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On March 05 2013 20:38 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 19:29 Sufficiency wrote:On March 05 2013 19:10 BlueSpace wrote:On March 05 2013 18:48 wussleeQ wrote:On March 05 2013 18:09 Sufficiency wrote:
God please. Can we get a Tristana nerf? that's new She is like a super-buffed Caitlyn in late game now. Shoots further, shoots faster and jumps farther. Just position yourself in the back of the fight and mow everything down. Caitlyn's E does not reset on kills. She always had that. The problem is the damage that comes out of her late game now due to the attack speed buff. She was probably a bit underplayed anyways and the buff pushed her over the edge. For me it's all about the range and the continuous barrage from the back line.
It's W. And yes, Tristana was always awesome, fuck the haters.
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How much more damage does she do lategame then? Like are there any numbers floating? Like her endgame was always godly, that was never the problem...
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That aspd buff makes her aspd go from 2.4 to 2.5. How often can you just stand still and shoot, anyway? Now with BotRK nerfed quite significantly, her progression's just about the same, with a 4% standing-still dps increase in the lategame. Considering that she already was the best lategame carry with Kogmaw, this doesn't change a whole lot.
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On March 05 2013 20:43 JonGalt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 20:18 komokun wrote:
Oo
Shortcake baker skin please.
His E-Tamer is interesting but feels really hard to balance. Also it's counter intuitive to have a spell way stronger at the early stages of the game than later on. Maybe for every rank of E you "tame" more minions. One minion per rank. Or the AOE could get larger with each rank. This seems like it would make more sense. And am I missing a reference or do you literally mean a baker of shortcakes? Because I have no idea how that would fit in with the whip haha.
I just love shortcakes and whippedcream =}
![[image loading]](http://www.la-toque.be/img/logo.jpg)
with a whip in one hand, and cream jar in the other !
Probably not the baddass image you had though.
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Pootie too good!4331 Posts
On March 05 2013 21:25 komokun wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 20:43 JonGalt wrote:On March 05 2013 20:18 komokun wrote:
Oo
Shortcake baker skin please.
His E-Tamer is interesting but feels really hard to balance. Also it's counter intuitive to have a spell way stronger at the early stages of the game than later on. Maybe for every rank of E you "tame" more minions. One minion per rank. Or the AOE could get larger with each rank. This seems like it would make more sense. And am I missing a reference or do you literally mean a baker of shortcakes? Because I have no idea how that would fit in with the whip haha. I just love shortcakes and whippedcream =} with a whip in one hand, and cream jar in the other ! Probably not the baddass image you had though.
Hahahahaha wow. Awesome. Maybe he could fashion a whip from some dough. That could work haha.
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On March 05 2013 21:06 Gaslo wrote:
How much more damage does she do lategame then? Like are there any numbers floating? Like her endgame was always godly, that was never the problem...
That is not an easy question because it depends on the items and also how often she can attack without having to reposition herself. Assume she is lvl 18 and has the following attack speed items botrk, pd and zerkers. Her items give her 40%+20%+50% AS. Lets also assume that she uses her q for +90%. This gives her an attack speed of 2.447. The old trist would have had 2.329. A DPS increase of around 5%. Without the q the absolute numbers are different but the increase is similar.
Also the attack speed buff does not only help in the late game but actually through the entire game because she attacks faster at all levels now then previously. The buff isn't huge but it should be noticeable.
These are raw numbers and don't reflect what happens in an actual teamfight. It's just an indicator of how large the buff was that she received.
On March 05 2013 21:21 Shikyo wrote:
That aspd buff makes her aspd go from 2.4 to 2.5. How often can you just stand still and shoot, anyway? Now with BotRK nerfed quite significantly, her progression's just about the same, with a 4% standing-still dps increase in the lategame. Considering that she already was the best lategame carry with Kogmaw, this doesn't change a whole lot.
Which items/masteries/runes are you using here? (edit: nvm)
Edit: fixed numbers
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On March 05 2013 21:56 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 21:06 Gaslo wrote:
How much more damage does she do lategame then? Like are there any numbers floating? Like her endgame was always godly, that was never the problem... That is not an easy question because it depends on the items and also how often she can attack without having to reposition herself. Assume she is lvl 18 and has the following attack speed items botrk, pd and zerkers. Her items give her 40%+20%+50% AS. Lets also assume that she uses her q for +90%. This gives her an attack speed of 2.184. The old trist would have had 2.077. A DPS increase of around 5%. Without the q the absolute numbers are different but the increase is similar. Also the attack speed buff does not only help in the late game but actually through the entire game because she attacks faster at all levels now then previously. The buff isn't huge but it should be noticeable. These are raw numbers and don't reflect what happens in an actual teamfight. It's just an indicator of how large the buff was that she received. Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 21:21 Shikyo wrote:
That aspd buff makes her aspd go from 2.4 to 2.5. How often can you just stand still and shoot, anyway? Now with BotRK nerfed quite significantly, her progression's just about the same, with a 4% standing-still dps increase in the lategame. Considering that she already was the best lategame carry with Kogmaw, this doesn't change a whole lot. Which items/masteries/runes are you using here?
I'm not certain where your math went wrong here as I don't number crunch this game. But, I had 2.5aspd at level 18 as Tristana with ad/mr/armor/ad runes and only the 4% from masteries.
*edit - I had pd/botrk/zerkers for aspd items and when I looked no one on my team was nearby for an aura.
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On March 05 2013 22:08 JonnyLaw wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 21:56 BlueSpace wrote:On March 05 2013 21:06 Gaslo wrote:
How much more damage does she do lategame then? Like are there any numbers floating? Like her endgame was always godly, that was never the problem... That is not an easy question because it depends on the items and also how often she can attack without having to reposition herself. Assume she is lvl 18 and has the following attack speed items botrk, pd and zerkers. Her items give her 40%+20%+50% AS. Lets also assume that she uses her q for +90%. This gives her an attack speed of 2.184. The old trist would have had 2.077. A DPS increase of around 5%. Without the q the absolute numbers are different but the increase is similar. Also the attack speed buff does not only help in the late game but actually through the entire game because she attacks faster at all levels now then previously. The buff isn't huge but it should be noticeable. These are raw numbers and don't reflect what happens in an actual teamfight. It's just an indicator of how large the buff was that she received. On March 05 2013 21:21 Shikyo wrote:
That aspd buff makes her aspd go from 2.4 to 2.5. How often can you just stand still and shoot, anyway? Now with BotRK nerfed quite significantly, her progression's just about the same, with a 4% standing-still dps increase in the lategame. Considering that she already was the best lategame carry with Kogmaw, this doesn't change a whole lot. Which items/masteries/runes are you using here? I'm not certain where your math went wrong here as I don't number crunch this game. But, I had 2.5aspd at level 18 as Tristana with ad/mr/armor/ad runes and only the 4% from masteries. *edit - I had pd/botrk/zerkers for aspd items and when I looked no one on my team was nearby for an aura.
Bluespace doesn't have Bork in his calculations.
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On March 05 2013 21:56 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 21:06 Gaslo wrote:
How much more damage does she do lategame then? Like are there any numbers floating? Like her endgame was always godly, that was never the problem... That is not an easy question because it depends on the items and also how often she can attack without having to reposition herself. Assume she is lvl 18 and has the following attack speed items botrk, pd and zerkers. Her items give her 40%+20%+50% AS. Lets also assume that she uses her q for +90%. This gives her an attack speed of 2.184. The old trist would have had 2.077. A DPS increase of around 5%. Without the q the absolute numbers are different but the increase is similar. Also the attack speed buff does not only help in the late game but actually through the entire game because she attacks faster at all levels now then previously. The buff isn't huge but it should be noticeable. These are raw numbers and don't reflect what happens in an actual teamfight. It's just an indicator of how large the buff was that she received. Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 21:21 Shikyo wrote:
That aspd buff makes her aspd go from 2.4 to 2.5. How often can you just stand still and shoot, anyway? Now with BotRK nerfed quite significantly, her progression's just about the same, with a 4% standing-still dps increase in the lategame. Considering that she already was the best lategame carry with Kogmaw, this doesn't change a whole lot. Which items/masteries/runes are you using here?
botrk phantom dancer zerkers ie last whisper survivability item
and 4% aspd mastery
Btw I'm sure everyone knows this already, but if you're confident about your lasthitting you should just go with armor penetration runes when you go for botrk builds.
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On March 05 2013 22:20 NpG)Explosive wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 22:08 JonnyLaw wrote:On March 05 2013 21:56 BlueSpace wrote:On March 05 2013 21:06 Gaslo wrote:
How much more damage does she do lategame then? Like are there any numbers floating? Like her endgame was always godly, that was never the problem... That is not an easy question because it depends on the items and also how often she can attack without having to reposition herself. Assume she is lvl 18 and has the following attack speed items botrk, pd and zerkers. Her items give her 40%+20%+50% AS. Lets also assume that she uses her q for +90%. This gives her an attack speed of 2.184. The old trist would have had 2.077. A DPS increase of around 5%. Without the q the absolute numbers are different but the increase is similar. Also the attack speed buff does not only help in the late game but actually through the entire game because she attacks faster at all levels now then previously. The buff isn't huge but it should be noticeable. These are raw numbers and don't reflect what happens in an actual teamfight. It's just an indicator of how large the buff was that she received. On March 05 2013 21:21 Shikyo wrote:
That aspd buff makes her aspd go from 2.4 to 2.5. How often can you just stand still and shoot, anyway? Now with BotRK nerfed quite significantly, her progression's just about the same, with a 4% standing-still dps increase in the lategame. Considering that she already was the best lategame carry with Kogmaw, this doesn't change a whole lot. Which items/masteries/runes are you using here? I'm not certain where your math went wrong here as I don't number crunch this game. But, I had 2.5aspd at level 18 as Tristana with ad/mr/armor/ad runes and only the 4% from masteries. *edit - I had pd/botrk/zerkers for aspd items and when I looked no one on my team was nearby for an aura. Bluespace doesn't have Bork in his calculations.
I actually entered the wrong lvl of q in my tool, which caused the difference. I fixed it now, but it doesn't change that much in terms of relative increase in attack speed.
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On March 05 2013 22:23 Shikyo wrote:
Btw I'm sure everyone knows this already, but if you're confident about your lasthitting you should just go with armor penetration runes when you go for botrk builds.
Bored with bork discussions need arp vs ad again?
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On March 05 2013 22:53 JonnyLaw wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 22:23 Shikyo wrote:
Btw I'm sure everyone knows this already, but if you're confident about your lasthitting you should just go with armor penetration runes when you go for botrk builds. Bored with bork discussions need arp vs ad again?
Everyone knows ad is better for most ad carries
-->[]
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On March 05 2013 20:33 Shikyo wrote:The changes are really nice. Didn't ruin the item, just brought the cost up and made the heal less stupid. It's still really viable, and still strong, but probably not the only option anymore. I don't think there's anything wrong with an item being the best option in most situations, especially because this item active is really fun and important and far more interesting than something like IE. Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 20:07 KissBlade wrote:
I honestly didn't see what the issue with old BoTRK was before it got changed to what it is now. Seems to me Riot could hotfix it by just reverting the damn thing. Honestly the old BotRK clearly had it's niche use and you actually saw it in play with creative uses (heartbeat comes to mind along with the fact that it's also quite popular on ADcasters in Asia). Now it's a no brainer "pub" buy item to make hypercarries better when they're already the current hype of the season for adc's. Looking back, I think that it's funny that Starks was never built when in my opinion it currently would be broken even if it had no ally-affecting aura at all.
Old starks would be OP now only because it's so much harder to get AS and lifesteal nowadays and the penetration changes would benefit the old -20 armor aura. But back then as an ADC there were simply way more efficient ways to increase your personal DPS so building stark's personally was never a great option. Meanwhile supports/junglers/top laners didn't like it because it gave a weird combination of stats that they usually couldn't use well (30 hp5 wtf?) *and* left them super squishy because it basically replaced your BT or delayed your defensive items. Supports could never really afford because before the change to Zeke's it was IIRC the most expensive aura item in the game (I think 2.75k?), Aegis (1.9k lolol) was just a hugely more efficient way of helping your team and gave stats that *everyone* wanted.
Even the zeke's remake had its problems. It was nice to have on your team but was inferior to other auras in the early/midgame as your ADC just didn't do enough damage to benefit much from extra lifesteal/attack speed (and now AD) compared to the extra survivability from Aegis, which was still cheaper. Moreover Aegis was the best item for efficient EHP even without examining the aura while Zeke's DPS stats were still far from efficient unless your team could really use them all. Most importantly the 250 HP was not much defensive compensation considering you just spent 2.5k gold while not really increasing your own DPS. Supports didn't like it because they blow up too easily and would prefer aegis/shurelya's. Top lanes and junglers liked Aegis because their primary jobs were to create space for the ADC by not dying, which was far more effective help than spending 2.5k gold buying an aura that only really benefited the ADC and then dying easily.
Stark's/Zeke's had their situational and endgame uses (I remember one team who would buy Zeke's for their Nasus for OP lifesteal) but they were never remotely close to OP.
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When I logged in just now I had to patch - was it just a hotfix for bork?
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On March 05 2013 22:23 Shikyo wrote:
Shikyo do you mind explaining the signature?
"you are much better than your mmr puts you at" - Lars Løkke
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On March 05 2013 22:54 komokun wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 22:53 JonnyLaw wrote:On March 05 2013 22:23 Shikyo wrote:
Btw I'm sure everyone knows this already, but if you're confident about your lasthitting you should just go with armor penetration runes when you go for botrk builds. Bored with bork discussions need arp vs ad again? Everyone knows ad is better for most ad carries -->[]
It really isn't. people just get ad runes beacuse it makes last hitting really easy. the few cs that you would miss totaly makes up for the lack in ad.
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On March 05 2013 23:17 Blyf wrote:Shikyo do you mind explaining the signature? "you are much better than your mmr puts you at" - Lars Løkke
I have no idea what Lars Løkke quote he is referencing but I laughed my ass off the first time I saw his quote regardless.
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On March 05 2013 23:17 Blyf wrote:Shikyo do you mind explaining the signature? "you are much better than your mmr puts you at" - Lars Løkke
Lars Løkke, new froggen inc.
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Quinn top felt very strong when I played it, especially against melee champs. Q is kind of awkward as it doesn't seem to hit at the extreme end of the animation (I often felt like the bird touched something but didn't do any damage).
Her biggest power in lane seems to be her immense brush control, between Harrier and W active no one can hide from you, so if you manage to poke someone down or get a lead, they're stuck way in the back with little hope of even leeching experience.
You have to be really careful when using E. Because it puts you in melee range for a half second or so, you're going to eat an auto. Really annoying against people with a CC tied to their next auto (Garen, Voli, Naut, Darius, Leona, etc), since you're going to get hit by it before jumping away. Voli almost feels like a straight up counter to her because of it.
Her teamfight is actually pretty good. You have a lot of tools for staying safe, and Tag Team is a very strong steroid if you're forced to be in melee range. I did a BotRK centric build, getting no other AS because between BotRK and W passive, you have enough for the most part. I didn't run enough ArPen and felt it later in the game, though. BC might be a decent buy on her since you can stack is pretty well with auto-E-auto or auto-q-auto.
Just first few games notes.
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On March 05 2013 22:53 JonnyLaw wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 22:23 Shikyo wrote:
Btw I'm sure everyone knows this already, but if you're confident about your lasthitting you should just go with armor penetration runes when you go for botrk builds. Bored with bork discussions need arp vs ad again?
It is botrk not bork and it's a botrk discussion because with that item in specific apen is beneficial. Especially if you start Doran Blade which Chaox at least does on like everything.
He's just an actually good dota player - the sig expresses my displeasure with dota solo queue
By the way, anyone else get "the game is about to start...." and got stuck there while the game started otherwise? First time that's happened to me - Usually everyone else gets stuck there as well. I didn't realize I was the only one so by the time I got back the game had already gone on for 4 minutes.
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EPT
