Zix having poke and a reset isn't too much of a problem. It's that he can snowball hard and 100-0 people. His ult lets him reposition, run away, reengage, etc. and his jump too once he evolves it. It's fine: he's a vulture who skirts around the fight, poke, and either destroys you if you get isolated through his Q, or jumps in to finish you off when you get low, and gets out quickly. The problem with him is that, on top of that, he's able to 100-0 champs if you let him snowball. I'd say reduce his damage (base or scaling or whatever, but I'm mainly thinking about W and the passive here) that way he can't 100-0 people (or needs to be really, really fed) and has to focus on his ganking/preying on the wounded playstyle rather than go for solo kills. I dunno how to fix Zed though. If we just made them both AP champs none of it would be a problem Or we could Rengarize them. Stop, I really like Rengar, I just want him to get unnerfed Which part of Rengar that makes him difficult to balance do you like most? Stealth ganks? Backdooring? Insane brush control? Manaless? Spammable heal?
No cd on the bush jump has to be the stupidest thing ever. At least on other champions they use a cooldown.
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On April 06 2013 04:46 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 04:44 Tommie wrote:
EUW still not working for me. Its online but busy. trolling ap nasus on a new NA account: OnlyHere4TheBeer type: thereisnourflevel when it says server n/a or busy
The problem was getting past the login screen, not the launcer. It's fixed now though.
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His heal isn't as spammable as people like to make it out to be, first off. I like that you're trading damage and sticking power to heal up. The only thing that makes him really difficult to balance is the stealth. Stealth has, traditionally, been utilized for squishy champions to assassinate/escape/not get hit while they do their job. Look at Twitch, Eve, Shaco, etc. Kha is a bad example because he's got the "I'm kind of a bruiser who can also pump out assassin damage" issue.
Rengar is a traditional bruiser who wants to stick to a target and lay into them with his autos and use his free defenses and AS to win fights. Giving him stealth is just awkward. I think if they modified it to give him a MS buff, allow him to Leap a couple times, and generate Ferocity, it'd be a wonderful bruiser steroid that doesn't have the potential to ruin games as badly as Stealth does.
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United States19573 Posts
On April 06 2013 05:03 Requizen wrote:
His heal isn't as spammable as people like to make it out to be, first off. I like that you're trading damage and sticking power to heal up. The only thing that makes him really difficult to balance is the stealth. Stealth has, traditionally, been utilized for squishy champions to assassinate/escape/not get hit while they do their job. Look at Twitch, Eve, Shaco, etc. Kha is a bad example because he's got the "I'm kind of a bruiser who can also pump out assassin damage" issue.
Rengar is a traditional bruiser who wants to stick to a target and lay into them with his autos and use his free defenses and AS to win fights. Giving him stealth is just awkward. I think if they modified it to give him a MS buff, allow him to Leap a couple times, and generate Ferocity, it'd be a wonderful bruiser steroid that doesn't have the potential to ruin games as badly as Stealth does.
Well, when he was popular we did not have League of HP potions, but, he he could basically always force you to back before him, and with W max he could make you lose a wave + as a result.
Edit:
Also, you were only trading damage in the sense of Rengar's potential (which was more than most other champs of that tankiness). Now that you actually have to use EMP Q to do damage he is not very good.
Edit 2:
It is, and has been, my position that Rengar needs to lose 2 of: Heal, Manaless, Stealth, No-CD gapcloser, Ranged low/Snare to be balanced on a long-term basis.
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On April 06 2013 04:48 ticklishmusic wrote:
i want to level a smurf on NA, anyone interested in keeping me some company? user is halfshadow, i think i'm at like 6 or something.
also, would it be OK to start a TL "alternate summoners" list where we listed people's smurfs?
EDIT: based on the teaser stuff, i initially thought zac was going to be "evil" and kind of cho gath -eque (he wanted to eat the world). turns out he's like the cutest thing ever.
Add worstmiduniverse
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Hey, I'm looking for a duo partner, preferably someone in gold or plat or something for me to get up to gold 5. I'm currently silver 2 (I WAS silver 1 with ~70 points and went on a huge ass losing streak T_T) My best role is mid. Summoner name is TTaiga
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You should say what region maybe?
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Why do people insist on sending Jax vs Fiora? Like really, if they don't play Jax often, Fiora eats him and snowballs to all hell (provided it's a decent Fiora player, but then again there's only like 3 Fiora players in the whole world). It's not even her worst matchup by far.
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On April 06 2013 05:11 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 05:03 Requizen wrote:
His heal isn't as spammable as people like to make it out to be, first off. I like that you're trading damage and sticking power to heal up. The only thing that makes him really difficult to balance is the stealth. Stealth has, traditionally, been utilized for squishy champions to assassinate/escape/not get hit while they do their job. Look at Twitch, Eve, Shaco, etc. Kha is a bad example because he's got the "I'm kind of a bruiser who can also pump out assassin damage" issue.
Rengar is a traditional bruiser who wants to stick to a target and lay into them with his autos and use his free defenses and AS to win fights. Giving him stealth is just awkward. I think if they modified it to give him a MS buff, allow him to Leap a couple times, and generate Ferocity, it'd be a wonderful bruiser steroid that doesn't have the potential to ruin games as badly as Stealth does. Well, when he was popular we did not have League of HP potions, but, he he could basically always force you to back before him, and with W max he could make you lose a wave + as a result. Edit: Also, you were only trading damage in the sense of Rengar's potential (which was more than most other champs of that tankiness). Now that you actually have to use EMP Q to do damage he is not very good. Edit 2: It is, and has been, my position that Rengar needs to lose 2 of: Heal, Manaless, Stealth, No-CD gapcloser, Ranged low/Snare to be balanced on a long-term basis.
Eh, I think that's way overreacting. The heal isn't huge given the time needed to get to 5 Ferocity and how much you sacrifice for it. The slow isn't out of line with slows of other bruisers, other than maybe the CD at max rank. Even then, it's just a slow and not an AS slow like Wither, Ice Blast, or whatever Malphite's is called.
As to the gap closer, it probably needs an ICD, but it's easily countered by, you know, avoiding brushes. You don't have to fight him in the middle of the jungle or whatever, if you position yourself correctly it's a completely useless passive unless he blows his ult.
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Only just tuning into the TPA games - how many have there been in the series so far? They have Stanley as top Zac w/Voli jungle this game.
Edit: Bebe as SotEL rush Ezreal, hue.
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How many Fiora players get Q at level 1 instead of W if their opponent didn't start mass consumables to destroy half their health with a Q-aa-Q-aa while having great sustain?
Also making Kha'Zix AP would only force Riot to nerf his heal and passive because his Q would still give him good dps (I mean technically his Q is the reason, along with vision jukes for passive, that give him good dps rather than Panth-level dps once he's used W/the reset from his E/all charges from his ult).
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On April 06 2013 05:31 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Why do people insist on sending Jax vs Fiora? Like really, if they don't play Jax often, Fiora eats him and snowballs to all hell (provided it's a decent Fiora player, but then again there's only like 3 Fiora players in the whole world). It's not even her worst matchup by far.
Last time I brought that up I was shouted down. lol
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EPT
