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[Patch 3.02: Fake Quinn] General Discussion - Page 110

Forum Index > LoL General
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JonGalt
Profile Joined February 2013
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
February 22 2013 11:01 GMT
#2181
Just watched GameCrib episode 1 (I am at an internet cafe. 240p FTW). So awesome!! Can't wait to watch more of these.

Quick Question. If I were to watch ANY game from the EU or NA LCS, which one should I watch?
LiquidLegends StaffWho is Jon Galt?
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 11:23:26
February 22 2013 11:22 GMT
#2182
On February 22 2013 19:11 Capriccioso wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2013 18:37 iCanada wrote:
On February 22 2013 18:15 Gahlo wrote:
On February 22 2013 18:10 iCanada wrote:
On February 22 2013 18:04 Capriccioso wrote:
I don't see broken design in trading low base stats for high scaling ratios. Is it that manaless champions are bad design? Many mana champions don't have relevant mana costs anyway.


It is the manaless shield, the high scaling ratios, mixed with the fact that originally she had strong base stats and boxcar numbers.

With how her kit works now she either too strong, or too weak. No middle ground.

The manaless shield and high ratios regulate her to crappy base stats(they only nerfed hp/5 and move speed) and force her into building in a style unfitting for top lane. She's an assassin masquerading as a fighter.


Well, technically her base stats were low-ish back in the day, but when she was released she definitely had one of the stronger level 1s even. I dunno about now, havn't played top or riven in forever, but not many champs can out trade a level 1 riven, that passive is really strong. Can't even run because of the Q gap closer. I remember dunking Champs like Lee Sin and Olaf level 1. Only two champions I can't remember her just rickrolling level 1 when she was released was Panth and Xin Zhao, and no one played either champion.

In fact, when she was released everyone thought she was supposed to be built tanky, and thought of her as an early game terror like those two champions.

Thats not even really the point though, point is that manaless champions silly, especially getting a free shield on a low cool down. Even more so because of the fact that her mobility and ministun meant she could force trades all day every day; unless she loses trades hard because of the shield she comes out ahead. That, and the fact that her defensive options and offensives options lead to one most cost effective build for all intended playstyles to be the same. Even now in Warmogs heyday and with nerfs to her shield, she gets more eHP in your average teamfight from just straight up buying a BT than buying a warmogs, and she also gets a crazy amount more damage. That is poor design, in my opinion anyway.


Most of this post is false, I will say that level 1 trades don't exist because of minion damage and that it is ludicrous that BT makes you tankier than warmogs.


level 1 trades do exist, but without the minion damage reduction masteries any more, the other guy needs to be out of position to do so safely. Trading doesn't necessarily mean being able to allin the other guy, it could be as simple as Q auto walk away if you can do it for free. BT won't make you tankier than warmogs against burst. But if you can manage to get off 2 shields in a fight, and auto 4 times, it's completely reasonable to expect to gain ~400 health back simply through lifesteal and shielding damage(off the BT AD/LS alone). Add in the fact that dead targets do zero DPS, and BT is better. Especially since once you blow a target up, the value of your shield and lifesteal go up significantly.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
TSBspartacus
Profile Joined October 2011
England1046 Posts
February 22 2013 11:43 GMT
#2183
On February 22 2013 20:01 JonGalt wrote:
Just watched GameCrib episode 1 (I am at an internet cafe. 240p FTW). So awesome!! Can't wait to watch more of these.

Quick Question. If I were to watch ANY game from the EU or NA LCS, which one should I watch?

EG vs SK.Gaming 2nd match. I assume you mean from the ones the entire season so far?
Don_Julio
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
2220 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 12:13:07
February 22 2013 12:12 GMT
#2184
On February 22 2013 20:01 JonGalt wrote:
Just watched GameCrib episode 1 (I am at an internet cafe. 240p FTW). So awesome!! Can't wait to watch more of these.

Quick Question. If I were to watch ANY game from the EU or NA LCS, which one should I watch?



You could check the LR threads in the tourneys section. There's a column with recommended games in it (tl.net users voted on it).
Spoiler free of course
JonGalt
Profile Joined February 2013
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
February 22 2013 12:47 GMT
#2185
Yes I did. And thanks, I forgot about the recommended polls.
LiquidLegends StaffWho is Jon Galt?
Mensol
Profile Joined September 2012
14536 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 13:41:33
February 22 2013 13:40 GMT
#2186
Another ad kennen on garenaTW. TPA vs Saigon jokers www.twitch.tv/garenatw

Jimbzz The Revolutionist
If you don't know what the fuck you are doing, how are your enemies supposed to know what the fuck you are doing. - imaqtpie on NA teams at Worlds.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 13:54:38
February 22 2013 13:50 GMT
#2187
If you has a reddit account, PM me. Just need 1 person to halp me in 5-10 minutes from now.

tyty

Edit: Got a response. Thanks all. No more PMs.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
February 22 2013 14:10 GMT
#2188
[image loading][image loading]


EU LCS Week 2 is live!
For TeamLiquid~

whew...

P.S. ty TheKefka
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
February 22 2013 14:17 GMT
#2189
On February 22 2013 11:56 Sufficiency wrote:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3147880

Why the hell is this dubbed. Worst decision ever.

That ult to dodge Leona's was badass, woah.

On February 22 2013 16:15 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
So hopefully they nerf Vi soon. She literally gets too many free stats. Two auto attack resets, a free shield, free AS steroid, free arp, free %hp damage, and two gap closers. And every one of her skills have ad ratio's. Even xin doesn't have 4 ad ratios. Imagine if xin had 4 ad ratios, or malphite had 4 armor ratios. I'm trying to find a champion with 4 ad ratios, but most champions don't have 4 skills that could get ad ratios. This is the exact same problem diana had. Too many ratios, too many gap closers. (note I finally found a champion with 4 ad ratios, Riven, and everyone knows how they had to nerf her mobility, and it's no where near Vi's).

It's funny, I remember watching smash and he said he was part of the balance team to get her balanced, and then this happens.

Apart from her shield she has no inherent tankiness, so she tends to fall off later, especially if you build her to do damage—while not having an assassin's burst she hurts a lot early on, though, kinda Lee Sin.
She also has less mobility than Riven: she's superior when it comes to gapclosing and crossing walls, but when it comes to moving inside a fight or getting away Riven's mobility's better (her E is stopped by roots to but if she casts Q once she can cast the others even rooted, a root is the bane of Vi as it cancels Q charge, and you have to charge it again once it's over, essentially slowing yourself).

I agree that she has to be nerfed though, but the PBE currently has her base AD and W %HP damage nerfed at earlier levels (and damage builds max it last).
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 14:18:03
February 22 2013 14:17 GMT
#2190
On February 22 2013 23:10 NeoIllusions wrote:
[image loading][image loading]


EU LCS Week 2 is live!
For TeamLiquid~

whew...

P.S. ty TheKefka


neo isn't it something like 6 am at your place right now TT
go sleep~~
Cackle™
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
February 22 2013 14:20 GMT
#2191
On February 22 2013 23:17 TheKefka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2013 23:10 NeoIllusions wrote:
[image loading][image loading]


EU LCS Week 2 is live!
For TeamLiquid~

whew...

P.S. ty TheKefka


neo isn't it something like 6 am at your place right now TT
go sleep~~


I have really awkward sleeping schedules. I try to get the EU LCS content out at a good (peak) time for EU users.
But thanks for the concern. :3
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
February 22 2013 14:27 GMT
#2192
On February 22 2013 23:20 NeoIllusions wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2013 23:17 TheKefka wrote:
On February 22 2013 23:10 NeoIllusions wrote:
[image loading][image loading]


EU LCS Week 2 is live!
For TeamLiquid~

whew...

P.S. ty TheKefka


neo isn't it something like 6 am at your place right now TT
go sleep~~


I have really awkward sleeping schedules. I try to get the EU LCS content out at a good (peak) time for EU users.
But thanks for the concern. :3


Neo is living darkness. He needs not sleep.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
February 22 2013 14:44 GMT
#2193
If it's 6 AM for you, I say go to bed earlier, get up at 9-10 AM, and you're going to hit about the time where most of Western Europe either just went out of school/work, or barely later, and are checking da interwebz to start their week-end. You get to sleep, and you hit a peak time.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 17:29:48
February 22 2013 17:27 GMT
#2194
People who wants Riven or Vi to get nerfed makes me giggles. Most of the times, the real problem is that they just don t brain when they play against them. Yeah some champ are strong at some moment of the game, big deal. Yeah some champ are strong in 1vs1 and needs some tactics to be taken down. Kill all diversity for the sake of balance, so let s play a game with 5 hero, one for every position.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
February 22 2013 17:29 GMT
#2195
On February 23 2013 02:27 WhiteDog wrote:
People who wants Riven or Vi to get nerfed makes me giggles. Most of the times, the real problem is that they just don t brain when they play against them. Yeah some champ are strong at some moment of the game, big deal. Yeah some champ are strong in 1vs1 and needs some tactics to be taken down. Kill all diversity for the sake of balance.


Balancing champions increases diversity by making it so the only junglers you ever see aren't Vi/Xin/Jarvan/Hecarim. Your post makes no sense.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 17:36:42
February 22 2013 17:31 GMT
#2196
On February 23 2013 02:29 Ketara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2013 02:27 WhiteDog wrote:
People who wants Riven or Vi to get nerfed makes me giggles. Most of the times, the real problem is that they just don t brain when they play against them. Yeah some champ are strong at some moment of the game, big deal. Yeah some champ are strong in 1vs1 and needs some tactics to be taken down. Kill all diversity for the sake of balance.


Balancing champions increases diversity by making it so the only junglers you ever see aren't Vi/Xin/Jarvan/Hecarim. Your post makes no sense.

There are other viable junglers on par with Vi that are not played because people don't want to and prefer to play the fotm.
Most nerfs are prematured and badly hought out.

Look at bestrivenNa, great he goes red flask, two dorans, early xp on golem, and gets fed one game out of three: do you nerf riven or just make people understand not to give their ass to a guy who is waiting for it every games?
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 17:35:14
February 22 2013 17:34 GMT
#2197
So I guess your argument then is that Riot is stupid for nerfing Vi and the community is stupid for playing Vi.

We apparently live in a world where everyone is an idiot except for you. Good to know.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 17:42:57
February 22 2013 17:42 GMT
#2198
On February 23 2013 02:34 Ketara wrote:
So I guess your argument then is that Riot is stupid for nerfing Vi and the community is stupid for playing Vi.

We apparently live in a world where everyone is an idiot except for you. Good to know.

Don t be so depressed. People play Vi because : she is good, new, nice ass, fun gameplay.
That does not justify a nerf to me, maybe work a little in order to make other jungler as viable and fun as her.

Also, Riot is not nerfing stuff just to balance the game, they have to react to all the whiners and show they listen.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
February 22 2013 17:46 GMT
#2199
Sounds an awful like Riot and everybody else is stupid, to me.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
February 22 2013 17:54 GMT
#2200
On February 23 2013 02:27 WhiteDog wrote:
People who wants Riven or Vi to get nerfed makes me giggles. Most of the times, the real problem is that they just don t brain when they play against them. Yeah some champ are strong at some moment of the game, big deal. Yeah some champ are strong in 1vs1 and needs some tactics to be taken down. Kill all diversity for the sake of balance, so let s play a game with 5 hero, one for every position.

I agree that Riot needs to slow down the nerf/buff cycle a bit but your statement that nerfs somehow kill diversity makes zero sense.
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