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On February 20 2013 02:39 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 02:37 ketchup wrote:On February 20 2013 02:36 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 20 2013 02:19 Sponkz wrote:On February 20 2013 02:04 NeoIllusions wrote:On February 20 2013 01:59 wussleeQ wrote:
What counters ap trynd? in terms of laning and stopping his split push? I've been playing him a lot lately and once he gets the 39% cdr he's pretty much embarrassingly broken. If this is ranked, AP Teemo with Morello's is a hard counter. I do have a feeling that Riot will do something about AP Trynd by next month. As for Supports, like I've said before, I've entirely abandoned GP items since the start of Season 3. Open Flask and 2 Wards. First item is always Sightstone, followed up by Locket. I don't think I've deviated from that build at all, it's how solid I feel with it. Sometimes I even complete Locket before buying boots. It's key to know when to pick up that Cloth Armor though. What's more interesting for Supports is that I'm interested in finding a way to work in eleisa's miracle into a Support champion. That passive/absorb sounds so interesting... Edit: About Soraka, stop playing her as a healbot. I avoid maxing W nowadays. Get E to about level 3 for so for good poke and silence duration the max StarCall first. I actually run Heal as one of her Summoners to compensate for the low level W. She's also my candidate for working in Miracle. No offense, but that sounds terrible. Maxing Q will mean that you will push the lane unnecessary, i think that's the main reason why nobody ever did it on support soraka back in the day when she was considered strong. Sure it's a good mpen shred that stacks, but before you even get to the point where it actually shreds alot (around 4-5 stacks) you have fucked up the entire creep-wave for your ad. I don't see why you wouldn't max W, it's like the main-tool for actually playing soraka. You use your heal whenever the enemy either tries to trade with you or the adc) or when they engage on you. You want to stay in the background as much as possible and let your ad carry do most of the work, otherwise you're better off playing someone who can pressure with poke like lulu. You don't play soraka for being dominating in lane, you play her, because she is one of the best supports in team fights. Except in a lot of cases these days, at least in the competitive environment, pushing the lane is exactly what you want to do. One level of heal for the armor, then just spam q to get the enemy tower down faster so you can swap back super quick. Pushing Lane is okay. Stealing cs is not okay. Losing timing for CS because of badly timed starcall is not okay. With how cost efficient it is to have tons of wards these days pushing the lane isn't nearly as much of an issue because avoiding the gank should be fairly easy.
I don't disagree. Did I or you miss something? As I said, pushing lane isn't the problem. The problem is with starving your own lanemate for CS, and causing other CS issues due to starcall/fall/whateveryouwannacallits
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I was using Raka as an example of a bad support. Okay maybe not bad, but one that just isn't fun to play generally speaking. I'm really enjoying the heal+ barrier combo on her though, its so ridiculous-- almost good as Lulu at keeping an AD alive.
Raka almost feels like a lategame champ b/c of the massive damage/shred that starcall can do with AP, and her heals which makes the target an on-demand tank. However, its really hard to justify playing a support for lategame like that. I guess running a lategame bot lane with some kind of stall-3 comp might work though... hmm.
I think one of the problems for support is that if you get ahead or go even its alright and a lot of fun, but if your lane loses of you end up underleveled/ underfarmed for one reason or another and you end up with like a 35 minute Aegis or something stupid like that. Everyone, even the tank, has some kind of creep killing/ damage ability, but you're kind of stuck. Anyone who is behind can potentially AFK farm for awhile or score a couple lucky kills or shutdowns and be back. All you can really do is stick together and hopefully pick up more assists than deaths in teamfights.
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United States23745 Posts
On February 20 2013 02:44 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 02:39 onlywonderboy wrote:On February 20 2013 02:37 ketchup wrote:On February 20 2013 02:36 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 20 2013 02:19 Sponkz wrote:On February 20 2013 02:04 NeoIllusions wrote:On February 20 2013 01:59 wussleeQ wrote:
What counters ap trynd? in terms of laning and stopping his split push? I've been playing him a lot lately and once he gets the 39% cdr he's pretty much embarrassingly broken. If this is ranked, AP Teemo with Morello's is a hard counter. I do have a feeling that Riot will do something about AP Trynd by next month. As for Supports, like I've said before, I've entirely abandoned GP items since the start of Season 3. Open Flask and 2 Wards. First item is always Sightstone, followed up by Locket. I don't think I've deviated from that build at all, it's how solid I feel with it. Sometimes I even complete Locket before buying boots. It's key to know when to pick up that Cloth Armor though. What's more interesting for Supports is that I'm interested in finding a way to work in eleisa's miracle into a Support champion. That passive/absorb sounds so interesting... Edit: About Soraka, stop playing her as a healbot. I avoid maxing W nowadays. Get E to about level 3 for so for good poke and silence duration the max StarCall first. I actually run Heal as one of her Summoners to compensate for the low level W. She's also my candidate for working in Miracle. No offense, but that sounds terrible. Maxing Q will mean that you will push the lane unnecessary, i think that's the main reason why nobody ever did it on support soraka back in the day when she was considered strong. Sure it's a good mpen shred that stacks, but before you even get to the point where it actually shreds alot (around 4-5 stacks) you have fucked up the entire creep-wave for your ad. I don't see why you wouldn't max W, it's like the main-tool for actually playing soraka. You use your heal whenever the enemy either tries to trade with you or the adc) or when they engage on you. You want to stay in the background as much as possible and let your ad carry do most of the work, otherwise you're better off playing someone who can pressure with poke like lulu. You don't play soraka for being dominating in lane, you play her, because she is one of the best supports in team fights. Except in a lot of cases these days, at least in the competitive environment, pushing the lane is exactly what you want to do. One level of heal for the armor, then just spam q to get the enemy tower down faster so you can swap back super quick. Pushing Lane is okay. Stealing cs is not okay. Losing timing for CS because of badly timed starcall is not okay. With how cost efficient it is to have tons of wards these days pushing the lane isn't nearly as much of an issue because avoiding the gank should be fairly easy. I don't disagree. Did I or you miss something? As I said, pushing lane isn't the problem. The problem is with starving your own lanemate for CS, and causing other CS issues due to starcall/fall/whateveryouwannacallits
Just agreeing and further expanding on your point.
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On February 20 2013 02:57 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 02:44 ketchup wrote:On February 20 2013 02:39 onlywonderboy wrote:On February 20 2013 02:37 ketchup wrote:On February 20 2013 02:36 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 20 2013 02:19 Sponkz wrote:On February 20 2013 02:04 NeoIllusions wrote:On February 20 2013 01:59 wussleeQ wrote:
What counters ap trynd? in terms of laning and stopping his split push? I've been playing him a lot lately and once he gets the 39% cdr he's pretty much embarrassingly broken. If this is ranked, AP Teemo with Morello's is a hard counter. I do have a feeling that Riot will do something about AP Trynd by next month. As for Supports, like I've said before, I've entirely abandoned GP items since the start of Season 3. Open Flask and 2 Wards. First item is always Sightstone, followed up by Locket. I don't think I've deviated from that build at all, it's how solid I feel with it. Sometimes I even complete Locket before buying boots. It's key to know when to pick up that Cloth Armor though. What's more interesting for Supports is that I'm interested in finding a way to work in eleisa's miracle into a Support champion. That passive/absorb sounds so interesting... Edit: About Soraka, stop playing her as a healbot. I avoid maxing W nowadays. Get E to about level 3 for so for good poke and silence duration the max StarCall first. I actually run Heal as one of her Summoners to compensate for the low level W. She's also my candidate for working in Miracle. No offense, but that sounds terrible. Maxing Q will mean that you will push the lane unnecessary, i think that's the main reason why nobody ever did it on support soraka back in the day when she was considered strong. Sure it's a good mpen shred that stacks, but before you even get to the point where it actually shreds alot (around 4-5 stacks) you have fucked up the entire creep-wave for your ad. I don't see why you wouldn't max W, it's like the main-tool for actually playing soraka. You use your heal whenever the enemy either tries to trade with you or the adc) or when they engage on you. You want to stay in the background as much as possible and let your ad carry do most of the work, otherwise you're better off playing someone who can pressure with poke like lulu. You don't play soraka for being dominating in lane, you play her, because she is one of the best supports in team fights. Except in a lot of cases these days, at least in the competitive environment, pushing the lane is exactly what you want to do. One level of heal for the armor, then just spam q to get the enemy tower down faster so you can swap back super quick. Pushing Lane is okay. Stealing cs is not okay. Losing timing for CS because of badly timed starcall is not okay. With how cost efficient it is to have tons of wards these days pushing the lane isn't nearly as much of an issue because avoiding the gank should be fairly easy. I don't disagree. Did I or you miss something? As I said, pushing lane isn't the problem. The problem is with starving your own lanemate for CS, and causing other CS issues due to starcall/fall/whateveryouwannacallits Just agreeing and further expanding on your point.
Okay, I missed it then! My fault~
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On February 20 2013 02:03 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 01:32 NeoIllusions wrote:
In solo q especially. I don't think Vi has really had the opportunity to shine yet at the competitive level. Seeing all the Vis at NA LCS last week, they were botched with mistakes and misplays. Yet, she's a very common ban in ranked atm.
No surprise that Junglers are turning to Voli as a test now. If anything, more credit to Gambit for continuously impacting how the LoL community plays this game. I just wanna point out I was all over the Junglebur 9 months ago. Justsayin~
Jungle Volibear was meh 9-12 months ago. He was briefly good before they nerfed his NOM, but after that he simply struggled in the AoE-centric jungle. He was workable, but he wasn't anything special. The only reason he's good now is because itemization, jungle health redistribution, and recent buffs have all combined to help him immensely.
At this point any hipster Season 2 opinions are only relevant if they were vindicated in Season 2. You'll have to make new calls for hipster cred.
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On February 20 2013 02:37 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 02:36 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 20 2013 02:19 Sponkz wrote:On February 20 2013 02:04 NeoIllusions wrote:On February 20 2013 01:59 wussleeQ wrote:
What counters ap trynd? in terms of laning and stopping his split push? I've been playing him a lot lately and once he gets the 39% cdr he's pretty much embarrassingly broken. If this is ranked, AP Teemo with Morello's is a hard counter. I do have a feeling that Riot will do something about AP Trynd by next month. As for Supports, like I've said before, I've entirely abandoned GP items since the start of Season 3. Open Flask and 2 Wards. First item is always Sightstone, followed up by Locket. I don't think I've deviated from that build at all, it's how solid I feel with it. Sometimes I even complete Locket before buying boots. It's key to know when to pick up that Cloth Armor though. What's more interesting for Supports is that I'm interested in finding a way to work in eleisa's miracle into a Support champion. That passive/absorb sounds so interesting... Edit: About Soraka, stop playing her as a healbot. I avoid maxing W nowadays. Get E to about level 3 for so for good poke and silence duration the max StarCall first. I actually run Heal as one of her Summoners to compensate for the low level W. She's also my candidate for working in Miracle. No offense, but that sounds terrible. Maxing Q will mean that you will push the lane unnecessary, i think that's the main reason why nobody ever did it on support soraka back in the day when she was considered strong. Sure it's a good mpen shred that stacks, but before you even get to the point where it actually shreds alot (around 4-5 stacks) you have fucked up the entire creep-wave for your ad. I don't see why you wouldn't max W, it's like the main-tool for actually playing soraka. You use your heal whenever the enemy either tries to trade with you or the adc) or when they engage on you. You want to stay in the background as much as possible and let your ad carry do most of the work, otherwise you're better off playing someone who can pressure with poke like lulu. You don't play soraka for being dominating in lane, you play her, because she is one of the best supports in team fights. Except in a lot of cases these days, at least in the competitive environment, pushing the lane is exactly what you want to do. One level of heal for the armor, then just spam q to get the enemy tower down faster so you can swap back super quick. Pushing Lane is okay. Stealing cs is not okay. Losing timing for CS because of badly timed starcall is not okay.
2-3 starcalls at the start of a wave wont steal anything, just weaken the wave. It might take some practice, but it wouldnt be detrimental with practice.
No way a pro bot lane couldnt work together to make it happen.
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On February 20 2013 02:59 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 02:03 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 20 2013 01:32 NeoIllusions wrote:
In solo q especially. I don't think Vi has really had the opportunity to shine yet at the competitive level. Seeing all the Vis at NA LCS last week, they were botched with mistakes and misplays. Yet, she's a very common ban in ranked atm.
No surprise that Junglers are turning to Voli as a test now. If anything, more credit to Gambit for continuously impacting how the LoL community plays this game. I just wanna point out I was all over the Junglebur 9 months ago. Justsayin~ Jungle Volibear was meh 9-12 months ago. He was briefly good before they nerfed his NOM, but after that he simply struggled in the AoE-centric jungle. He was workable, but he wasn't anything special. The only reason he's good now is because itemization, jungle health redistribution, and recent buffs have all combined to help him immensely. At this point any hipster Season 2 opinions are only relevant if they were vindicated in Season 2. You'll have to make new calls for hipster cred.
You still need to max E on jungebur, which was actually faster s2 than it is now. If anything the changes to the jungle hurt him.
As for items, im not sure there is any item that helps him MORE than the changes helped any other jungler. Locket isnt better on him that it is on anyone.
As for buffs: he hasnt been meaningfully touched since the Sej patch apart from a .023 base aspeed buff last patch. Hardly large.
Realistically, it just took this long for people to figure out that repositionings out of the jungle are just that good.
So ya. I get that there were changes. But you cant just point to global changes and say Im wrong without actually pointing out how any of them help your point, especially when a lot of them dont.
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So with the buffs to BotRK does hurricane make sense on anybody yet?
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On February 20 2013 02:59 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 02:03 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 20 2013 01:32 NeoIllusions wrote:
In solo q especially. I don't think Vi has really had the opportunity to shine yet at the competitive level. Seeing all the Vis at NA LCS last week, they were botched with mistakes and misplays. Yet, she's a very common ban in ranked atm.
No surprise that Junglers are turning to Voli as a test now. If anything, more credit to Gambit for continuously impacting how the LoL community plays this game. I just wanna point out I was all over the Junglebur 9 months ago. Justsayin~ Jungle Volibear was meh 9-12 months ago. He was briefly good before they nerfed his NOM, but after that he simply struggled in the AoE-centric jungle. He was workable, but he wasn't anything special. The only reason he's good now is because itemization, jungle health redistribution, and recent buffs have all combined to help him immensely. At this point any hipster Season 2 opinions are only relevant if they were vindicated in Season 2. You'll have to make new calls for hipster cred.
What makes him good besides the new itemizeation are his ganks. fling+ms is just a really awesome gank tool if not one of the best out there. singed doesn't have the added ms early on. stuns/slows/knockups aren't as great as a fling.
also its super reliable to initiate a gank with volis q because it doesn't depend on anything but you closing in. there are only a few situation where your opponent can juke you i found.
I mean how many really good gank junglers are there who don't have awkward itemization or shitty buffcontrol/clearing?
xin, mao. who else? shaco snowbally and hard to build. lee has become similar, he fell off hard anyway now he doesn't have his tank steroid anymore. Then who does really gank reliably like xin mao and voli?
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Leona best support if you're looking for a fun to play support.
Getting your combo on the ennemy ADC and watch him blow up to yours is just so great, and her ult ...
Leona is a really easy champ to make the plays with, flash ult so guuuud, get that 4 man slow for a perfect engage
Leona is like sona, but much more interesting before 6 and when her ult isn't up she still has a good engage, although I love sona and consider her probably my 3rd support in the fun ranking ( Leona, Blitz, Sona ) although I never touched alistar
Edit : Her ult is kinda like sona's one when it comes down to fun and how you can make da plays with it, she obviously is completely different than sona lol
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I'm buying more and more pink wards as support bot. Always starting 2 pinks + combination of ward(s) and pots. Being as annoying as possible for the enemy is a lovely feeling. It usually turns into purple wars which is really fun with /all skills.
Hue
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On February 20 2013 03:11 clickrush wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 02:59 Seuss wrote:On February 20 2013 02:03 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 20 2013 01:32 NeoIllusions wrote:
In solo q especially. I don't think Vi has really had the opportunity to shine yet at the competitive level. Seeing all the Vis at NA LCS last week, they were botched with mistakes and misplays. Yet, she's a very common ban in ranked atm.
No surprise that Junglers are turning to Voli as a test now. If anything, more credit to Gambit for continuously impacting how the LoL community plays this game. I just wanna point out I was all over the Junglebur 9 months ago. Justsayin~ Jungle Volibear was meh 9-12 months ago. He was briefly good before they nerfed his NOM, but after that he simply struggled in the AoE-centric jungle. He was workable, but he wasn't anything special. The only reason he's good now is because itemization, jungle health redistribution, and recent buffs have all combined to help him immensely. At this point any hipster Season 2 opinions are only relevant if they were vindicated in Season 2. You'll have to make new calls for hipster cred. What makes him good besides the new itemizeation are his ganks. fling+ms is just a really awesome gank tool if not one of the best out there. singed doesn't have the added ms early on. stuns/slows/knockups aren't as great as a fling. also its super reliable to initiate a gank with volis q because it doesn't depend on anything but you closing in. there are only a few situation where your opponent can juke you i found. I mean how many really good gank junglers are there who don't have awkward itemization or shitty buffcontrol/clearing? xin, mao. who else? shaco snowbally and hard to build. lee has become similar, he fell off hard anyway now he doesn't have his tank steroid anymore. Then who does really gank reliably like xin mao and voli?
Noc, J4, Khaz, Diana, Skarner gank well and don't rely as much on bluebuff as Mao.
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On February 20 2013 03:02 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 02:59 Seuss wrote:On February 20 2013 02:03 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 20 2013 01:32 NeoIllusions wrote:
In solo q especially. I don't think Vi has really had the opportunity to shine yet at the competitive level. Seeing all the Vis at NA LCS last week, they were botched with mistakes and misplays. Yet, she's a very common ban in ranked atm.
No surprise that Junglers are turning to Voli as a test now. If anything, more credit to Gambit for continuously impacting how the LoL community plays this game. I just wanna point out I was all over the Junglebur 9 months ago. Justsayin~ Jungle Volibear was meh 9-12 months ago. He was briefly good before they nerfed his NOM, but after that he simply struggled in the AoE-centric jungle. He was workable, but he wasn't anything special. The only reason he's good now is because itemization, jungle health redistribution, and recent buffs have all combined to help him immensely. At this point any hipster Season 2 opinions are only relevant if they were vindicated in Season 2. You'll have to make new calls for hipster cred. You still need to max E on jungebur, which was actually faster s2 than it is now. If anything the changes to the jungle hurt him. As for items, im not sure there is any item that helps him MORE than the changes helped any other jungler. Locket isnt better on him that it is on anyone. Realistically, it just took this long for people to figure out that repositionings out of the jungle are just that good.
Cheaper Madred's and/or Tenacity from Ancient Golem, revamped Swifties, the focus on health itemization over resistances, new Spirit Visage etc. all helped him immensely. Other junglers got helped as well, but Volibear is definitely significantly better off now than he was before.
At the time you were expounding about Volibear everyone was well aware that repositioning abilities were good in the jungle thanks to Nautilus. Realistically Volibear wasn't that great in Season 2, and it's only the Season 3 upheaval which has made him good.
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On February 20 2013 03:01 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 02:37 ketchup wrote:On February 20 2013 02:36 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 20 2013 02:19 Sponkz wrote:On February 20 2013 02:04 NeoIllusions wrote:On February 20 2013 01:59 wussleeQ wrote:
What counters ap trynd? in terms of laning and stopping his split push? I've been playing him a lot lately and once he gets the 39% cdr he's pretty much embarrassingly broken. If this is ranked, AP Teemo with Morello's is a hard counter. I do have a feeling that Riot will do something about AP Trynd by next month. As for Supports, like I've said before, I've entirely abandoned GP items since the start of Season 3. Open Flask and 2 Wards. First item is always Sightstone, followed up by Locket. I don't think I've deviated from that build at all, it's how solid I feel with it. Sometimes I even complete Locket before buying boots. It's key to know when to pick up that Cloth Armor though. What's more interesting for Supports is that I'm interested in finding a way to work in eleisa's miracle into a Support champion. That passive/absorb sounds so interesting... Edit: About Soraka, stop playing her as a healbot. I avoid maxing W nowadays. Get E to about level 3 for so for good poke and silence duration the max StarCall first. I actually run Heal as one of her Summoners to compensate for the low level W. She's also my candidate for working in Miracle. No offense, but that sounds terrible. Maxing Q will mean that you will push the lane unnecessary, i think that's the main reason why nobody ever did it on support soraka back in the day when she was considered strong. Sure it's a good mpen shred that stacks, but before you even get to the point where it actually shreds alot (around 4-5 stacks) you have fucked up the entire creep-wave for your ad. I don't see why you wouldn't max W, it's like the main-tool for actually playing soraka. You use your heal whenever the enemy either tries to trade with you or the adc) or when they engage on you. You want to stay in the background as much as possible and let your ad carry do most of the work, otherwise you're better off playing someone who can pressure with poke like lulu. You don't play soraka for being dominating in lane, you play her, because she is one of the best supports in team fights. Except in a lot of cases these days, at least in the competitive environment, pushing the lane is exactly what you want to do. One level of heal for the armor, then just spam q to get the enemy tower down faster so you can swap back super quick. Pushing Lane is okay. Stealing cs is not okay. Losing timing for CS because of badly timed starcall is not okay. 2-3 starcalls at the start of a wave wont steal anything, just weaken the wave. It might take some practice, but it wouldnt be detrimental with practice. No way a pro bot lane couldnt work together to make it happen.
I still dont get the purpose. Why would you max something that you spam 2-3 times on a wave? I assume you are refering to lane-swapping, but what will happen when the soraka goes back to bot at lvl 4-5, has a lvl 1 heal on a large CD and a spell that is extremely hard to apply in lane, which eventually will force the creep-wave towards the enemy turret, and all you got to do to defend yourself is what? A aoe-mpen shred, a heal that provides you with 70 heal+25 armor for 3 sec, and silence (silence can be very big if you use it properly). I feel you will be too vurnerable.
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On February 20 2013 03:16 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 03:11 clickrush wrote:On February 20 2013 02:59 Seuss wrote:On February 20 2013 02:03 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 20 2013 01:32 NeoIllusions wrote:
In solo q especially. I don't think Vi has really had the opportunity to shine yet at the competitive level. Seeing all the Vis at NA LCS last week, they were botched with mistakes and misplays. Yet, she's a very common ban in ranked atm.
No surprise that Junglers are turning to Voli as a test now. If anything, more credit to Gambit for continuously impacting how the LoL community plays this game. I just wanna point out I was all over the Junglebur 9 months ago. Justsayin~ Jungle Volibear was meh 9-12 months ago. He was briefly good before they nerfed his NOM, but after that he simply struggled in the AoE-centric jungle. He was workable, but he wasn't anything special. The only reason he's good now is because itemization, jungle health redistribution, and recent buffs have all combined to help him immensely. At this point any hipster Season 2 opinions are only relevant if they were vindicated in Season 2. You'll have to make new calls for hipster cred. What makes him good besides the new itemizeation are his ganks. fling+ms is just a really awesome gank tool if not one of the best out there. singed doesn't have the added ms early on. stuns/slows/knockups aren't as great as a fling. also its super reliable to initiate a gank with volis q because it doesn't depend on anything but you closing in. there are only a few situation where your opponent can juke you i found. I mean how many really good gank junglers are there who don't have awkward itemization or shitty buffcontrol/clearing? xin, mao. who else? shaco snowbally and hard to build. lee has become similar, he fell off hard anyway now he doesn't have his tank steroid anymore. Then who does really gank reliably like xin mao and voli? Noc, J4, Khaz, Diana, Skarner gank well and don't rely as much on bluebuff as Mao.
Speaking of though, isn't it about time we see Skarner back into play in tournaments? It seems people have forgotten about him.
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On February 20 2013 03:16 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 03:11 clickrush wrote:On February 20 2013 02:59 Seuss wrote:On February 20 2013 02:03 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 20 2013 01:32 NeoIllusions wrote:
In solo q especially. I don't think Vi has really had the opportunity to shine yet at the competitive level. Seeing all the Vis at NA LCS last week, they were botched with mistakes and misplays. Yet, she's a very common ban in ranked atm.
No surprise that Junglers are turning to Voli as a test now. If anything, more credit to Gambit for continuously impacting how the LoL community plays this game. I just wanna point out I was all over the Junglebur 9 months ago. Justsayin~ Jungle Volibear was meh 9-12 months ago. He was briefly good before they nerfed his NOM, but after that he simply struggled in the AoE-centric jungle. He was workable, but he wasn't anything special. The only reason he's good now is because itemization, jungle health redistribution, and recent buffs have all combined to help him immensely. At this point any hipster Season 2 opinions are only relevant if they were vindicated in Season 2. You'll have to make new calls for hipster cred. What makes him good besides the new itemizeation are his ganks. fling+ms is just a really awesome gank tool if not one of the best out there. singed doesn't have the added ms early on. stuns/slows/knockups aren't as great as a fling. also its super reliable to initiate a gank with volis q because it doesn't depend on anything but you closing in. there are only a few situation where your opponent can juke you i found. I mean how many really good gank junglers are there who don't have awkward itemization or shitty buffcontrol/clearing? xin, mao. who else? shaco snowbally and hard to build. lee has become similar, he fell off hard anyway now he doesn't have his tank steroid anymore. Then who does really gank reliably like xin mao and voli? Noc, J4, Khaz, Diana, Skarner gank well and don't rely as much on bluebuff as Mao.
You forgot Vi.
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United States23745 Posts
On February 20 2013 03:21 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 03:16 Crownlol wrote:On February 20 2013 03:11 clickrush wrote:On February 20 2013 02:59 Seuss wrote:On February 20 2013 02:03 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 20 2013 01:32 NeoIllusions wrote:
In solo q especially. I don't think Vi has really had the opportunity to shine yet at the competitive level. Seeing all the Vis at NA LCS last week, they were botched with mistakes and misplays. Yet, she's a very common ban in ranked atm.
No surprise that Junglers are turning to Voli as a test now. If anything, more credit to Gambit for continuously impacting how the LoL community plays this game. I just wanna point out I was all over the Junglebur 9 months ago. Justsayin~ Jungle Volibear was meh 9-12 months ago. He was briefly good before they nerfed his NOM, but after that he simply struggled in the AoE-centric jungle. He was workable, but he wasn't anything special. The only reason he's good now is because itemization, jungle health redistribution, and recent buffs have all combined to help him immensely. At this point any hipster Season 2 opinions are only relevant if they were vindicated in Season 2. You'll have to make new calls for hipster cred. What makes him good besides the new itemizeation are his ganks. fling+ms is just a really awesome gank tool if not one of the best out there. singed doesn't have the added ms early on. stuns/slows/knockups aren't as great as a fling. also its super reliable to initiate a gank with volis q because it doesn't depend on anything but you closing in. there are only a few situation where your opponent can juke you i found. I mean how many really good gank junglers are there who don't have awkward itemization or shitty buffcontrol/clearing? xin, mao. who else? shaco snowbally and hard to build. lee has become similar, he fell off hard anyway now he doesn't have his tank steroid anymore. Then who does really gank reliably like xin mao and voli? Noc, J4, Khaz, Diana, Skarner gank well and don't rely as much on bluebuff as Mao. Speaking of though, isn't it about time we see Skarner back into play in tournaments? It seems people have forgotten about him.
I was under the impression that he's been lack luster for a while now. Ever since they fixed the bug where you could still ult someone after they had flashed away. Not sure what else but I was under the impression the Season 3 changes had a negative impact on him, much like Shyvana.
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On February 20 2013 03:25 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 03:21 ketchup wrote:On February 20 2013 03:16 Crownlol wrote:On February 20 2013 03:11 clickrush wrote:On February 20 2013 02:59 Seuss wrote:On February 20 2013 02:03 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 20 2013 01:32 NeoIllusions wrote:
In solo q especially. I don't think Vi has really had the opportunity to shine yet at the competitive level. Seeing all the Vis at NA LCS last week, they were botched with mistakes and misplays. Yet, she's a very common ban in ranked atm.
No surprise that Junglers are turning to Voli as a test now. If anything, more credit to Gambit for continuously impacting how the LoL community plays this game. I just wanna point out I was all over the Junglebur 9 months ago. Justsayin~ Jungle Volibear was meh 9-12 months ago. He was briefly good before they nerfed his NOM, but after that he simply struggled in the AoE-centric jungle. He was workable, but he wasn't anything special. The only reason he's good now is because itemization, jungle health redistribution, and recent buffs have all combined to help him immensely. At this point any hipster Season 2 opinions are only relevant if they were vindicated in Season 2. You'll have to make new calls for hipster cred. What makes him good besides the new itemizeation are his ganks. fling+ms is just a really awesome gank tool if not one of the best out there. singed doesn't have the added ms early on. stuns/slows/knockups aren't as great as a fling. also its super reliable to initiate a gank with volis q because it doesn't depend on anything but you closing in. there are only a few situation where your opponent can juke you i found. I mean how many really good gank junglers are there who don't have awkward itemization or shitty buffcontrol/clearing? xin, mao. who else? shaco snowbally and hard to build. lee has become similar, he fell off hard anyway now he doesn't have his tank steroid anymore. Then who does really gank reliably like xin mao and voli? Noc, J4, Khaz, Diana, Skarner gank well and don't rely as much on bluebuff as Mao. Speaking of though, isn't it about time we see Skarner back into play in tournaments? It seems people have forgotten about him. I was under the impression that he's been lack luster for a while now. Ever since they fixed the bug where you could still ult someone after they had flashed away. Not sure what else but I was under the impression the Season 3 changes had a negative impact on him, much like Shyvana.
Skarner is really good, but you can't deal with an early gank heavy jungler like Xin. Once you get out Lizard Elder and Iceborn you do a billion damage and slow even more so your ganks are terrifying.
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On February 20 2013 03:25 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 03:21 ketchup wrote:On February 20 2013 03:16 Crownlol wrote:On February 20 2013 03:11 clickrush wrote:On February 20 2013 02:59 Seuss wrote:On February 20 2013 02:03 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 20 2013 01:32 NeoIllusions wrote:
In solo q especially. I don't think Vi has really had the opportunity to shine yet at the competitive level. Seeing all the Vis at NA LCS last week, they were botched with mistakes and misplays. Yet, she's a very common ban in ranked atm.
No surprise that Junglers are turning to Voli as a test now. If anything, more credit to Gambit for continuously impacting how the LoL community plays this game. I just wanna point out I was all over the Junglebur 9 months ago. Justsayin~ Jungle Volibear was meh 9-12 months ago. He was briefly good before they nerfed his NOM, but after that he simply struggled in the AoE-centric jungle. He was workable, but he wasn't anything special. The only reason he's good now is because itemization, jungle health redistribution, and recent buffs have all combined to help him immensely. At this point any hipster Season 2 opinions are only relevant if they were vindicated in Season 2. You'll have to make new calls for hipster cred. What makes him good besides the new itemizeation are his ganks. fling+ms is just a really awesome gank tool if not one of the best out there. singed doesn't have the added ms early on. stuns/slows/knockups aren't as great as a fling. also its super reliable to initiate a gank with volis q because it doesn't depend on anything but you closing in. there are only a few situation where your opponent can juke you i found. I mean how many really good gank junglers are there who don't have awkward itemization or shitty buffcontrol/clearing? xin, mao. who else? shaco snowbally and hard to build. lee has become similar, he fell off hard anyway now he doesn't have his tank steroid anymore. Then who does really gank reliably like xin mao and voli? Noc, J4, Khaz, Diana, Skarner gank well and don't rely as much on bluebuff as Mao. Speaking of though, isn't it about time we see Skarner back into play in tournaments? It seems people have forgotten about him. I was under the impression that he's been lack luster for a while now. Ever since they fixed the bug where you could still ult someone after they had flashed away. Not sure what else but I was under the impression the Season 3 changes had a negative impact on him, much like Shyvana.
Really? His ult still seems really strong. If they were to increase the range by a tiny bit, it might even be considered overboard by people. Is it Mercurial Scimitar which is the case against him?
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Skarner got hurt by itemization and meta changes. Assassins/bruisers don't need you to pull someone to them because they're just going to dive anyway, but I think a double AP / Liandry comp would absolutely love him.
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EPT
