Last post was answering without having caught up, I saw the trailer after, it's so good haha. And that "Mundo~" parody of "Windows". :')
On March 02 2013 04:09 Purge wrote: Next thing, PSA: Liandries got patched so that It works more efficiently with DoT spells. Apparently they were losing some .5 second ticks on it over time so now its even more rediculous on them than before. I dont know if it was in the patch notes.
Did you read it somewhere or did you test it? I'd test myself but farming 3k gold then busting some jungle monster ~15 minutes with the setup + game and I'm lazy. I'd really be annoyed if Liandry's was made to be universally good. It was originally an item you'd be able to buy so you don't just sit on your mediocre slot-efficiency Haunting Guise late game, so having it be "better" but not that good or amazing was pretty fine, trade midgame power for less power lategame. It they buff it too much they'll just have created another good item and that's it, which is hurting the variety of powercurves depending on build paths.
Compare BotRK for Statikk Shiv, for 300 gold. Remember that AD carries don't buy IE first anymore in most cases. Put some Value on Shiv's 20% crit. Compare it to the passive/active, 30 AD and 12% lifesteal from BotRK. Tell me it's overreacting again.
I think you are comparing it to the wrong thing. Compare BT to BotRK. You can have both Shiv and BotRK.
Too much gold dumped in AS, not enough in AD. Plus it's anti-synergistic because BotRK's passive won't interact with crit the way Shiv's does.
If Morgana's black shields block's Vi's ult, why don't people play Morgana. Black shield is arguably the best utility spell in the game for keeping an ADC alive
I think heartbeat has shown just how well BotRK can replace BT on Tristana. Theorycraft aside, he showed it in practice, which I would say is much better.
On March 02 2013 05:42 RagequitBM wrote: I think heartbeat has shown just how well BotRK can replace BT on Tristana. Theorycraft aside, he showed it in practice, which I would say is much better.
That's not exactly hard to do--Trist was never a *good* BT user (no AD ratios on spells), and BT-first was largely out of necessity for that item timing rather than the item being particularly good for her. BotRK is just better at that item timing for a hero that is almost exclusively autoattack-based for damage.
On March 02 2013 05:41 MattBarry wrote: If Morgana's black shields block's Vi's ult, why don't people play Morgana. Black shield is arguably the best utility spell in the game for keeping an ADC alive
Send your AD carry + support mid, or even just the AD mid, laugh as Morgana can't clear for shit against any decent pusher, can't block physical damage, and has to deal with her atrocious base AS and MS and her 475 auto range. She's much more abusable than people refuse to acknowledge, even at her height.
She's also a burst mage that needs to stand in range of everyone for a long period of time (3.5s min. is long, yes), with a "poke" consisting of a skillshot with a horrendous animation making it pretty easy to dodge during sieges (its 1300 range and 300 + 0.9 AP damage are pretty good points though) and the way her W is strongly reliant on the rest of her kit to get decent damage off and you actually have a mage with fairly low damage/efficiency in dealing it in the current health meta.
On March 02 2013 05:41 MattBarry wrote: If Morgana's black shields block's Vi's ult, why don't people play Morgana. Black shield is arguably the best utility spell in the game for keeping an ADC alive
Send your AD carry + support mid, or even just the AD mid, laugh as Morgana can't clear for shit against any decent pusher, can't block physical damage, and has to deal with her atrocious base AS and MS and her 475 auto range. She's much more abusable than people refuse to acknowledge, even at her height.
Yeah but support Morgana has been run in pro games before and with the popularity of Vi I don't think running support Morgana is out of the question. Especially if the enemy team picks a support like Blitz or Thresh.
On March 02 2013 05:41 MattBarry wrote: If Morgana's black shields block's Vi's ult, why don't people play Morgana. Black shield is arguably the best utility spell in the game for keeping an ADC alive
Send your AD carry + support mid, or even just the AD mid, laugh as Morgana can't clear for shit against any decent pusher, can't block physical damage, and has to deal with her atrocious base AS and MS and her 475 auto range. She's much more abusable than people refuse to acknowledge, even at her height.
Morgana pushes just fine (tormented soil exists). Unfortunately her AA range is 425 not 475, even worse than you thought lol. Still, worse early game mids make it into pro level games and Morgana has insane ratios, bases, and utility.
Tormented Soil needs the wave to stand still or it'll get something like 2 ticks per minion. It's obnoxious to deal with if you can't clear, but if you can clear the wave (or at least the melee minions) in less than the 5s she needs, her waveclearing ability takes a heavy hit. Try Mordekaiser/Gragas/Lux/Viktor/other champs able to instaclear against her and it becomes very apparent. Hell, even Kayle would manage to outpush a Morgana.
Considering this, good pushing carries like Cait, Sivir, Graves, or even others like Varus, Ashe, Trist coupled with a support able to help the pushing (Leona, Lulu, Thresh somewhat, Zyra, etc.) could easily force her to farm at tower.
On March 02 2013 05:55 Alaric wrote: Tormented Soil needs the wave to stand still or it'll get something like 2 ticks per minion. It's obnoxious to deal with if you can't clear, but if you can clear the wave (or at least the melee minions) in less than the 5s she needs, her waveclearing ability takes a heavy hit. Try Mordekaiser/Gragas/Lux/Viktor/other champs able to instaclear against her and it becomes very apparent. Hell, even Kayle would manage to outpush a Morgana.
None of those champs can insta clear a wave that early. None of them could even clear a wave fast enough to make their own minions move pre-6 except probably Morde
BotRK rush has a clear weakness for finishing off opponents. I've noticed that even though early on it seems I'm crushing them, when they have low hp they tend to come back and even get the kill themselves. Really need to save all burst for the end, which tends to be pretty meh because generally you want to spend your burst right away because it's important to chunk their hp as fast as possible. BotRK rush especially has trouble against champions that have sustain, finishing them off can be a real pain. You'd also want to save the active for finishing them off but that's kind of dumb because it's best used early to get the benefits.
I still think it's the best item to go for for like, Tristana, but you really need to save your burst for the end, and lasthitting with her ult can have some rather unfortunate consequences.
The damage you can deal with random pokes during mid vs mid standoffs is really great, though. With a BotRK it might even be beneficial to intentionally swap targets in teamfights to get all high hp targets low for your team to cleanup... Though if you end up with 5 opponents at sub 300 hp that'll be quite unfortunate.
Oh yeah and "it does more dmg than BT if they have more than 1.4k hp" is bs, they'll stay at low hp for longer than at high hp.
On March 02 2013 06:01 Shikyo wrote: Oh yeah and "it does more dmg than BT if they have more than 1.4k hp" is bs, they'll stay at low hp for longer than at high hp.
This also doesn't factor in that ADCs who have AD scaling abilities might still benefit more from the increased AD on BT. Miss Fortune or Graves for example might still prefer BT over BotRK whereas someone like Tristana or Ashe might like BotRK in nearly every situation.
On March 02 2013 06:01 Shikyo wrote: Oh yeah and "it does more dmg than BT if they have more than 1.4k hp" is bs, they'll stay at low hp for longer than at high hp.
This also doesn't factor in that ADCs who have AD scaling abilities might still benefit more from the increased AD on BT. Miss Fortune or Graves for example might still prefer BT over BotRK whereas someone like Tristana or Ashe might like BotRK in nearly every situation.
does it still work with phys abilites? if yes abilities which have less than 1:1 ad scaling still do more dmg with botrk than bt vs targets with >1.4k hp, lets not forget very convenient build path and fact this item actually costs 400 gold less, you can buy extra 10ad for that
On March 02 2013 06:01 Shikyo wrote: Oh yeah and "it does more dmg than BT if they have more than 1.4k hp" is bs, they'll stay at low hp for longer than at high hp.
This also doesn't factor in that ADCs who have AD scaling abilities might still benefit more from the increased AD on BT. Miss Fortune or Graves for example might still prefer BT over BotRK whereas someone like Tristana or Ashe might like BotRK in nearly every situation.
does it still work with phys abilites? if yes abilities which have less than 1:1 ad scaling still do more dmg with botrk than bt vs targets with >1.4k hp, lets not forget very convenient build path and fact this item actually costs 400 gold less, you can buy extra 10ad for that
The passive only applies upon auto-attacks not physical damage spells. It should apply with something like GP Q, Ez Q, MF Q because they apply on-hits but it wouldn't apply with MF ult or Graves Q/R.
And yeah, it's really possible that as of right now BotRK is just the best thing to get. But once they increase the cost and/or nerf the stats it'll probably be an item better suited for champs without AD scaling abilities.
Not sure if everyone knows this, found it on BotRK lolwiki just now: "The heal from the active effect will always be equal to 15% of the target's health - it is calculated before the effects of damage mitigation are considered. (TESTED)"
EPT
