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On March 06 2013 02:41 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 02:33 cLutZ wrote:On March 06 2013 01:36 sylverfyre wrote:I dunno - I like harassing with W so much that I feel it's good even when you want to be aggressive. I try to mostly use Aqua prison as a disengage (or as a next-step in a chainCC) and the E slow doesn't feel like it's enough to make it reliable. On March 05 2013 23:39 Ketara wrote:
So what does everybody think about the hotfixed BotRK?
Still a must have for pure autoattackers? Situational for other champs now? Shouldn't rush it anymore?
Do discuss. If you're an autoattacker who isn't crit-based (Autoattacking bruisers: Irelia, Jax, etc) then it's definitely a great offensive/sustain item. If you're a carry, it's not 100% obvious anymore. Who else fits into that ETC category right now? Off the top of my head: Xin, J4, Vi (because we're not tired of seeing those 3 junglers at all), Skarner, Rengar, Olaf, Noct (though he can get crit too), Shaco, Trundle, Udyr... maybe Bruiser Teemo or Top Taric. Edit: of course, the silly thing is that Riot has stated on multiple occasions that they don't necessarily want BotRK to be good for bruisers, as they want it to be an ADC choice. But of course, it's a pretty good one-stop-shop for an offensive item if you like chaining auto-attacks and a ranged slow.
Hmm, I feel like a lot of those have always felt more ability-ey than autoattack-y save for Udyr, Noct (I always forget nocturne!), and Trundle.
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nvm. I was talking about bork. Have to read changes.
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On March 06 2013 02:51 Mondeezy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 02:41 Requizen wrote:On March 06 2013 02:33 cLutZ wrote:On March 06 2013 01:36 sylverfyre wrote:I dunno - I like harassing with W so much that I feel it's good even when you want to be aggressive. I try to mostly use Aqua prison as a disengage (or as a next-step in a chainCC) and the E slow doesn't feel like it's enough to make it reliable. On March 05 2013 23:39 Ketara wrote:
So what does everybody think about the hotfixed BotRK?
Still a must have for pure autoattackers? Situational for other champs now? Shouldn't rush it anymore?
Do discuss. If you're an autoattacker who isn't crit-based (Autoattacking bruisers: Irelia, Jax, etc) then it's definitely a great offensive/sustain item. If you're a carry, it's not 100% obvious anymore. Who else fits into that ETC category right now? Off the top of my head: Xin, J4, Vi (because we're not tired of seeing those 3 junglers at all), Skarner, Rengar, Olaf, Noct (though he can get crit too), Shaco, Trundle, Udyr... maybe Bruiser Teemo or Top Taric. Edit: of course, the silly thing is that Riot has stated on multiple occasions that they don't necessarily want BotRK to be good for bruisers, as they want it to be an ADC choice. But of course, it's a pretty good one-stop-shop for an offensive item if you like chaining auto-attacks and a ranged slow. Played with a rengar that picked up botrk yesterday. Straight up demolished everyone lol.
Not surprised, thinking about it. A second point and click ranged slow for him (and a hard hitting nuke as well), passive with his auto reset, andstats sync nicely with his 50% (or 100% with Ferocity) AS boost. I think it could work out as being his best single-damage item, competing with TF. Makes me want to try it, but I don't think it's enough to make up for Rengar's other issues.
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On March 06 2013 01:36 sylverfyre wrote:
I dunno - I like harassing with W so much that I feel it's good even when you want to be aggressive. I try to mostly use Aqua prison as a disengage (or as a next-step in a chainCC) and the E slow doesn't feel like it's enough to make it reliable.
i think the slow from tidecaller's blessing gets better once you have 3 levels on it. one level is sejuani level, lol.
how do you deal with the mana costs of ebb and flow?
i always run out of mana even if i spend my mana only on ebb and flow.
on a side note, i hate calling things Q/W/E but on the other hand, i feel like that many skills are so poorly named that it's more awkward to call it by its real name.
it's really bad as a syndra player.
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Nope, Vi is much more about auto-attacks than abilities for her damage, since her W is autoattacks anyway and her E is an auto-reset.
Trundle however probably likes AD, ArPen and CDR rather than AD/ArPen/AS due to his Q mechanic, already having AS on W, and how all of his spells benfit so much from CDR.
And I don't see Nautilus hitting an auto on a Quinn Vaulting him, sadly. The animation is super duper awkward and he has the worst base AS (and one of the worst AS scalings) in the game so... 
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On March 06 2013 02:54 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 02:41 Requizen wrote:On March 06 2013 02:33 cLutZ wrote:On March 06 2013 01:36 sylverfyre wrote:I dunno - I like harassing with W so much that I feel it's good even when you want to be aggressive. I try to mostly use Aqua prison as a disengage (or as a next-step in a chainCC) and the E slow doesn't feel like it's enough to make it reliable. On March 05 2013 23:39 Ketara wrote:
So what does everybody think about the hotfixed BotRK?
Still a must have for pure autoattackers? Situational for other champs now? Shouldn't rush it anymore?
Do discuss. If you're an autoattacker who isn't crit-based (Autoattacking bruisers: Irelia, Jax, etc) then it's definitely a great offensive/sustain item. If you're a carry, it's not 100% obvious anymore. Who else fits into that ETC category right now? Off the top of my head: Xin, J4, Vi (because we're not tired of seeing those 3 junglers at all), Skarner, Rengar, Olaf, Noct (though he can get crit too), Shaco, Trundle, Udyr... maybe Bruiser Teemo or Top Taric. Edit: of course, the silly thing is that Riot has stated on multiple occasions that they don't necessarily want BotRK to be good for bruisers, as they want it to be an ADC choice. But of course, it's a pretty good one-stop-shop for an offensive item if you like chaining auto-attacks and a ranged slow. Hmm, I feel like a lot of those have always felt more ability-ey than autoattack-y save for Udyr, Noct (I always forget nocturne!), and Trundle.
Which ones? Olaf sure, but aside from him, of the ones I listed, their abilities are mainly utility (Jarvan knockup/ult, Xin charge/ult, Vi dash, Skarner pull), and almost all of them have attack resets or AS steroids. They're all prime candidates for BotRK.
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On the subject of Trundle, is his Q still bugged and not applying auto damage or bonus damage or something?
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You can't directlink azubu channels?
Can't even begin to state how stupid that is. I can't see it competing with twitch at all in that case.
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BOTRK was really good on jungle Udyr. WIth Golem Spirit and mobility boots you are just so fast/tenacious. Coupled with the 1v1 dueling the BOTRK offers you can go wherever you want on the map. I am yet to see how these new changes work out. Looks like I meight have been forced back to Zephyr/Wits end.
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Wow you weren't kidding thats the dumbest oversight I've ever seen. How could azubu look at the competition and not include linking to streams. Its an otherwise superior service but that lack of linking thing is just silly bad.
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i wish doublelift was on better team his vayne is absolutely stunning.
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On March 06 2013 02:59 Alaric wrote:Nope, Vi is much more about auto-attacks than abilities for her damage, since her W is autoattacks anyway and her E is an auto-reset. Trundle however probably likes AD, ArPen and CDR rather than AD/ArPen/AS due to his Q mechanic, already having AS on W, and how all of his spells benfit so much from CDR. And I don't see Nautilus hitting an auto on a Quinn Vaulting him, sadly. The animation is super duper awkward and he has the worst base AS (and one of the worst AS scalings) in the game so...
E resetting them = an argument against aspd. Q and R and E having ratios against aspd. W is the only thing for aspd, when you don't have E for resets.
In my opinion, it's clear that you itemize for her ratios.
By the way, I really feel like Quinn E is EXTREMELY clunky. Can you even auto while she's in the air, retreating? You can skillshot her freely after she does it, and her DPS seems awful during it.
nevermind, you can directlink azubu streams, I just have no idea how to get the link.
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Not really diggin Azubu whole page layout etc yet and the fact that but well they still have time to work on it.
quality is pretty good though.
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On March 06 2013 03:01 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 02:54 cLutZ wrote:On March 06 2013 02:41 Requizen wrote:On March 06 2013 02:33 cLutZ wrote:On March 06 2013 01:36 sylverfyre wrote:I dunno - I like harassing with W so much that I feel it's good even when you want to be aggressive. I try to mostly use Aqua prison as a disengage (or as a next-step in a chainCC) and the E slow doesn't feel like it's enough to make it reliable. On March 05 2013 23:39 Ketara wrote:
So what does everybody think about the hotfixed BotRK?
Still a must have for pure autoattackers? Situational for other champs now? Shouldn't rush it anymore?
Do discuss. If you're an autoattacker who isn't crit-based (Autoattacking bruisers: Irelia, Jax, etc) then it's definitely a great offensive/sustain item. If you're a carry, it's not 100% obvious anymore. Who else fits into that ETC category right now? Off the top of my head: Xin, J4, Vi (because we're not tired of seeing those 3 junglers at all), Skarner, Rengar, Olaf, Noct (though he can get crit too), Shaco, Trundle, Udyr... maybe Bruiser Teemo or Top Taric. Edit: of course, the silly thing is that Riot has stated on multiple occasions that they don't necessarily want BotRK to be good for bruisers, as they want it to be an ADC choice. But of course, it's a pretty good one-stop-shop for an offensive item if you like chaining auto-attacks and a ranged slow. Hmm, I feel like a lot of those have always felt more ability-ey than autoattack-y save for Udyr, Noct (I always forget nocturne!), and Trundle. Which ones? Olaf sure, but aside from him, of the ones I listed, their abilities are mainly utility (Jarvan knockup/ult, Xin charge/ult, Vi dash, Skarner pull), and almost all of them have attack resets or AS steroids. They're all prime candidates for BotRK.
On March 06 2013 03:29 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 02:59 Alaric wrote:Nope, Vi is much more about auto-attacks than abilities for her damage, since her W is autoattacks anyway and her E is an auto-reset. Trundle however probably likes AD, ArPen and CDR rather than AD/ArPen/AS due to his Q mechanic, already having AS on W, and how all of his spells benfit so much from CDR. And I don't see Nautilus hitting an auto on a Quinn Vaulting him, sadly. The animation is super duper awkward and he has the worst base AS (and one of the worst AS scalings) in the game so... E resetting them = an argument against aspd. Q and R and E having ratios against aspd. W is the only thing for aspd, when you don't have E for resets. In my opinion, it's clear that you itemize for her ratios. By the way, I really feel like Quinn E is EXTREMELY clunky. Can you even auto while she's in the air, retreating? You can skillshot her freely after she does it, and her DPS seems awful during it. nevermind, you can directlink azubu streams, I just have no idea how to get the link.
I was more asking because I like playing Jax and Irelia, need more characters like them.
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I love the azubu tv streams, so far the only service I have watched that hasnt lagged a single second even on 1080p, someone found a way to direct link streams btw (popout and use the url for that window iirc) but it sould be easier.
http://t.co/wejBn3AGaD direct link
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On March 06 2013 03:29 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 02:59 Alaric wrote:Nope, Vi is much more about auto-attacks than abilities for her damage, since her W is autoattacks anyway and her E is an auto-reset. Trundle however probably likes AD, ArPen and CDR rather than AD/ArPen/AS due to his Q mechanic, already having AS on W, and how all of his spells benfit so much from CDR. And I don't see Nautilus hitting an auto on a Quinn Vaulting him, sadly. The animation is super duper awkward and he has the worst base AS (and one of the worst AS scalings) in the game so... E resetting them = an argument against aspd. Q and R and E having ratios against aspd. W is the only thing for aspd, when you don't have E for resets. In my opinion, it's clear that you itemize for her ratios. By the way, I really feel like Quinn E is EXTREMELY clunky. Can you even auto while she's in the air, retreating? You can skillshot her freely after she does it, and her DPS seems awful during it. nevermind, you can directlink azubu streams, I just have no idea how to get the link.
BotRK isn't just AS though. The AD and proc work with her E (ratio and reset), her Q and ult both have AD ratios. She'll like the sustain as well (not having any of her own outside of passive), and the slow gives her some much needed sticking power.
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Someone should just send feedback and tell azubu to make direct links to channels easier to find, I speak from personal experience when I say that developers sometimes get blinded by shiny javascript
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I'm not liking BotRK too much on jungle Vi, but that's probably because I tend to not take the kills and not get fed, so the new price makes it pretty hard to get sufficiently tanky afterward, considering you also have boots2 to build, etc. (the enemy team had a Mordekaiser so obviously stacking HP and armour doesn't work as well against him as against burst mages who won't focus you).
It's still bullshit for soloing drake in a pretty fast timing window, but I like Mallet better to stick to people, and phage+boots2 is superior early on I feel.
Cutlass being kinda underwhelming obviously doesn't help when you need to be active early and can't just farm that 1800 gold gap to BotRK. I guess somebody with a more aggressive/successful playstyle, or just plain better than me, would make it work better (just seeing TOO rushing BotRK on Nocturne), but overall I think that despite being viable it's too much in-between the other builds (doesn't burst as much as damage Vi early on, weakening her early ganks/game, doesn't tanky nearly as well as tanky Vi, taking away a lot of the additional damage's interest since it's dps oriented).
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The direct comparison for BotRK for Vi is Bloodthirster and in my opinion the choice is clear unless you really value the active highly(you might).
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On March 06 2013 02:54 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 02:41 Requizen wrote:On March 06 2013 02:33 cLutZ wrote:On March 06 2013 01:36 sylverfyre wrote:I dunno - I like harassing with W so much that I feel it's good even when you want to be aggressive. I try to mostly use Aqua prison as a disengage (or as a next-step in a chainCC) and the E slow doesn't feel like it's enough to make it reliable. On March 05 2013 23:39 Ketara wrote:
So what does everybody think about the hotfixed BotRK?
Still a must have for pure autoattackers? Situational for other champs now? Shouldn't rush it anymore?
Do discuss. If you're an autoattacker who isn't crit-based (Autoattacking bruisers: Irelia, Jax, etc) then it's definitely a great offensive/sustain item. If you're a carry, it's not 100% obvious anymore. Who else fits into that ETC category right now? Off the top of my head: Xin, J4, Vi (because we're not tired of seeing those 3 junglers at all), Skarner, Rengar, Olaf, Noct (though he can get crit too), Shaco, Trundle, Udyr... maybe Bruiser Teemo or Top Taric. Edit: of course, the silly thing is that Riot has stated on multiple occasions that they don't necessarily want BotRK to be good for bruisers, as they want it to be an ADC choice. But of course, it's a pretty good one-stop-shop for an offensive item if you like chaining auto-attacks and a ranged slow. Hmm, I feel like a lot of those have always felt more ability-ey than autoattack-y save for Udyr, Noct (I always forget nocturne!), and Trundle.
I built pre-nerf Bork on Elise and it put in work.. the item was seriously ridiculous. Probably going to pass on it post-nerf though.
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EPT
