EPT[Patch 3.02: Fake Quinn] General Discussion - Page 46
| Forum Index > LoL General |
|
Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
| ||
|
ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On February 17 2013 09:00 Kontossis wrote: Consistency in my thinking is how often one event compared to others happens. For example, if you have 0% crit chance, you do 100% consistent damage as you can only do damage with your basic hit. If you have 100% crit chance, you do 100% consistent damage because you can only crit. With 30% critical chance, the chance you get with a PD, you can either crit or you do not. Due to probability, you can with 30% crit chance hit a person 10 times and not get a single crit, or you can crit them 5 times in a row and kill them. I can't say how useful max damage per hit is because frankly, I'm not very good at this game, but I would really suggest people that have PBE try out this build before counting it out. Your idea of "consistent damage" is retarded because by your definition crit chance gives you "consistent damage" + "extra damage" It's not like you don't always do AT LEAST your base damage when you autoattack... [edit] unless you have an item that decreases its own dps based on how much life they are missing [/edit] [edit2] why don't we both think about this for a day and come back tomorrow to see if we still have the same thoughts? Maybe I'm missing something and maybe you're missing something, too. [/edit2] | ||
|
Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
| ||
|
Navi
5286 Posts
i should have grinded elo season 2.5 but was too busy g-g-g-g-g | ||
|
zodde
Sweden1908 Posts
On February 17 2013 08:36 wei2coolman wrote: Then that would broken as tits... They're fine the way they are now. I feel liandry's was mostly made just so haunting guise wasn't a dead end; it shouldn't even be made into a cost efficient item imo. (like maw is to hexdrinker). If you want to run a kite comp, play ashe with standard build. If you want to run a kite comp with majority of your team being assassins or dive comp, play ez with IBG. If you want to run a kite comp that does diddly fucking squat, do your build. Also, there's a reason why urgot's lategame is so suspect; it's because he doesn't/can't build like typical ADC. The only reason he works is because he can essentially shutdown enemy ADC with his ulti; survive the swap, and all of a sudden you have an bruiser adc vs no adc. lol, calling someone in GD "closeminded", how long have you even been here? Nice elitist attitude, I've been here for well over a year. If feel someone is being closeminded about something, I have every right to call them out on that. I'm just asking why the hell you have to bash the build before it's even tested? The new BotRK isn't even live... On February 17 2013 08:43 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: What if I've tried out Runaan's Hurricane and BotRK and found out they sucked? Would you still consider me closeminded? [edit] We were literally testing BotRK on ADC in TROLLS last night with Monte. [/edit] No, but I didn't read it like you tested it and it sucked. I read it as you blindly bashed them. Sorry, ignore me. Edit: I haven't tried this build, I'm not saying the build is good. I am saying the idea of the ADC not being a pure single target damage source without utility has some merit. I know that the idea of "pseudo-adcs" or whatever has been discussed in TROLLS, I guess I should write stuff like this there. Edit2: I am also talking about the new BotRK, not the current live version. The PBE BotRK has far better synergy with Runaan's. | ||
|
Dusty
United States3359 Posts
On February 17 2013 09:24 Navi wrote: GOT DEMOTED FROM CHALLENGER LIKE I KNEW I WOULD! i should have grinded elo season 2.5 but was too busy g-g-g-g-g noob | ||
|
Kontossis
Canada256 Posts
On February 17 2013 09:10 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Okay, if we're talking about Vayne, then why are you including "superior life gain" as a stat at all? Vayne's w proc doesn't trigger lifesteal. I'm pretty sure you've just completely lost your argument and unwilling to admit it. I'm also willing to bet that you'd kill someone faster with a BT/zeal/cloak than with BotRK/Hurricane, even if I would upgrade Zeal to Shiv instead of buying cloak. Seriously your last sentence is just dumb, how does life gain affect w at all? I mistyped, but what I wanted to say is that W will proc more often due to higher attack speed, and higher attack speed will in turn increase the life on hit that BOTRK gives. I'm not sure if you know this, but on the PBE, the life on hit from BOTRK is based off 30% of your total AD. Not only is it not affected by resists, but the effect procs off each Runaan bolt. If you want to see what kills faster with BT/Zeal/cloak versus BOTRK/Hurricane, here's some math with Vayne. With BT/Zeal/Cloak/greaves, you have about 205ish AD with a fully stacked BT, 25% chance to crit, 1.1 attack speed. DPS will be 281.875 without counting silver bolts. With BOTRK/Runaan/Greaves, you have 135 AD and 1.7 attack speed. 230 DPS without counting silver bolt and the 5% hp passive. With a 1500 hp target, 357 DPS accounting for the passive. Against a 1500 HP target, silver bolts does 180 true damage. Now, with 1.7 attack speed vs 1.1 attack speed, how much of a difference does that make? 1.7 attack speed gives 102 true damage while 1.1 gives 66. It does do more damage. Period. Edit: And this is purely single target. | ||
|
overt
United States9006 Posts
If we're gonna examine BotRK/Runaan's builds the best champions to do it with would be midgame ADCs like Graves or Corki not late game ADCs who are looking to get a full six items that synergizes well. Doing a BotRK+Runaans build on Vayne would be like building Bruta+Hexdrinker+Phage on Nasus. Sure you might have a window during midgame where you do more dps but that doesn't mean the build is good because you're playing a late game champion and doing a midgame build. | ||
|
Phil4994
United States143 Posts
Since so many people have been warned or banned, nobody talks shit anymore in solo queue. Shit talking is part of the game and it's almost always in good fun. The games are so silent now. | ||
|
barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On February 17 2013 09:55 Phil4994 wrote: Since so many people have been warned or banned, nobody talks shit anymore in solo queue. Shit talking is part of the game and it's almost always in good fun. The games are so silent now. i'm totally ok with that. | ||
|
Purge
Canada372 Posts
Dorans Vamp >IE->PD/Shiv (or BOTK)->LW->BOTK (+boots somewhere), (Tank Item somewhere here) -> BotK fits literally anywhere after like BF because of the new lifesteal passive and the free 40% att speed. Essentially just the traditional build, but without the BT. You forgo the BT to get an item that will give more utilty (in unmitigated 30% LS, active, Attspeed) for the cost of 55 AD. IE will still complement it because the lifesteal% still needs the AD, and you get crit. The you complement with regular build, just that you forgo damage for survivability. Except that you dont forgo damage for survivability because if they have more than 3500 health you are dealing more damage to them than with BT because of the % damage component. Interms of building you have so many midgame items to choose from that you can itemize really well in lane phase (Vamp, BT, Cutlass, Zeal). BT is also 3200 gold vs 2900 gold for BOTK Seems like a closed case to me. The real question is what do you get as endgame defense item. Im starting to feel like Mallet is really good. or if you are super far ahead midgame and want to win harder, Trinity Force. Im not sure about the Runaan's Buy only because the oppurtunity cost of buying it is so high. In a complete 6 item build you are forgoing crit (from PD/Shiv), ms (from PD/Shiv), or damage for it. It needs something that makes it a competitive choice. | ||
|
barbsq
United States5348 Posts
| ||
|
Purge
Canada372 Posts
oh man, purge, if ur gonna shorten botrk to 4 letters, it's gotta be bork, amirite? Is it wrong that I dont get that reference? Also I cant count the number of words in that name GG. Im not going to correct it either, I like the acronym too much. | ||
|
barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On February 17 2013 10:20 Purge wrote: Is it wrong that I dont get that reference? Also I cant count the number of words in that name GG. Im not going to correct it either, I like the acronym too much. it's not really a reference, bork just sounds hilarious when you pronounce it. edit: fuck, is that really my 3k'th post? edit2: dw about the bork thing. I'm really weird when it comes to how things sound when they are pronounced. There are lots of perfectly good words that I absolutely hate to hear when spoken, and some seemingly benign words that are absolutely hilarious to me for no reason in terms of their definition or context. | ||
|
Parnage
United States7414 Posts
On February 17 2013 10:20 Purge wrote: Is it wrong that I dont get that reference? Also I cant count the number of words in that name GG. Im not going to correct it either, I like the acronym too much. It's an old people term. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/borked | ||
|
Kontossis
Canada256 Posts
On February 17 2013 09:48 overt wrote: But you're picking Vayne for late game and come late game a standard IE build is going to outdamage a BotRK build. If we're gonna examine BotRK/Runaan's builds the best champions to do it with would be midgame ADCs like Graves or Corki not late game ADCs who are looking to get a full six items that synergizes well. Doing a BotRK+Runaans build on Vayne would be like building Bruta+Hexdrinker+Phage on Nasus. Sure you might have a window during midgame where you do more dps but that doesn't mean the build is good because you're playing a late game champion and doing a midgame build. I don't doubt that standard IE will damage BotRK build, but lets see how much. Assuming 330 AD, 55% crit, 1.46 attack speed 385 AD with Ult. Standard Build 330*0.55*2.5 + 330*0.45 = 602.25 damage per hit. 879.285 DPS. With ult, 385*0.55*2.5 + 385*0.45 = 702.625 damage per hit. 1025.8325 DPS Assuming 300 AD, 1.86 attack speed. 355 AD with Ult. BotRK build 300 damage per hit without BotRK passive. Against 4000, 3000, 2000, 1000 and 500 hp targets.. 300 + 4000*0.05 = 930 DPS 4000 health 837 DPS 3000 health 744 DPS 2000 health 651 DPS 1000 health 604.5 DPS 500 health With ult: 1032 DPS, 939.3 DPS, 846.3, 753.3, 706.8 DPS for 4000, 3000, 2000, 1000, 500 health targets respectively. Silver bolts will add around 50 true damage DPS to the side of BotRK build due to increased attack speed for targets above 4000 health, 30 true damage DPS at 2000 health and 20 true damage DPS at 1000 health. BotRK+ Runaan build goes from around the same DPS as IE build, at 4000 health targets to around 70ish% DPS when you're about to kill someone. Which is pretty good IMO just accounting for single target. | ||
|
Haasts
New Zealand4445 Posts
Taric Base Damage reduced to 48 from 58. Gemcraft ( Passive ) has been reworked: Now deals bonus magic damage 4% of Taric's Maximum mana as magic damage per hit. Damage doubled against champions. Shatter ( W ) mana cost decreased to 50 at all ranks from 50/60/70/80/90 mana. Dazzle ( E ) mana cost reduced to 75 from 95. Really enjoying this change while mucking around on the PBE as jungle Taric with a Ryze runepage, esp with Shatter having a Ground Slam style armor ratio for damage; was hitting like a truck with a Glacial Shroud. Sadly I couldn't manage to turn Manamune into Muramana before the game ended. | ||
|
Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On February 17 2013 10:22 Parnage wrote: It's an old people term. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/borked It's also something the Swedish Chef on Muppets would say a lot. | ||
|
ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On February 17 2013 09:28 zodde wrote: Nice elitist attitude, I've been here for well over a year. If feel someone is being closeminded about something, I have every right to call them out on that. I'm just asking why the hell you have to bash the build before it's even tested? The new BotRK isn't even live... No, but I didn't read it like you tested it and it sucked. I read it as you blindly bashed them. Sorry, ignore me. Edit: I haven't tried this build, I'm not saying the build is good. I am saying the idea of the ADC not being a pure single target damage source without utility has some merit. I know that the idea of "pseudo-adcs" or whatever has been discussed in TROLLS, I guess I should write stuff like this there. Edit2: I am also talking about the new BotRK, not the current live version. The PBE BotRK has far better synergy with Runaan's. But like... do you see what you're doing? You're assuming people are making some kind of error because they think x is a certain way with no experience and you're doing the reverse of it by assuming y is viable with no experience with it... | ||
|
ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On February 17 2013 09:39 Kontossis wrote: I mistyped, but what I wanted to say is that W will proc more often due to higher attack speed, and higher attack speed will in turn increase the life on hit that BOTRK gives. I'm not sure if you know this, but on the PBE, the life on hit from BOTRK is based off 30% of your total AD. Not only is it not affected by resists, but the effect procs off each Runaan bolt. If you want to see what kills faster with BT/Zeal/cloak versus BOTRK/Hurricane, here's some math with Vayne. With BT/Zeal/Cloak/greaves, you have about 205ish AD with a fully stacked BT, 25% chance to crit, 1.1 attack speed. DPS will be 281.875 without counting silver bolts. With BOTRK/Runaan/Greaves, you have 135 AD and 1.7 attack speed. 230 DPS without counting silver bolt and the 5% hp passive. With a 1500 hp target, 357 DPS accounting for the passive. Against a 1500 HP target, silver bolts does 180 true damage. Now, with 1.7 attack speed vs 1.1 attack speed, how much of a difference does that make? 1.7 attack speed gives 102 true damage while 1.1 gives 66. It does do more damage. Period. Edit: And this is purely single target. Again, I'm going to say that I don't care what BT/Zeal/cloak is because I'm not comparing Vayne's dps in a 2 minute window. I'd either have shiv there instead of cloak/zeal or I'd wait 20 creeps, finish PD, and have a comparison of BotRK + Hurricane + longsword vs BT/PD. Also, are you accounting for crits and the DECREASE in dps that BotRK takes as target HP goes lower? Because as far as i can tell a 30% ad ratio on BotRK is exactly the same as having 30% crit chance except, like you said, it's not distributed evenly. There's always going to be a random factor in there. I'm pretty sure you have to take the tumble damage modifier based on AD as well. Two tumbles in a fight on a single target makes BT stronger. In the shiv situation you'd have to add the shiv proc and I'm pretty damn sure shiv proc would out-dps the BotRK dps Also you're not accounting for MS which is one of Vayne's biggest stats I mean, in a vacuum and given very specific conditions (the point where you have enough for exactly BotRK/Hurricane/Zerks but not BT/fully upgraded PD/Zerks you might be right, but if you're getting hurricane over PD on vayne you're doing it wrong. | ||
| ||
