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On February 20 2013 01:32 NeoIllusions wrote:
In solo q especially. I don't think Vi has really had the opportunity to shine yet at the competitive level. Seeing all the Vis at NA LCS last week, they were botched with mistakes and misplays. Yet, she's a very common ban in ranked atm.
No surprise that Junglers are turning to Voli as a test now. If anything, more credit to Gambit for continuously impacting how the LoL community plays this game.
I just wanna point out I was all over the Junglebur 9 months ago.
Justsayin~
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United States23745 Posts
On February 20 2013 01:51 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 01:41 NeoIllusions wrote:On February 20 2013 01:36 Zhiroo wrote:
Is it just me or are the supports in a sorrier state at the moment than they were in Season 2? Not item wise. Just it feels you're so weak... especially with these ultra diving junglers that are popular lately. Who are you talking about specifically? As a role, I think Supports are fine. I agree- with all the high base-damage tanks like Olaf, Rengar, Voli (lol), it feels really weak playing a traditional support. An Olaf or Rengar with 0 damage items really brings a lot to a teamfight- damage, presence, etc. A Soraka is essentially useless out of lane with the current meta. If I have to support, I play Taric or Lulu- at least my stun/ult do something. But really, what does Sona do mid/lategame other than crescendo? How hard would it be for your top or jungler to get an aura item or two, and then you wouldn't need your Runic Bulwark Bot at all. I really enjoy playing a comp that's growing in popularity- AD mid (usually Caitlyn) with double AP bot lane. Both APs get built enough by the midgame, and Ryze/Cass or Morg/Orianna adds far more to a teamfight than having an auraitem bot like most supports.
Yes, she lays down a game changing ult that can turn the tide of a fight. You're not doing a lot moment-to-moment, but the impact a single spell on a Support can have is tremendous. Just the nature of the role. In Season 2 I didn't feel like I had any more impact than I do now, plus now I don't have to stack GP10s to feel useful. I agree Soraka isn't great atm though.
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United States37500 Posts
On February 20 2013 01:59 wussleeQ wrote:
What counters ap trynd? in terms of laning and stopping his split push? I've been playing him a lot lately and once he gets the 39% cdr he's pretty much embarrassingly broken.
If this is ranked, AP Teemo with Morello's is a hard counter. I do have a feeling that Riot will do something about AP Trynd by next month.
As for Supports, like I've said before, I've entirely abandoned GP items since the start of Season 3. Open Flask and 2 Wards. First item is always Sightstone, followed up by Locket. I don't think I've deviated from that build at all, it's how solid I feel with it. Sometimes I even complete Locket before buying boots. It's key to know when to pick up that Cloth Armor though.
What's more interesting for Supports is that I'm interested in finding a way to work in eleisa's miracle into a Support champion. That passive/absorb sounds so interesting...
Edit: About Soraka, stop playing her as a healbot. I avoid maxing W nowadays. Get E to about level 3 for so for good poke and silence duration the max StarCall first. I actually run Heal as one of her Summoners to compensate for the low level W. She's also my candidate for working in Miracle.
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Pretty sure Exhaust still makes Trynd players feel really bad.
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I don't know the last time I've seen a Raka.
There's some neat tricks with healbaiting you can do, but generally only time I play her is in a Raka/Sivir bully lane. She's just so boring-- you keep your AD at high hp/mana, ult to save/get assists and play passive till really late or you win.lose.
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Well, if you're complaining that supports don't feel like they do very much and your example is Soraka... all I can really say is try out other supports. She's the poster child of passive support play. Even as Sivir/Raka or Graves/Raka, which are potentially strong lanes, the soraka player doesn't really ... DO... very much.
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On February 20 2013 02:04 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 01:59 wussleeQ wrote:
What counters ap trynd? in terms of laning and stopping his split push? I've been playing him a lot lately and once he gets the 39% cdr he's pretty much embarrassingly broken. If this is ranked, AP Teemo with Morello's is a hard counter. I do have a feeling that Riot will do something about AP Trynd by next month. As for Supports, like I've said before, I've entirely abandoned GP items since the start of Season 3. Open Flask and 2 Wards. First item is always Sightstone, followed up by Locket. I don't think I've deviated from that build at all, it's how solid I feel with it. Sometimes I even complete Locket before buying boots. It's key to know when to pick up that Cloth Armor though. What's more interesting for Supports is that I'm interested in finding a way to work in eleisa's miracle into a Support champion. That passive/absorb sounds so interesting... Edit: About Soraka, stop playing her as a healbot. I avoid maxing W nowadays. Get E to about level 3 for so for good poke and silence duration the max StarCall first. I actually run Heal as one of her Summoners to compensate for the low level W. She's also my candidate for working in Miracle.
No offense, but that sounds terrible. Maxing Q will mean that you will push the lane unnecessary, i think that's the main reason why nobody ever did it on support soraka back in the day when she was considered strong. Sure it's a good mpen shred that stacks, but before you even get to the point where it actually shreds alot (around 4-5 stacks) you have fucked up the entire creep-wave for your ad.
I don't see why you wouldn't max W, it's like the main-tool for actually playing soraka. You use your heal whenever the enemy either tries to trade with you or the adc) or when they engage on you. You want to stay in the background as much as possible and let your ad carry do most of the work, otherwise you're better off playing someone who can pressure with poke like lulu. You don't play soraka for being dominating in lane, you play her, because she is one of the best supports in team fights.
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On February 20 2013 02:04 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 01:59 wussleeQ wrote:
What counters ap trynd? in terms of laning and stopping his split push? I've been playing him a lot lately and once he gets the 39% cdr he's pretty much embarrassingly broken. If this is ranked, AP Teemo with Morello's is a hard counter. I do have a feeling that Riot will do something about AP Trynd by next month. As for Supports, like I've said before, I've entirely abandoned GP items since the start of Season 3. Open Flask and 2 Wards. First item is always Sightstone, followed up by Locket. I don't think I've deviated from that build at all, it's how solid I feel with it. Sometimes I even complete Locket before buying boots. It's key to know when to pick up that Cloth Armor though. What's more interesting for Supports is that I'm interested in finding a way to work in eleisa's miracle into a Support champion. That passive/absorb sounds so interesting... Edit: About Soraka, stop playing her as a healbot. I avoid maxing W nowadays. Get E to about level 3 for so for good poke and silence duration the max StarCall first. I actually run Heal as one of her Summoners to compensate for the low level W. She's also my candidate for working in Miracle.
Real? Isn't it better to just max Starcall, then? Like, I don't think the increase in E damage isn't that big, why get more points in it than 1 at all? I haven't tested this, though
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Just because she is good in team fights does that mean you can't not dominate the lane? That seems like silly logic to me.
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When you max starcall you also make the adc cry because of all the cs he will miss.You have no clue how annoying it is lol.
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On February 20 2013 01:59 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 01:41 NeoIllusions wrote:On February 20 2013 01:36 Zhiroo wrote:
Is it just me or are the supports in a sorrier state at the moment than they were in Season 2? Not item wise. Just it feels you're so weak... especially with these ultra diving junglers that are popular lately. Who are you talking about specifically? As a role, I think Supports are fine. If you feel weak, the reason is probably that you build Philo + Kages. At least that has been my experience. If you build real items and just completely ignore that gp10 shit (except for sightstone), you don't feel weak. You will still lose most 1v1s after the starting phase is over, but you are the support afterall, and pretty much everyone on the field has at least 50% more gold in items then you do. And you still usually don't just fall over when someone looks at you. Just make sure to play something flashy with CC and skillshots. Otherwise supp is pretty boring, and you don't really get to do cool stuff. It also makes you less easily predictible. If you dive a soraka, you know that she will heal once and silence you, both of which is not really scary. If you dive taric, he stuns you once, which you can usually predict and not die. But if you dive thresh, so much can go wrong and suddenly you are dead because he has so much cool stuff he can do. Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 01:51 Crownlol wrote:On February 20 2013 01:41 NeoIllusions wrote:On February 20 2013 01:36 Zhiroo wrote:
Is it just me or are the supports in a sorrier state at the moment than they were in Season 2? Not item wise. Just it feels you're so weak... especially with these ultra diving junglers that are popular lately. Who are you talking about specifically? As a role, I think Supports are fine. I agree- with all the high base-damage tanks like Olaf, Rengar, Voli (lol), it feels really weak playing a traditional support. An Olaf or Rengar with 0 damage items really brings a lot to a teamfight- damage, presence, etc. A Soraka is essentially useless out of lane with the current meta. If I have to support, I play Taric or Lulu- at least my stun/ult do something. But really, what does Sona do mid/lategame other than crescendo? How hard would it be for your top or jungler to get an aura item or two, and then you wouldn't need your Runic Bulwark Bot at all. I really enjoy playing a comp that's growing in popularity- AD mid (usually Caitlyn) with double AP bot lane. Both APs get built enough by the midgame, and Ryze/Cass or Morg/Orianna adds far more to a teamfight than having an auraitem bot like most supports. This is just weird. The whole point of a support is that they work good with no money. Two half-farmed APs are not as good as one farmed guy and a support. You just need to play the right supports. Your job is not to look pretty and hold an aura item in your hand, your job is to be as useful as possible without money. Ryze without money is worthless. Leona is still incredibly scary.
I build the pick items maybe 10% of the time (only when our lane is very fed). My first item is usually Emblem(which I turn into Aegis later) and I'm rushing Solari after Sightstone. My current problem is the ability of some junglers to totally ignore me and instagib my AD carry and then finish me for desert thus making me feel useless.
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On February 20 2013 02:22 Numy wrote:
Just because she is good in team fights does that mean you can't not dominate the lane? That seems like silly logic to me.
How are you gonna dominate a lane with a champion, that's considered strong for her mana replenishment, her heal and global heal? By dominating i'm more so referring to outright stomp the lane, as you can with someone like Blitzcrank. At best, your focus should being to get through lane safely, get lvls, be equal or slighty ahead in cs. The only chance you would get kills as soraka/ad is by the assistance of a jungler and/or mid.
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Just play Leona. "Why am I under that turret? My, not because I'm scared of you, of course. It's just to lull you into a false sense of superiority and smash you with that shield of mine once you get cocky (and closer)."
I dunno about Vi's damage, since I play her super tanky, but as long as I'm scary enough that a squishy can't fight me reliably and I die 1v3 while the rest of my team wins their 4v2 I consider my job done. Her kit's better for skirmishes and drawn-out, scattered fights than full-on 5v5s anyway.
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On February 20 2013 02:04 NeoIllusions wrote:
Edit: About Soraka, stop playing her as a healbot. I avoid maxing W nowadays. Get E to about level 3 for so for good poke and silence duration the max StarCall first. I actually run Heal as one of her Summoners to compensate for the low level W. She's also my candidate for working in Miracle.
I agree E has been the way to go for a while, but you won't be able to pull off as much as you can with any other supports. She's made to be a pure babysit support, but Riot nerfed her skillset due to her huge popularity boost to dissaude people from that playstyle. They didn't do enough to counteract those nerfs though(they buffed her starcall to make her more "battlecaster")
There's a few other issues there as well though. Starcall animation is really really terrible. Spamming starcall is worse than spamming E, so wasting mana is a huge problem with it. That is, If I want to help my team live, I cannot do it spamming starcall. E's silence is so nice, but the cooldown is hugely painful. She has a few mana issues with the starcall path since they nerfed her E. I don't feel she has the early game itemization to keep up with the higher utilization supports such as Lulu/Janna as well as they can do more without these AP items. Soroka's strength(which is definitely nice) is pretty centric to getting a bit more AP in her. Overall, I see very little reason to pick Soraka aside from some specialized AND organized team comps. Solo queue sadness.
This is also why it's A LOT more interesting to play Soroka in AROM. Can build AP items which boosts her strength by far.
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On February 20 2013 01:22 Gorsameth wrote:
Its funny how last week Gambit Gaming used Volibear in the LCS and last night i tune in to Saint to watch him do scrims with volibear and now Snoopy is running him in soloQ.
Good old LoL scene copying everything they see :p
I've seen saint play Volibear in a few scrims like 2 weeks ago
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On February 20 2013 02:00 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 01:36 Zhiroo wrote:
Is it just me or are the supports in a sorrier state at the moment than they were in Season 2? Not item wise. Just it feels you're so weak... especially with these ultra diving junglers that are popular lately. I dunno, whenever I play Lulu (I haven't been playing other supports recently - I don't main the role) I feel like I am SO GOOD at stopping all kinds of ultra-diving assassins and stuff. Also, it's easier to just build a pile of ruby crystals into a useful arsenal. It's not just about itemization, supports just feel better in general right now.
I think, my problem at least with supports, is not that the role itself is a huge problem, its that a large % of the champs feel weak(er). Lulu and Taric feel in a good place right now (Taric is being changed to unforseen consequences). But, for instance, the Bloodboil nerf might have been needed, but why didn't they revert his iceblast nerf to compensate? Nunu isn't very popular anywhere else anymore. Same with Alistar, he can't jungle anymore, so why are mana cost nerfs on his heal and headbutt damage nerf still in place? ETC ETC.
I feel the same as a support as ever, I guess. Need more to do other than ult (for most of them) or need more tankiness to not be killed by AOE damage or an assassin who already blew his wad elsewhere. The rest of the Melle Cast needs to get save Taric needs minor damage/cooldown buffs (for laning mostly, so you can actually go toe-to-toe with a taric lane), and the rest of the ranged cast save Lulu(and probably Zyra) needs survivability/cooldown buffs. We need to increase the Janna Tornadoes/Teamfight ratio.
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United States23745 Posts
On February 20 2013 02:04 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 01:59 wussleeQ wrote:
What counters ap trynd? in terms of laning and stopping his split push? I've been playing him a lot lately and once he gets the 39% cdr he's pretty much embarrassingly broken. Edit: About Soraka, stop playing her as a healbot. I avoid maxing W nowadays. Get E to about level 3 for so for good poke and silence duration the max StarCall first. I actually run Heal as one of her Summoners to compensate for the low level W. She's also my candidate for working in Miracle.
You sure you didn't mean to post that here? huehuehue
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On February 20 2013 02:19 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 02:04 NeoIllusions wrote:On February 20 2013 01:59 wussleeQ wrote:
What counters ap trynd? in terms of laning and stopping his split push? I've been playing him a lot lately and once he gets the 39% cdr he's pretty much embarrassingly broken. If this is ranked, AP Teemo with Morello's is a hard counter. I do have a feeling that Riot will do something about AP Trynd by next month. As for Supports, like I've said before, I've entirely abandoned GP items since the start of Season 3. Open Flask and 2 Wards. First item is always Sightstone, followed up by Locket. I don't think I've deviated from that build at all, it's how solid I feel with it. Sometimes I even complete Locket before buying boots. It's key to know when to pick up that Cloth Armor though. What's more interesting for Supports is that I'm interested in finding a way to work in eleisa's miracle into a Support champion. That passive/absorb sounds so interesting... Edit: About Soraka, stop playing her as a healbot. I avoid maxing W nowadays. Get E to about level 3 for so for good poke and silence duration the max StarCall first. I actually run Heal as one of her Summoners to compensate for the low level W. She's also my candidate for working in Miracle. No offense, but that sounds terrible. Maxing Q will mean that you will push the lane unnecessary, i think that's the main reason why nobody ever did it on support soraka back in the day when she was considered strong. Sure it's a good mpen shred that stacks, but before you even get to the point where it actually shreds alot (around 4-5 stacks) you have fucked up the entire creep-wave for your ad. I don't see why you wouldn't max W, it's like the main-tool for actually playing soraka. You use your heal whenever the enemy either tries to trade with you or the adc) or when they engage on you. You want to stay in the background as much as possible and let your ad carry do most of the work, otherwise you're better off playing someone who can pressure with poke like lulu. You don't play soraka for being dominating in lane, you play her, because she is one of the best supports in team fights.
Except in a lot of cases these days, at least in the competitive environment, pushing the lane is exactly what you want to do. One level of heal for the armor, then just spam q to get the enemy tower down faster so you can swap back super quick.
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On February 20 2013 02:36 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 02:19 Sponkz wrote:On February 20 2013 02:04 NeoIllusions wrote:On February 20 2013 01:59 wussleeQ wrote:
What counters ap trynd? in terms of laning and stopping his split push? I've been playing him a lot lately and once he gets the 39% cdr he's pretty much embarrassingly broken. If this is ranked, AP Teemo with Morello's is a hard counter. I do have a feeling that Riot will do something about AP Trynd by next month. As for Supports, like I've said before, I've entirely abandoned GP items since the start of Season 3. Open Flask and 2 Wards. First item is always Sightstone, followed up by Locket. I don't think I've deviated from that build at all, it's how solid I feel with it. Sometimes I even complete Locket before buying boots. It's key to know when to pick up that Cloth Armor though. What's more interesting for Supports is that I'm interested in finding a way to work in eleisa's miracle into a Support champion. That passive/absorb sounds so interesting... Edit: About Soraka, stop playing her as a healbot. I avoid maxing W nowadays. Get E to about level 3 for so for good poke and silence duration the max StarCall first. I actually run Heal as one of her Summoners to compensate for the low level W. She's also my candidate for working in Miracle. No offense, but that sounds terrible. Maxing Q will mean that you will push the lane unnecessary, i think that's the main reason why nobody ever did it on support soraka back in the day when she was considered strong. Sure it's a good mpen shred that stacks, but before you even get to the point where it actually shreds alot (around 4-5 stacks) you have fucked up the entire creep-wave for your ad. I don't see why you wouldn't max W, it's like the main-tool for actually playing soraka. You use your heal whenever the enemy either tries to trade with you or the adc) or when they engage on you. You want to stay in the background as much as possible and let your ad carry do most of the work, otherwise you're better off playing someone who can pressure with poke like lulu. You don't play soraka for being dominating in lane, you play her, because she is one of the best supports in team fights. Except in a lot of cases these days, at least in the competitive environment, pushing the lane is exactly what you want to do. One level of heal for the armor, then just spam q to get the enemy tower down faster so you can swap back super quick.
Pushing Lane is okay. Stealing cs is not okay. Losing timing for CS because of badly timed starcall is not okay.
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United States23745 Posts
On February 20 2013 02:37 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 02:36 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 20 2013 02:19 Sponkz wrote:On February 20 2013 02:04 NeoIllusions wrote:On February 20 2013 01:59 wussleeQ wrote:
What counters ap trynd? in terms of laning and stopping his split push? I've been playing him a lot lately and once he gets the 39% cdr he's pretty much embarrassingly broken. If this is ranked, AP Teemo with Morello's is a hard counter. I do have a feeling that Riot will do something about AP Trynd by next month. As for Supports, like I've said before, I've entirely abandoned GP items since the start of Season 3. Open Flask and 2 Wards. First item is always Sightstone, followed up by Locket. I don't think I've deviated from that build at all, it's how solid I feel with it. Sometimes I even complete Locket before buying boots. It's key to know when to pick up that Cloth Armor though. What's more interesting for Supports is that I'm interested in finding a way to work in eleisa's miracle into a Support champion. That passive/absorb sounds so interesting... Edit: About Soraka, stop playing her as a healbot. I avoid maxing W nowadays. Get E to about level 3 for so for good poke and silence duration the max StarCall first. I actually run Heal as one of her Summoners to compensate for the low level W. She's also my candidate for working in Miracle. No offense, but that sounds terrible. Maxing Q will mean that you will push the lane unnecessary, i think that's the main reason why nobody ever did it on support soraka back in the day when she was considered strong. Sure it's a good mpen shred that stacks, but before you even get to the point where it actually shreds alot (around 4-5 stacks) you have fucked up the entire creep-wave for your ad. I don't see why you wouldn't max W, it's like the main-tool for actually playing soraka. You use your heal whenever the enemy either tries to trade with you or the adc) or when they engage on you. You want to stay in the background as much as possible and let your ad carry do most of the work, otherwise you're better off playing someone who can pressure with poke like lulu. You don't play soraka for being dominating in lane, you play her, because she is one of the best supports in team fights. Except in a lot of cases these days, at least in the competitive environment, pushing the lane is exactly what you want to do. One level of heal for the armor, then just spam q to get the enemy tower down faster so you can swap back super quick. Pushing Lane is okay. Stealing cs is not okay. Losing timing for CS because of badly timed starcall is not okay.
With how cost efficient it is to have tons of wards these days pushing the lane isn't nearly as much of an issue because avoiding the gank should be fairly easy.
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EPT
