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On February 13 2013 03:15 YouGotNothin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 02:32 TheYango wrote:On February 13 2013 00:57 overt wrote:
A community manager type person for League. He ran a big DotA website, when he got hired by Riot he put a giant ad for League of Legends on the site and then deleted everything. People were rightfully angered by it since it meant tons of guides and everything on the forums was gone for good. It's pretty stupid though to assume that people from DotA hate League purely because of one Rioters actions three years ago. I dunno if anyone could be that petty.
I'm pretty sure most of the DotA community that dislikes League dislikes it for the same reason that the SC2 community dislikes it. It's competition. And since League has been #1 in eSports viewership for over a year the League community has no real reason to hate on either game since there isn't really any competition. There's also pretty convincing evidence that Riot's gotten several hero designs from the hero design forum that was on Dota-Allstars (don't have the links on hand right now, but I was able to find two hero concepts that pretty clearly became Brand and Nocturne). Obviously within their right to do so as Pendragon was the site owner, but still leaves a bad taste in peoples' mouths. I always thought Nocturne was kind of a rip-off of Spectre in DotA, pretty similar functions.
I'd say rip-off is pretty strong. Spectre is a classic ultra-hard carry, who spends all game farming. The only similarities are global ults and the dagger skill. There are several champs you could call 'iterations' of dota heroes, but none that I would call rip-off.
Edit: autocorrect too stronk
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On February 13 2013 03:15 YouGotNothin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 02:32 TheYango wrote:On February 13 2013 00:57 overt wrote:
A community manager type person for League. He ran a big DotA website, when he got hired by Riot he put a giant ad for League of Legends on the site and then deleted everything. People were rightfully angered by it since it meant tons of guides and everything on the forums was gone for good. It's pretty stupid though to assume that people from DotA hate League purely because of one Rioters actions three years ago. I dunno if anyone could be that petty.
I'm pretty sure most of the DotA community that dislikes League dislikes it for the same reason that the SC2 community dislikes it. It's competition. And since League has been #1 in eSports viewership for over a year the League community has no real reason to hate on either game since there isn't really any competition. There's also pretty convincing evidence that Riot's gotten several hero designs from the hero design forum that was on Dota-Allstars (don't have the links on hand right now, but I was able to find two hero concepts that pretty clearly became Brand and Nocturne). Obviously within their right to do so as Pendragon was the site owner, but still leaves a bad taste in peoples' mouths. I always thought Nocturne was kind of a rip-off of Spectre in DotA, pretty similar functions.
I don't see that at all tbh. Spectral Dagger and Duskbringer are similar, but that's pretty much it. Haunt is much more similar to Destiny, and her 2 passives are unlike anything Noc has, both in what they do and how they allow her to function as a hero/champ.
Nocturne functions a lot more like Dark Lady in HoN, which I think may have been inspired by the same Dota-allstars forum idea. She was one of HoN's earliest 'unique'(not a DotA clone) heroes so I wouldn't find it shocking.
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On February 13 2013 03:26 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 03:15 YouGotNothin wrote:On February 13 2013 02:32 TheYango wrote:On February 13 2013 00:57 overt wrote:
A community manager type person for League. He ran a big DotA website, when he got hired by Riot he put a giant ad for League of Legends on the site and then deleted everything. People were rightfully angered by it since it meant tons of guides and everything on the forums was gone for good. It's pretty stupid though to assume that people from DotA hate League purely because of one Rioters actions three years ago. I dunno if anyone could be that petty.
I'm pretty sure most of the DotA community that dislikes League dislikes it for the same reason that the SC2 community dislikes it. It's competition. And since League has been #1 in eSports viewership for over a year the League community has no real reason to hate on either game since there isn't really any competition. There's also pretty convincing evidence that Riot's gotten several hero designs from the hero design forum that was on Dota-Allstars (don't have the links on hand right now, but I was able to find two hero concepts that pretty clearly became Brand and Nocturne). Obviously within their right to do so as Pendragon was the site owner, but still leaves a bad taste in peoples' mouths. I always thought Nocturne was kind of a rip-off of Spectre in DotA, pretty similar functions. I'd say rip-off is pretty strong. Spectre is a classic ultra-hard carry, who spends all game farming. The only similarities are global ults and the dagger skill. There are several champs you could call 'iterations' of data heroes, but none that I would call rip-off.
the general theme of nightmare-based creature, melee carry, strong defensively (spellshield/reflect), teleporting across the map, dagger skill... imo that's grabbing a bit more than an homage
not that i care, both champs are awesome
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There actually was a hero design in the Dota-Allstars custom heroes forum that basically has Nocturne's fear and ulti, which is what I was referring to.
Obviously Duskbringer is taken from Spec.
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On February 13 2013 03:26 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 03:15 YouGotNothin wrote:On February 13 2013 02:32 TheYango wrote:On February 13 2013 00:57 overt wrote:
A community manager type person for League. He ran a big DotA website, when he got hired by Riot he put a giant ad for League of Legends on the site and then deleted everything. People were rightfully angered by it since it meant tons of guides and everything on the forums was gone for good. It's pretty stupid though to assume that people from DotA hate League purely because of one Rioters actions three years ago. I dunno if anyone could be that petty.
I'm pretty sure most of the DotA community that dislikes League dislikes it for the same reason that the SC2 community dislikes it. It's competition. And since League has been #1 in eSports viewership for over a year the League community has no real reason to hate on either game since there isn't really any competition. There's also pretty convincing evidence that Riot's gotten several hero designs from the hero design forum that was on Dota-Allstars (don't have the links on hand right now, but I was able to find two hero concepts that pretty clearly became Brand and Nocturne). Obviously within their right to do so as Pendragon was the site owner, but still leaves a bad taste in peoples' mouths. I always thought Nocturne was kind of a rip-off of Spectre in DotA, pretty similar functions. I'd say rip-off is pretty strong. Spectre is a classic ultra-hard carry, who spends all game farming. The only similarities are global ults and the dagger skill. There are several champs you could call 'iterations' of data heroes, but none that I would call rip-off.
Actually the spectre ult in my opinion is more similar to the twisted fate ult. You reveal all enemies on the map and you're allowed to teleport to one of them. Obviously the illusions are missings, but then the entire concept of illusions is missing from lol. Most of the champions in lol are more or less a mash-up of dota heroes. On the other hand most abilities are fairly generic and while the abilities are mechanically sometimes similar, the champion design is mostly quite unique in my opinion. Take for example a hero like sniper. One of his abilities landed on MF, another one went into Trists passive and his ult went to Cait. And sniper is different to all three of them.
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I was speaking strictly in terms of gameplay. I wouldn't go down the path of lore, since the shadow nightmare character is not something that dota created either
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On February 13 2013 03:44 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 03:26 barbsq wrote:On February 13 2013 03:15 YouGotNothin wrote:On February 13 2013 02:32 TheYango wrote:On February 13 2013 00:57 overt wrote:
A community manager type person for League. He ran a big DotA website, when he got hired by Riot he put a giant ad for League of Legends on the site and then deleted everything. People were rightfully angered by it since it meant tons of guides and everything on the forums was gone for good. It's pretty stupid though to assume that people from DotA hate League purely because of one Rioters actions three years ago. I dunno if anyone could be that petty.
I'm pretty sure most of the DotA community that dislikes League dislikes it for the same reason that the SC2 community dislikes it. It's competition. And since League has been #1 in eSports viewership for over a year the League community has no real reason to hate on either game since there isn't really any competition. There's also pretty convincing evidence that Riot's gotten several hero designs from the hero design forum that was on Dota-Allstars (don't have the links on hand right now, but I was able to find two hero concepts that pretty clearly became Brand and Nocturne). Obviously within their right to do so as Pendragon was the site owner, but still leaves a bad taste in peoples' mouths. I always thought Nocturne was kind of a rip-off of Spectre in DotA, pretty similar functions. I'd say rip-off is pretty strong. Spectre is a classic ultra-hard carry, who spends all game farming. The only similarities are global ults and the dagger skill. There are several champs you could call 'iterations' of data heroes, but none that I would call rip-off. Actually the spectre ult in my opinion is more similar to the twisted fate ult. You reveal all enemies on the map and you're allowed to teleport to one of them. Obviously the illusions are missings, but then the entire concept of illusions is missing from lol. Most of the champions in lol are more or less a mash-up of dota heroes. On the other hand most abilities are fairly generic and while the abilities are mechanically sometimes similar, the champion design is mostly quite unique in my opinion. Take for example a hero like sniper. One of his abilities landed on MF, another one went into Trists passive and his ult went to Cait. And sniper is different to all three of them.
Yeah those kinds of mashups aren't what I was referring to.
The hero designs scraped from the DotA-Allstars archive have more than just a passing resemblance to their corresponding LoL champions.
On February 13 2013 03:23 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 03:15 YouGotNothin wrote:On February 13 2013 02:32 TheYango wrote:On February 13 2013 00:57 overt wrote:
A community manager type person for League. He ran a big DotA website, when he got hired by Riot he put a giant ad for League of Legends on the site and then deleted everything. People were rightfully angered by it since it meant tons of guides and everything on the forums was gone for good. It's pretty stupid though to assume that people from DotA hate League purely because of one Rioters actions three years ago. I dunno if anyone could be that petty.
I'm pretty sure most of the DotA community that dislikes League dislikes it for the same reason that the SC2 community dislikes it. It's competition. And since League has been #1 in eSports viewership for over a year the League community has no real reason to hate on either game since there isn't really any competition. There's also pretty convincing evidence that Riot's gotten several hero designs from the hero design forum that was on Dota-Allstars (don't have the links on hand right now, but I was able to find two hero concepts that pretty clearly became Brand and Nocturne). Obviously within their right to do so as Pendragon was the site owner, but still leaves a bad taste in peoples' mouths. I always thought Nocturne was kind of a rip-off of Spectre in DotA, pretty similar functions. Yeah I've never gotten that either. I've also heard that timbersaw in dota got released after rumble but that rumble was stolen from the idea of tibersaw.
The resemblance is only conceptual, and has very little basis in their game mechanics.
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God, the twitch.tv servers are down right horrible recently.... Basically every single stream lags hard and no it's not my connection.
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On February 13 2013 03:46 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 03:44 BlueSpace wrote:On February 13 2013 03:26 barbsq wrote:On February 13 2013 03:15 YouGotNothin wrote:On February 13 2013 02:32 TheYango wrote:On February 13 2013 00:57 overt wrote:
A community manager type person for League. He ran a big DotA website, when he got hired by Riot he put a giant ad for League of Legends on the site and then deleted everything. People were rightfully angered by it since it meant tons of guides and everything on the forums was gone for good. It's pretty stupid though to assume that people from DotA hate League purely because of one Rioters actions three years ago. I dunno if anyone could be that petty.
I'm pretty sure most of the DotA community that dislikes League dislikes it for the same reason that the SC2 community dislikes it. It's competition. And since League has been #1 in eSports viewership for over a year the League community has no real reason to hate on either game since there isn't really any competition. There's also pretty convincing evidence that Riot's gotten several hero designs from the hero design forum that was on Dota-Allstars (don't have the links on hand right now, but I was able to find two hero concepts that pretty clearly became Brand and Nocturne). Obviously within their right to do so as Pendragon was the site owner, but still leaves a bad taste in peoples' mouths. I always thought Nocturne was kind of a rip-off of Spectre in DotA, pretty similar functions. I'd say rip-off is pretty strong. Spectre is a classic ultra-hard carry, who spends all game farming. The only similarities are global ults and the dagger skill. There are several champs you could call 'iterations' of data heroes, but none that I would call rip-off. Actually the spectre ult in my opinion is more similar to the twisted fate ult. You reveal all enemies on the map and you're allowed to teleport to one of them. Obviously the illusions are missings, but then the entire concept of illusions is missing from lol. Most of the champions in lol are more or less a mash-up of dota heroes. On the other hand most abilities are fairly generic and while the abilities are mechanically sometimes similar, the champion design is mostly quite unique in my opinion. Take for example a hero like sniper. One of his abilities landed on MF, another one went into Trists passive and his ult went to Cait. And sniper is different to all three of them. Yeah those kinds of mashups aren't what I was referring to. The hero designs scraped from the DotA-Allstars archive have more than just a passing resemblance to their corresponding LoL champions. Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 03:23 Sermokala wrote:On February 13 2013 03:15 YouGotNothin wrote:On February 13 2013 02:32 TheYango wrote:On February 13 2013 00:57 overt wrote:
A community manager type person for League. He ran a big DotA website, when he got hired by Riot he put a giant ad for League of Legends on the site and then deleted everything. People were rightfully angered by it since it meant tons of guides and everything on the forums was gone for good. It's pretty stupid though to assume that people from DotA hate League purely because of one Rioters actions three years ago. I dunno if anyone could be that petty.
I'm pretty sure most of the DotA community that dislikes League dislikes it for the same reason that the SC2 community dislikes it. It's competition. And since League has been #1 in eSports viewership for over a year the League community has no real reason to hate on either game since there isn't really any competition. There's also pretty convincing evidence that Riot's gotten several hero designs from the hero design forum that was on Dota-Allstars (don't have the links on hand right now, but I was able to find two hero concepts that pretty clearly became Brand and Nocturne). Obviously within their right to do so as Pendragon was the site owner, but still leaves a bad taste in peoples' mouths. I always thought Nocturne was kind of a rip-off of Spectre in DotA, pretty similar functions. Yeah I've never gotten that either. I've also heard that timbersaw in dota got released after rumble but that rumble was stolen from the idea of tibersaw. The resemblance is only conceptual, and has very little basis in their game mechanics.
There's only so many gameplay archetypes a game can feature. Almost every role based game has the same formula; tank, bruiser, melee burst, melee sustained dps, ranged burst, ranged sustained dps, healer. From these you can break down each into sub categories- dodgetank, blocktank, hptank, resistancetank, cctank, etc.
As for stealing art concepts, both Timbersaw and Rumble were stolen from Goblin Shredders in the Warcraft universe.
*Edit* Thx Yang
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Games of the same genre can be similar in some parts.
STOP THE PRESSES!
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United States47024 Posts
*Goblin Shredders
And yes, it's intentional--the hero is even CALLED "Goblin Shredder" in WC3 DotA, and only got renamed to Timbersaw for copyright reasons in DotA 2.
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On February 13 2013 04:11 TheYango wrote:
*Goblin Shredders
And yes, it's intentional--the hero is even CALLED "Goblin Shredder" in WC3 DotA, and only got renamed to Timbersaw for copyright reasons in DotA 2.
Shredder, right on. I confused it with Sappers from WC2.
One thing that people are missing is that "ripping off" and "paying homage" are very different ways to view the same thing. A little guy driving a hunked-together scrapyard mech is a really interesting design. Riot could have made Rumble look like anything and have the same gameplay mechanics- perhaps they really thought the idea of Shredders was cool and made it a little tribute. Kha'Zix is obviously a Xenomorph, and Rengar is obviously a Predator (Yautjaa), for instance.
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On February 13 2013 03:46 TheYango wrote:
The resemblance is only conceptual, and has very little basis in their game mechanics.
does anybody in lol resemble dota in terms of mechanics?
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It's funny,I think LoL is going to find itself in a similar situation as Dota as soon as realize how retarded Lux is.
Kotl is a top ban pick for a decent amount of time now as lux is going to be as soon as people figure out that it's actually impossible to push against a max cdr Lux.
Such obnoxious design man it really boils my blood.
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Not that I know of but Hero releases are a lot less frequent in dota than in lol. It's a far more likely LoL has resembles just because of that regardless of if they did or did not take anything from the game. I don't really think it's a bad thing to look at what others are doing and take the good ideas from them to see if they work in your environment. Don't get the sigma on that either, two people can have the same idea without stealing from each other as well.
On February 13 2013 04:23 TheKefka wrote:
It's funny,I think LoL is going to find itself in a similar situation as Dota as soon as people figure out how retarded Lux is.
Kotl is a top ban pick for a decent amount of time now as lux is going to be as soon as people figure out that it's actually impossible to push against a max cdr Lux.
Such obnoxious design man it really boils my blood.
Well kotl has lux ulti at level 1 :D. Also gives mana to everyone while porting anyone to him. Think the porting hero is actually one of his most important aspects. Actually now that I think of it, I can't recall any champ in league that has situational teleportation like wisp/kotl.
Anyway I think lux design suffers from the fact that her passive needs autos to trigger. If they changed that they could make her a lot cooler I rate.
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United States47024 Posts
TBH I always half-jokingly say that Kha'zix is kind of like Slark.
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On February 13 2013 04:24 Numy wrote:Not that I know of but Hero releases are a lot less frequent in dota than in lol. It's a far more likely LoL has resembles just because of that regardless of if they did or did not take anything from the game. I don't really think it's a bad thing to look at what others are doing and take the good ideas from them to see if they work in your environment. Don't get the sigma on that either, two people can have the same idea without stealing from each other as well. Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 04:23 TheKefka wrote:
It's funny,I think LoL is going to find itself in a similar situation as Dota as soon as people figure out how retarded Lux is.
Kotl is a top ban pick for a decent amount of time now as lux is going to be as soon as people figure out that it's actually impossible to push against a max cdr Lux.
Such obnoxious design man it really boils my blood. Well kotl has lux ulti at level 1 :D. Also gives mana to everyone while porting anyone to him. Think the porting hero is actually one of his most important aspects. Actually now that I think of it, I can't recall any champ in league that has situational teleportation like wisp/kotl
Port is good but illuminate is what makes kotl kotl,it's just a retarded antipush/harass/mass damage/zoning/farm ability.Mana leak is ok but lux has a semi aoe projectile that stuns instantly.
They obviously are not exactly the same but do pretty much the same thing at a point where the other team plays 5 man and tries to push and it's the most annoying thing ever.
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On February 13 2013 04:28 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 04:24 Numy wrote:Not that I know of but Hero releases are a lot less frequent in dota than in lol. It's a far more likely LoL has resembles just because of that regardless of if they did or did not take anything from the game. I don't really think it's a bad thing to look at what others are doing and take the good ideas from them to see if they work in your environment. Don't get the sigma on that either, two people can have the same idea without stealing from each other as well. On February 13 2013 04:23 TheKefka wrote:
It's funny,I think LoL is going to find itself in a similar situation as Dota as soon as people figure out how retarded Lux is.
Kotl is a top ban pick for a decent amount of time now as lux is going to be as soon as people figure out that it's actually impossible to push against a max cdr Lux.
Such obnoxious design man it really boils my blood. Well kotl has lux ulti at level 1 :D. Also gives mana to everyone while porting anyone to him. Think the porting hero is actually one of his most important aspects. Actually now that I think of it, I can't recall any champ in league that has situational teleportation like wisp/kotl Port is good but illuminate is what makes kotl kotl,it's just a retarded antipush/harass/mass damage/farm ability.Mana leak is ok but lux has a semi aoe projectile that stuns instantly. They obviously are not exactly the same but do pretty much the same thing at a point where the other team plays 5 man and tries to push and it's the most annoying thing ever.
Roots.
Also Anivia is much more obnoxious than Lux. Though I came to hate her too for how forgiving and safe she is (moreso against my go-to mids I'll admit).
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No shes not.Anivias ult is pretty short range when you think about it and it allows for at least some sort of counter play.Lux ults creepwaves from half the map away and theres nothing you can do about it.
Anivia really shines when you need to protect the high ground tower-
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TF and shen have situational teleports...cant teleport allies to them though
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EPT
