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On March 20 2013 22:55 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 22:45 Norada wrote:
it's funny because most coaches for the korean/chinese teams arent diamond or challenger, I dont know why NA teams have this ego to them that they wont listen to anyone who isnt at their skill level. Some people have great game knowledge and know the best way to do things but their execution just isnt the best; no reason to totally ignore these people and not put their assets to use in your team.
It's the same for bw, or any coach for any sport really. Until I see one of those people, I'm gonna assume they don't exist. Most people know less than they think, and are more wrong than they think.
That's pretty bullshit. If you have an analytic mind, you can 'get good' at analysis through practice and effort just like you can get good at playing the game through practice and effort. The difference is they can focus ENTIRELY on analysis if they're serious about it.
Example: Nearly every coach, analyst, and other people associated with professional sports.
This isn't "most people" we're talking about, we're talking about people who take analysis seriously and focus on getting good at analysis.
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True, but theres also theorycrafting. These champion just burst and scale the least, or bring the least impact on a team. Theres more reason they dont get picked other then 'they just dont get picked'
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On March 20 2013 23:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 22:58 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:52 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:43 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:39 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Corki/Sivir are as good as all the other AD carries. People have proven time and time again that pick rate is merely a reflection of public prejudice rather than champion strength. 'People have proven?' What about competitive pick rate, or overall win rate, or competitive win rate? Saying something as extremely vague and anecdotal as 'people have proven' doesn't really give any merit to your argument. AP trynd would be the most recent example, something that was played by very few people before his recent nerf, suddenly gained traction and afaik in NA only, but turned out to be so OP that it warranted a hotfix. So I guess "people" haven't proven, as much as the history of LoL changes. AP Trynd is a weird way to play a different champ though, similar to Ssong popularizing Kayle mid. That's not comparable to a champion in his 'intended' role. Ezreal before he became fotm then. The point is there are things everyone misses and everyone is wrong about, and it happens way more often than people seem to remember.
Ezreal became 'fotm' before I started playing which is more than half a year ago. If it happens so often I'm sure you can think of a more recent example.
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On March 20 2013 22:55 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 22:45 Norada wrote:
it's funny because most coaches for the korean/chinese teams arent diamond or challenger, I dont know why NA teams have this ego to them that they wont listen to anyone who isnt at their skill level. Some people have great game knowledge and know the best way to do things but their execution just isnt the best; no reason to totally ignore these people and not put their assets to use in your team.
It's the same for bw, or any coach for any sport really. Until I see one of those people, I'm gonna assume they don't exist. Most people know less than they think, and are more wrong than they think.
any broodwars coach ever? whoever coached flash or bisu obviously wasnt as good as them. liquid actually seems like a good coach/manager and helps curse out a lot. nazgul helps out tl players in their tournament preparations too and I dont think he's at the same "league" as them or ranked similar to them.
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On March 20 2013 23:04 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 22:55 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:45 Norada wrote:
it's funny because most coaches for the korean/chinese teams arent diamond or challenger, I dont know why NA teams have this ego to them that they wont listen to anyone who isnt at their skill level. Some people have great game knowledge and know the best way to do things but their execution just isnt the best; no reason to totally ignore these people and not put their assets to use in your team.
It's the same for bw, or any coach for any sport really. Until I see one of those people, I'm gonna assume they don't exist. Most people know less than they think, and are more wrong than they think. That's pretty bullshit. If you have an analytic mind, you can 'get good' at analysis through practice and effort just like you can get good at playing the game through practice and effort. The difference is they can focus ENTIRELY on analysis if they're serious about it. Example: Nearly every coach, analyst, and other people associated with professional sports. This isn't "most people" we're talking about, we're talking about people who take analysis seriously and focus on getting good at analysis.
Well we have one of the best coaches in football at the moment who never was a pro-level player so I don't see why an eSport coach has to play the game at pro-level to be able to coach.
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On March 20 2013 23:05 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 23:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:58 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:52 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:43 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:39 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Corki/Sivir are as good as all the other AD carries. People have proven time and time again that pick rate is merely a reflection of public prejudice rather than champion strength. 'People have proven?' What about competitive pick rate, or overall win rate, or competitive win rate? Saying something as extremely vague and anecdotal as 'people have proven' doesn't really give any merit to your argument. AP trynd would be the most recent example, something that was played by very few people before his recent nerf, suddenly gained traction and afaik in NA only, but turned out to be so OP that it warranted a hotfix. So I guess "people" haven't proven, as much as the history of LoL changes. AP Trynd is a weird way to play a different champ though, similar to Ssong popularizing Kayle mid. That's not comparable to a champion in his 'intended' role. Ezreal before he became fotm then. The point is there are things everyone misses and everyone is wrong about, and it happens way more often than people seem to remember. Ezreal became 'fotm' before I started playing which is more than half a year ago. If it happens so often I'm sure you can think of a more recent example.
Volibear, Xin to some extent, hec, shyv, naut, top lane teemo, rumble... All of these went from rare picks to fotm without significant changes (or no changes at all in some cases) at some point. Granted some just happened to benefit from meta changes or large scale general mechanics changes (S3, S2 jungle, etc) but yes; The majority is often 'wrong'.
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On March 20 2013 23:05 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 23:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:58 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:52 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:43 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:39 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Corki/Sivir are as good as all the other AD carries. People have proven time and time again that pick rate is merely a reflection of public prejudice rather than champion strength. 'People have proven?' What about competitive pick rate, or overall win rate, or competitive win rate? Saying something as extremely vague and anecdotal as 'people have proven' doesn't really give any merit to your argument. AP trynd would be the most recent example, something that was played by very few people before his recent nerf, suddenly gained traction and afaik in NA only, but turned out to be so OP that it warranted a hotfix. So I guess "people" haven't proven, as much as the history of LoL changes. AP Trynd is a weird way to play a different champ though, similar to Ssong popularizing Kayle mid. That's not comparable to a champion in his 'intended' role. Ezreal before he became fotm then. The point is there are things everyone misses and everyone is wrong about, and it happens way more often than people seem to remember. Ezreal became 'fotm' before I started playing which is more than half a year ago. If it happens so often I'm sure you can think of a more recent example.
oh ok lets just disregard that example then because you didnt start playing till mid season 2.
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I'm not saying you can't be a coach without being a player, I'm saying you can't actually help the players with strategy if you don't play the game. There's plenty of stuff that a coach can help with outside of strategy, such as preparation, practice, mindset, etc.
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who said anything about not playing the game? I think a coach that is plat/low diamond could still help out a team quite a bit; and by teams i mean the american lcs teams. I am sure asian teams actually have higher standards.
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On March 20 2013 23:04 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 22:55 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:45 Norada wrote:
it's funny because most coaches for the korean/chinese teams arent diamond or challenger, I dont know why NA teams have this ego to them that they wont listen to anyone who isnt at their skill level. Some people have great game knowledge and know the best way to do things but their execution just isnt the best; no reason to totally ignore these people and not put their assets to use in your team.
It's the same for bw, or any coach for any sport really. Until I see one of those people, I'm gonna assume they don't exist. Most people know less than they think, and are more wrong than they think. That's pretty bullshit. If you have an analytic mind, you can 'get good' at analysis through practice and effort just like you can get good at playing the game through practice and effort. The difference is they can focus ENTIRELY on analysis if they're serious about it. Example: Nearly every coach, analyst, and other people associated with professional sports. This isn't "most people" we're talking about, we're talking about people who take analysis seriously and focus on getting good at analysis.
This is perfectly valid on football (soccer for US), Mourinho wasn't exactly a star player but he is regarded as one of the best coaches ever. The same can be said for Maradona, who was arguably THE biggest star of the sport and isn't exactly a good coach.
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On March 20 2013 23:14 Wrag wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 23:05 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 23:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:58 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:52 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:43 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:39 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Corki/Sivir are as good as all the other AD carries. People have proven time and time again that pick rate is merely a reflection of public prejudice rather than champion strength. 'People have proven?' What about competitive pick rate, or overall win rate, or competitive win rate? Saying something as extremely vague and anecdotal as 'people have proven' doesn't really give any merit to your argument. AP trynd would be the most recent example, something that was played by very few people before his recent nerf, suddenly gained traction and afaik in NA only, but turned out to be so OP that it warranted a hotfix. So I guess "people" haven't proven, as much as the history of LoL changes. AP Trynd is a weird way to play a different champ though, similar to Ssong popularizing Kayle mid. That's not comparable to a champion in his 'intended' role. Ezreal before he became fotm then. The point is there are things everyone misses and everyone is wrong about, and it happens way more often than people seem to remember. Ezreal became 'fotm' before I started playing which is more than half a year ago. If it happens so often I'm sure you can think of a more recent example. Volibear, Xin to some extent, hec, shyv, naut, top lane teemo, rumble... All of these went from rare picks to fotm without significant changes (or no changes at all in some cases) at some point. Granted some just happened to benefit from meta changes or large scale general mechanics changes (S3, S2 jungle, etc) but yes; The majority is often 'wrong'.
To comment on the first 3 (and rumble partially though he was already decently popular when I started) - all of them benefitted a LOT from item changes and jungle changes. Can't comment on the rest since that was before my time again.
Volibear and xin both benefitted from jungle changes that made junglers without AoE better, locket is an amazing item on both as well (nevermind how good health stacking is for Volibear).
Hecarim got a lot better because (especially in solo Q) early ganking became a lot less important and wards became a lot more commonplace. Add to that Frozen Fist + Spirit of the Elder Lizard both being AMAZING items for him.
Rumble got a big boost thanks to Liandry's, it's synergy with Rylai's and in competitive play thanks to his 1v2 ability.
I agree that sometimes a new champ pops up that was very underrated and that people sometimes underestimate champions (Kha'zix is a major example but I think Sejuani in solo Q as well). But it doesn't happen nearly as often as people think it does.
This frustrates me more than ever because I really, really like Quinn but I also think she's really, really bad, while a lot of people are saying she's fine or even sleeper OP.
On March 20 2013 23:15 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 23:05 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 23:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:58 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:52 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:43 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:39 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Corki/Sivir are as good as all the other AD carries. People have proven time and time again that pick rate is merely a reflection of public prejudice rather than champion strength. 'People have proven?' What about competitive pick rate, or overall win rate, or competitive win rate? Saying something as extremely vague and anecdotal as 'people have proven' doesn't really give any merit to your argument. AP trynd would be the most recent example, something that was played by very few people before his recent nerf, suddenly gained traction and afaik in NA only, but turned out to be so OP that it warranted a hotfix. So I guess "people" haven't proven, as much as the history of LoL changes. AP Trynd is a weird way to play a different champ though, similar to Ssong popularizing Kayle mid. That's not comparable to a champion in his 'intended' role. Ezreal before he became fotm then. The point is there are things everyone misses and everyone is wrong about, and it happens way more often than people seem to remember. Ezreal became 'fotm' before I started playing which is more than half a year ago. If it happens so often I'm sure you can think of a more recent example. oh ok lets just disregard that example then because you didnt start playing till mid season 2.
If your only example is 9 months ago then it really isn't very often now is it.
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I think being at least somewhat good at the game is important to give practical advice, and yet I don't think you have to be a challenger-level player to give strategical input for top-level games. Some people just don't have the reflexes/mechanics to properly apply their idea, and yet those ideas could be brilliant if done properly.
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On March 20 2013 22:31 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 21:15 misirlou wrote:On March 20 2013 21:00 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 20:26 misirlou wrote:On March 20 2013 19:31 Serelitz wrote:5. Not sure if this is due to lag or not, but her Q seems to behave differently from a lot of other skillshots (e.g. Fizz R, Sejuani R). It seems that once it reaches max reach it doesn't explode. This is how most skillshots behave though. Best example off the top of my head is Quinn's Q. off the top of my head, Jayce Ranged Q doesnt Ziggs' bomb doesn't though, and despite the guy saying it Sejuani's R doesn't explode either if it doesn't hit anyone (it just has a ridiculously large hitbox) So, you are agreeing with me? I believe ziggs and jayce Q work the same way (explode after max range) No, I'm saying ziggs' Q doesn't explode at max range and neither does Sejuani's ult, nor does Quinn's Q, nor does Kha's unevolved W. Fizz/Jayce are the exception, not the rule.
Ziggs' Q does explode after the 2 bounces
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On March 20 2013 23:28 misirlou wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 22:31 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 21:15 misirlou wrote:On March 20 2013 21:00 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 20:26 misirlou wrote:On March 20 2013 19:31 Serelitz wrote:5. Not sure if this is due to lag or not, but her Q seems to behave differently from a lot of other skillshots (e.g. Fizz R, Sejuani R). It seems that once it reaches max reach it doesn't explode. This is how most skillshots behave though. Best example off the top of my head is Quinn's Q. off the top of my head, Jayce Ranged Q doesnt Ziggs' bomb doesn't though, and despite the guy saying it Sejuani's R doesn't explode either if it doesn't hit anyone (it just has a ridiculously large hitbox) So, you are agreeing with me? I believe ziggs and jayce Q work the same way (explode after max range) No, I'm saying ziggs' Q doesn't explode at max range and neither does Sejuani's ult, nor does Quinn's Q, nor does Kha's unevolved W. Fizz/Jayce are the exception, not the rule. Ziggs' Q does explode after the 2 bounces
Just checked and you're right. Guess it's more like 50/50 then, depending if it fits the skillshot or not. My bad.
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On March 20 2013 23:22 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 23:14 Wrag wrote:On March 20 2013 23:05 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 23:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:58 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:52 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:43 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:39 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Corki/Sivir are as good as all the other AD carries. People have proven time and time again that pick rate is merely a reflection of public prejudice rather than champion strength. 'People have proven?' What about competitive pick rate, or overall win rate, or competitive win rate? Saying something as extremely vague and anecdotal as 'people have proven' doesn't really give any merit to your argument. AP trynd would be the most recent example, something that was played by very few people before his recent nerf, suddenly gained traction and afaik in NA only, but turned out to be so OP that it warranted a hotfix. So I guess "people" haven't proven, as much as the history of LoL changes. AP Trynd is a weird way to play a different champ though, similar to Ssong popularizing Kayle mid. That's not comparable to a champion in his 'intended' role. Ezreal before he became fotm then. The point is there are things everyone misses and everyone is wrong about, and it happens way more often than people seem to remember. Ezreal became 'fotm' before I started playing which is more than half a year ago. If it happens so often I'm sure you can think of a more recent example. Volibear, Xin to some extent, hec, shyv, naut, top lane teemo, rumble... All of these went from rare picks to fotm without significant changes (or no changes at all in some cases) at some point. Granted some just happened to benefit from meta changes or large scale general mechanics changes (S3, S2 jungle, etc) but yes; The majority is often 'wrong'. To comment on the first 3 (and rumble partially though he was already decently popular when I started) - all of them benefitted a LOT from item changes and jungle changes. Can't comment on the rest since that was before my time again. Volibear and xin both benefitted from jungle changes that made junglers without AoE better, locket is an amazing item on both as well (nevermind how good health stacking is for Volibear). Hecarim got a lot better because (especially in solo Q) early ganking became a lot less important and wards became a lot more commonplace. Add to that Frozen Fist + Spirit of the Elder Lizard both being AMAZING items for him. Rumble got a big boost thanks to Liandry's, it's synergy with Rylai's and in competitive play thanks to his 1v2 ability. I agree that sometimes a new champ pops up that was very underrated and that people sometimes underestimate champions (Kha'zix is a major example but I think Sejuani in solo Q as well). But it doesn't happen nearly as often as people think it does. This frustrates me more than ever because I really, really like Quinn but I also think she's really, really bad, while a lot of people are saying she's fine or even sleeper OP. Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 23:15 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 23:05 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 23:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:58 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:52 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:43 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:39 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Corki/Sivir are as good as all the other AD carries. People have proven time and time again that pick rate is merely a reflection of public prejudice rather than champion strength. 'People have proven?' What about competitive pick rate, or overall win rate, or competitive win rate? Saying something as extremely vague and anecdotal as 'people have proven' doesn't really give any merit to your argument. AP trynd would be the most recent example, something that was played by very few people before his recent nerf, suddenly gained traction and afaik in NA only, but turned out to be so OP that it warranted a hotfix. So I guess "people" haven't proven, as much as the history of LoL changes. AP Trynd is a weird way to play a different champ though, similar to Ssong popularizing Kayle mid. That's not comparable to a champion in his 'intended' role. Ezreal before he became fotm then. The point is there are things everyone misses and everyone is wrong about, and it happens way more often than people seem to remember. Ezreal became 'fotm' before I started playing which is more than half a year ago. If it happens so often I'm sure you can think of a more recent example. oh ok lets just disregard that example then because you didnt start playing till mid season 2. If your only example is 9 months ago then it really isn't very often now is it.
I make an argument based on the history of this game, you tell me I'm wrong then admit you don't know anything that happened before 6 months ago.
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On March 20 2013 23:33 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 23:22 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 23:14 Wrag wrote:On March 20 2013 23:05 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 23:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:58 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:52 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:43 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:39 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Corki/Sivir are as good as all the other AD carries. People have proven time and time again that pick rate is merely a reflection of public prejudice rather than champion strength. 'People have proven?' What about competitive pick rate, or overall win rate, or competitive win rate? Saying something as extremely vague and anecdotal as 'people have proven' doesn't really give any merit to your argument. AP trynd would be the most recent example, something that was played by very few people before his recent nerf, suddenly gained traction and afaik in NA only, but turned out to be so OP that it warranted a hotfix. So I guess "people" haven't proven, as much as the history of LoL changes. AP Trynd is a weird way to play a different champ though, similar to Ssong popularizing Kayle mid. That's not comparable to a champion in his 'intended' role. Ezreal before he became fotm then. The point is there are things everyone misses and everyone is wrong about, and it happens way more often than people seem to remember. Ezreal became 'fotm' before I started playing which is more than half a year ago. If it happens so often I'm sure you can think of a more recent example. Volibear, Xin to some extent, hec, shyv, naut, top lane teemo, rumble... All of these went from rare picks to fotm without significant changes (or no changes at all in some cases) at some point. Granted some just happened to benefit from meta changes or large scale general mechanics changes (S3, S2 jungle, etc) but yes; The majority is often 'wrong'. To comment on the first 3 (and rumble partially though he was already decently popular when I started) - all of them benefitted a LOT from item changes and jungle changes. Can't comment on the rest since that was before my time again. Volibear and xin both benefitted from jungle changes that made junglers without AoE better, locket is an amazing item on both as well (nevermind how good health stacking is for Volibear). Hecarim got a lot better because (especially in solo Q) early ganking became a lot less important and wards became a lot more commonplace. Add to that Frozen Fist + Spirit of the Elder Lizard both being AMAZING items for him. Rumble got a big boost thanks to Liandry's, it's synergy with Rylai's and in competitive play thanks to his 1v2 ability. I agree that sometimes a new champ pops up that was very underrated and that people sometimes underestimate champions (Kha'zix is a major example but I think Sejuani in solo Q as well). But it doesn't happen nearly as often as people think it does. This frustrates me more than ever because I really, really like Quinn but I also think she's really, really bad, while a lot of people are saying she's fine or even sleeper OP. On March 20 2013 23:15 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 23:05 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 23:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:58 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:52 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:43 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:39 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Corki/Sivir are as good as all the other AD carries. People have proven time and time again that pick rate is merely a reflection of public prejudice rather than champion strength. 'People have proven?' What about competitive pick rate, or overall win rate, or competitive win rate? Saying something as extremely vague and anecdotal as 'people have proven' doesn't really give any merit to your argument. AP trynd would be the most recent example, something that was played by very few people before his recent nerf, suddenly gained traction and afaik in NA only, but turned out to be so OP that it warranted a hotfix. So I guess "people" haven't proven, as much as the history of LoL changes. AP Trynd is a weird way to play a different champ though, similar to Ssong popularizing Kayle mid. That's not comparable to a champion in his 'intended' role. Ezreal before he became fotm then. The point is there are things everyone misses and everyone is wrong about, and it happens way more often than people seem to remember. Ezreal became 'fotm' before I started playing which is more than half a year ago. If it happens so often I'm sure you can think of a more recent example. oh ok lets just disregard that example then because you didnt start playing till mid season 2. If your only example is 9 months ago then it really isn't very often now is it. I make an argument based on the history of this game, you tell me I'm wrong then admit you don't know anything that happened before 6 months ago.
I started following league seriously just when Ezreal became popular so yeah, I don't know exact details about the longer history. That still doesn't refute what I said - if it happens so often, you shouldn't have to go 9 months back to find proof.
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So how bad is it that my last hitting plummets to 83/100 (at 10 minutes sharp) when I don't have the benefit of +4 damage to minions on AP mids?
Been practicing my csing and feeling sad panda.
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On March 20 2013 23:33 zulu_nation8 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 23:22 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 23:14 Wrag wrote:On March 20 2013 23:05 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 23:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:58 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:52 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:43 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:39 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Corki/Sivir are as good as all the other AD carries. People have proven time and time again that pick rate is merely a reflection of public prejudice rather than champion strength. 'People have proven?' What about competitive pick rate, or overall win rate, or competitive win rate? Saying something as extremely vague and anecdotal as 'people have proven' doesn't really give any merit to your argument. AP trynd would be the most recent example, something that was played by very few people before his recent nerf, suddenly gained traction and afaik in NA only, but turned out to be so OP that it warranted a hotfix. So I guess "people" haven't proven, as much as the history of LoL changes. AP Trynd is a weird way to play a different champ though, similar to Ssong popularizing Kayle mid. That's not comparable to a champion in his 'intended' role. Ezreal before he became fotm then. The point is there are things everyone misses and everyone is wrong about, and it happens way more often than people seem to remember. Ezreal became 'fotm' before I started playing which is more than half a year ago. If it happens so often I'm sure you can think of a more recent example. Volibear, Xin to some extent, hec, shyv, naut, top lane teemo, rumble... All of these went from rare picks to fotm without significant changes (or no changes at all in some cases) at some point. Granted some just happened to benefit from meta changes or large scale general mechanics changes (S3, S2 jungle, etc) but yes; The majority is often 'wrong'. To comment on the first 3 (and rumble partially though he was already decently popular when I started) - all of them benefitted a LOT from item changes and jungle changes. Can't comment on the rest since that was before my time again. Volibear and xin both benefitted from jungle changes that made junglers without AoE better, locket is an amazing item on both as well (nevermind how good health stacking is for Volibear). Hecarim got a lot better because (especially in solo Q) early ganking became a lot less important and wards became a lot more commonplace. Add to that Frozen Fist + Spirit of the Elder Lizard both being AMAZING items for him. Rumble got a big boost thanks to Liandry's, it's synergy with Rylai's and in competitive play thanks to his 1v2 ability. I agree that sometimes a new champ pops up that was very underrated and that people sometimes underestimate champions (Kha'zix is a major example but I think Sejuani in solo Q as well). But it doesn't happen nearly as often as people think it does. This frustrates me more than ever because I really, really like Quinn but I also think she's really, really bad, while a lot of people are saying she's fine or even sleeper OP. Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 23:15 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 23:05 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 23:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:58 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:52 zulu_nation8 wrote:On March 20 2013 22:43 Serelitz wrote:On March 20 2013 22:39 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Corki/Sivir are as good as all the other AD carries. People have proven time and time again that pick rate is merely a reflection of public prejudice rather than champion strength. 'People have proven?' What about competitive pick rate, or overall win rate, or competitive win rate? Saying something as extremely vague and anecdotal as 'people have proven' doesn't really give any merit to your argument. AP trynd would be the most recent example, something that was played by very few people before his recent nerf, suddenly gained traction and afaik in NA only, but turned out to be so OP that it warranted a hotfix. So I guess "people" haven't proven, as much as the history of LoL changes. AP Trynd is a weird way to play a different champ though, similar to Ssong popularizing Kayle mid. That's not comparable to a champion in his 'intended' role. Ezreal before he became fotm then. The point is there are things everyone misses and everyone is wrong about, and it happens way more often than people seem to remember. Ezreal became 'fotm' before I started playing which is more than half a year ago. If it happens so often I'm sure you can think of a more recent example. oh ok lets just disregard that example then because you didnt start playing till mid season 2. If your only example is 9 months ago then it really isn't very often now is it. I make an argument based on the history of this game, you tell me I'm wrong then admit you don't know anything that happened before 6 months ago.
Ouch!
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On March 20 2013 22:58 schmutttt wrote:
Why does Regi never cop any heat? He has been just as bad as chaox (If not worse) for a while now, and is probably only on the team because he owns it. HSGG gets criticised for the exact same thing....
??? The team usually revolves around Regi who tends to be both the playmaker and the shotcaller for his team. He's a lot stronger in relation to his team than HSGG ...
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On March 20 2013 23:36 phyvo wrote:
So how bad is it that my last hitting plummets to 83/100 (at 10 minutes sharp) when I don't have the benefit of +4 damage to minions on AP mids?
Been practicing my csing and feeling sad panda.
If you feel like your CS is lacking I don't know why you wouldn't take butcher over 2% CDR. Especially earlygame, you almost never have the resources to actually use the CDR well enough.
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EPT
