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United States23745 Posts
On March 05 2013 14:34 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 14:18 thenexusp wrote:On March 05 2013 12:40 cLutZ wrote:On March 05 2013 12:25 UniversalSnip wrote:
finally. smash, tell your coworkers to buy a calculator. I know that's a jerkass thing to say but there's no excuse for this.
the changes are along the lines of what I expected - give the recipe zero ad, add cost. I thought they'd hit the active harder but that looks pretty satisfactory. Its odd, because I haven't understood a large majority of Riot's balance changes dating back to the Pre-S3 (and I think a large # of this community + others who dabble in the PBE agree with me). BC, Locket, BOTRK. Even champ remakes seemed odd, like the random Hec buff a while back, the obvious problem Eve was going to be upon rework, etc. I dont get it. I agree that Riot's balancing is weird, but the hecarim buff wasn't random - it was compensating for losing 25 bonus MS from boots and thus lower AD because of his passive. I dont recall exactly, but wasn't it a per lvl buff with them also introducing machete around that time? Seems silly to make ANY changes to any junglers right around the time you completely revamp the entire jungle. What also frustrates me is the disconnect between what they say and what the changes they make actually accomplish. I.E. the recent Nunu nerfs were to "make him less passive", so sure they nerf bloodboil (justified), but don't make changes elsewhere in the kit to let him be more active like making his passive like nocturnes (charges up over time, but sped up by autoattacks) or just outright giving him an snowball buff.
Yeah, nerfing an "OP" part of a champion doesn't preclude them from buffing other aspects at the same time. Well actually...that's kinda what they did with Taric I guess.
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On March 05 2013 13:57 wussleeQ wrote:
wellp good time for LoL to go out... tomb raider just came out! weeee ^_^
Seriously, strike be damned!
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On March 05 2013 14:34 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 14:18 thenexusp wrote:On March 05 2013 12:40 cLutZ wrote:On March 05 2013 12:25 UniversalSnip wrote:
finally. smash, tell your coworkers to buy a calculator. I know that's a jerkass thing to say but there's no excuse for this.
the changes are along the lines of what I expected - give the recipe zero ad, add cost. I thought they'd hit the active harder but that looks pretty satisfactory. Its odd, because I haven't understood a large majority of Riot's balance changes dating back to the Pre-S3 (and I think a large # of this community + others who dabble in the PBE agree with me). BC, Locket, BOTRK. Even champ remakes seemed odd, like the random Hec buff a while back, the obvious problem Eve was going to be upon rework, etc. I dont get it. I agree that Riot's balancing is weird, but the hecarim buff wasn't random - it was compensating for losing 25 bonus MS from boots and thus lower AD because of his passive. I dont recall exactly, but wasn't it a per lvl buff with them also introducing machete around that time? Seems silly to make ANY changes to any junglers right around the time you completely revamp the entire jungle. What also frustrates me is the disconnect between what they say and what the changes they make actually accomplish. I.E. the recent Nunu nerfs were to "make him less passive", so sure they nerf bloodboil (justified), but don't make changes elsewhere in the kit to let him be more active like making his passive like nocturnes (charges up over time, but sped up by autoattacks) or just outright giving him an snowball buff.
It's because Hec's passive percentage of MS converted to AD increases with level, so missing an extra 25 MS means more AD lost at later levels than earlier levels (by about 3 AD)
If you do the math out, as long as hecarim got level 1 boots, his AD before and after the s3 patch was basically the same.
Also, they did buff nunu elsewhere -- he got a bunch of extra base MS (mostly to compensate for his blood boil not giving as much MS though)
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On March 05 2013 14:58 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 14:34 cLutZ wrote:On March 05 2013 14:18 thenexusp wrote:On March 05 2013 12:40 cLutZ wrote:On March 05 2013 12:25 UniversalSnip wrote:
finally. smash, tell your coworkers to buy a calculator. I know that's a jerkass thing to say but there's no excuse for this.
the changes are along the lines of what I expected - give the recipe zero ad, add cost. I thought they'd hit the active harder but that looks pretty satisfactory. Its odd, because I haven't understood a large majority of Riot's balance changes dating back to the Pre-S3 (and I think a large # of this community + others who dabble in the PBE agree with me). BC, Locket, BOTRK. Even champ remakes seemed odd, like the random Hec buff a while back, the obvious problem Eve was going to be upon rework, etc. I dont get it. I agree that Riot's balancing is weird, but the hecarim buff wasn't random - it was compensating for losing 25 bonus MS from boots and thus lower AD because of his passive. I dont recall exactly, but wasn't it a per lvl buff with them also introducing machete around that time? Seems silly to make ANY changes to any junglers right around the time you completely revamp the entire jungle. What also frustrates me is the disconnect between what they say and what the changes they make actually accomplish. I.E. the recent Nunu nerfs were to "make him less passive", so sure they nerf bloodboil (justified), but don't make changes elsewhere in the kit to let him be more active like making his passive like nocturnes (charges up over time, but sped up by autoattacks) or just outright giving him an snowball buff. It's because Hec's passive percentage of MS converted to AD increases with level, so missing an extra 25 MS means more AD lost at later levels than earlier levels (by about 3 AD) If you do the math out, as long as hecarim got level 1 boots, his AD before and after the s3 patch was basically teh same.
Yeah... it wasn't a buff at all, it was literally keeping him the same while changing boots, which would have otherwise been a hecarim nerf.
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On March 05 2013 14:59 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 14:58 thenexusp wrote:On March 05 2013 14:34 cLutZ wrote:On March 05 2013 14:18 thenexusp wrote:On March 05 2013 12:40 cLutZ wrote:On March 05 2013 12:25 UniversalSnip wrote:
finally. smash, tell your coworkers to buy a calculator. I know that's a jerkass thing to say but there's no excuse for this.
the changes are along the lines of what I expected - give the recipe zero ad, add cost. I thought they'd hit the active harder but that looks pretty satisfactory. Its odd, because I haven't understood a large majority of Riot's balance changes dating back to the Pre-S3 (and I think a large # of this community + others who dabble in the PBE agree with me). BC, Locket, BOTRK. Even champ remakes seemed odd, like the random Hec buff a while back, the obvious problem Eve was going to be upon rework, etc. I dont get it. I agree that Riot's balancing is weird, but the hecarim buff wasn't random - it was compensating for losing 25 bonus MS from boots and thus lower AD because of his passive. I dont recall exactly, but wasn't it a per lvl buff with them also introducing machete around that time? Seems silly to make ANY changes to any junglers right around the time you completely revamp the entire jungle. What also frustrates me is the disconnect between what they say and what the changes they make actually accomplish. I.E. the recent Nunu nerfs were to "make him less passive", so sure they nerf bloodboil (justified), but don't make changes elsewhere in the kit to let him be more active like making his passive like nocturnes (charges up over time, but sped up by autoattacks) or just outright giving him an snowball buff. It's because Hec's passive percentage of MS converted to AD increases with level, so missing an extra 25 MS means more AD lost at later levels than earlier levels (by about 3 AD) If you do the math out, as long as hecarim got level 1 boots, his AD before and after the s3 patch was basically teh same. Yeah... it wasn't a buff at all, it was literally keeping him the same while changing boots, which would have otherwise been a hecarim nerf.
Although, it's kind of funny how they make sure to keep hecarim the same through s3 item patches but then not buff rammus and galio too (since resistances are more expensive, their passives become weaker)
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Since when is Diana so strong holy fuck
I started playing her today randomly in 3 games, and went legendary in all of them.
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United States23745 Posts
On March 05 2013 15:10 Dusty wrote:
Since when is Diana so strong holy fuck
I started playing her today randomly in 3 games, and went legendary in all of them.
Yeah she's been in a pretty good spot right now. The buffs Riot made to compensate for the huge nerf they gave her were pretty good.
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Well that was an interesting experiment in semi-troll normals while ranked was down. If you grab lee sin, J4, + 2 more tanky sunfire characters (I was thinking renekton+xin+mundo+J4 would work better, mundo jungle, renekton top, j4+xin bot lane) + AD (tristana works best for this) carry mid. Get sunfire first on all laners/jungle, "support" goes sightstone -> sunfire+warmogs and then continue to build tank items + botrk. How can 160 AoE magic damage possibly go wrong? botrk is the only damage item renekton/xin/j4 really need you get massive AoE. Was fun to play I must admit.
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On March 05 2013 15:15 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 15:10 Dusty wrote:
Since when is Diana so strong holy fuck
I started playing her today randomly in 3 games, and went legendary in all of them. Yeah she's been in a pretty good spot right now. The buffs Riot made to compensate for the huge nerf they gave her were pretty good.
honestly the fact that eve isnt as big a thing anymore is also a huge help to her lol
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On March 05 2013 15:33 Lmui wrote:
Well that was an interesting experiment in semi-troll normals while ranked was down. If you grab lee sin, J4, + 2 more tanky sunfire characters (I was thinking renekton+xin+mundo+J4 would work better, mundo jungle, renekton top, j4+xin bot lane) + AD (tristana works best for this) carry mid. Get sunfire first on all laners/jungle, "support" goes sightstone -> sunfire+warmogs and then continue to build tank items + botrk. How can 160 AoE magic damage possibly go wrong? botrk is the only damage item renekton/xin/j4 really need you get massive AoE. Was fun to play I must admit.
Isn't the passive on sunfire unique?
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United States23745 Posts
On March 05 2013 15:52 Navi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 15:15 onlywonderboy wrote:On March 05 2013 15:10 Dusty wrote:
Since when is Diana so strong holy fuck
I started playing her today randomly in 3 games, and went legendary in all of them. Yeah she's been in a pretty good spot right now. The buffs Riot made to compensate for the huge nerf they gave her were pretty good. honestly the fact that eve isnt as big a thing anymore is also a huge help to her lol
Did Eve give her that much trouble? Don't really recall that match-up.
On March 05 2013 16:03 Aldrovandi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 15:33 Lmui wrote:
Well that was an interesting experiment in semi-troll normals while ranked was down. If you grab lee sin, J4, + 2 more tanky sunfire characters (I was thinking renekton+xin+mundo+J4 would work better, mundo jungle, renekton top, j4+xin bot lane) + AD (tristana works best for this) carry mid. Get sunfire first on all laners/jungle, "support" goes sightstone -> sunfire+warmogs and then continue to build tank items + botrk. How can 160 AoE magic damage possibly go wrong? botrk is the only damage item renekton/xin/j4 really need you get massive AoE. Was fun to play I must admit. Isn't the passive on sunfire unique?
One character can't stack it, but it'll stack if they are all on different champions.
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So what does the public at large think of Quinn's current state? My initial impressions are that her damage output isn't terrible, but compared to other ADC's, she isn't that fantastic. Furthermore, she seems to have next to no survivability or escape mechanism aside from her ult's speed, she's very slow, she has no chase potential besides her ult (again), and her laning ability doesn't seem to pair up well against most ADC's. Her E has a whole host of problems, including the fact that it doesn't gain you much distance if you try to escape with it, you have to bounce off your opponent (getting closer to them) before you bounce away, you can't attack throughout the animation, and using it to try to chase someone puts you at the limit of your range, meaning your opponent just has to wait for you to use E and then use any escape ability they have, putting themselves permanently out of reach. Anyone else getting this underwhelming vibe from Quinn?
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On March 05 2013 16:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:
So what does the public at large think of Quinn's current state? My initial impressions are that her damage output isn't terrible, but compared to other ADC's, she isn't that fantastic. Furthermore, she seems to have next to no survivability or escape mechanism aside from her ult's speed, she's very slow, she has no chase potential besides her ult (again), and her laning ability doesn't seem to pair up well against most ADC's. Her E has a whole host of problems, including the fact that it doesn't gain you much distance if you try to escape with it, you have to bounce off your opponent (getting closer to them) before you bounce away, you can't attack throughout the animation, and using it to try to chase someone puts you at the limit of your range, meaning your opponent just has to wait for you to use E and then use any escape ability they have, putting themselves permanently out of reach. Anyone else getting this underwhelming vibe from Quinn?
Lots of high elo players have been doing Quinn mid, as she scales very well with levels and her ult is great at roaming. Perhaps it is more suitable for her!
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United States23745 Posts
Actual change to BotRK on the live client.
+650 Gold
25 AD instead of 30
60 bonus damage against minions instead of 90.
Edit: Also they said the heal on the nuke is going to be based on damage post mitigation instead of pre-mitigation.
Not sure the effect this will have. At first glance it doesn't seem too bad, but inb4 someone corrects me and explains with math how it's actually trash now lol.
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Quinn is underwhelming if you try to play her in a duo lane. She's much better suited to mid or top, where she can freely position herself to harass with Q and zone with her passive (without interference). Her E is fairly obviously an anti-dive tool primarily, if you're trying to use it to escape someone who isn't already on top of you. W is also clearly better in a situation where you're in charge of warding (and thus will often have multiple ganking paths to be concerned about).
Also, you can cancel the jump back from E if you flash the moment you reach your target.
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Its a good change, not too bad still
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On March 05 2013 16:31 onlywonderboy wrote:Actual change to BotRK on the live client.+650 Gold 25 AD instead of 30 60 bonus damage against minions instead of 90. Edit: Also they said the heal on the nuke is going to be based on damage post mitigation instead of pre-mitigation. Not sure the effect this will have. At first glance it doesn't seem too bad, but inb4 someone corrects me and explains with math how it's actually trash now lol.
Its auto attack DPS is basically unchanged. Its ability to swing a lane fight is lower but still 22.5% of enemies max health. I would purchase it at the same 2 and 4 item timing for ADC's and still first for Vayne/Kog
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On March 05 2013 16:39 Seuss wrote:
Quinn is underwhelming if you try to play her in a duo lane. She's much better suited to mid or top, where she can freely position herself to harass with Q and zone with her passive (without interference). Her E is fairly obviously an anti-dive tool primarily, if you're trying to use it to escape someone who isn't already on top of you. W is also clearly better in a situation where you're in charge of warding (and thus will often have multiple ganking paths to be concerned about).
Also, you can cancel the jump back from E if you flash the moment you reach your target.
Also, the moment you jump on a signed with ur E, you are gonna have a bad time
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I'm glad Diana isn't as silly as she was at world's.
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EPT
