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Just my two cents, but cheap Athene's is just too good on Sona-- it gives her AP, CD, mana regen, and even more mana regen.
You get an early chalice and spam all day to fuck up your opponent in lane. Next, you get Athene's and you basically give your team infinite staying power with a small, but extremely low cooldown, heal and do that all mid shit. If your jungler builds an Aegis and you pick up a Banner of Command (super minions are ridiculously strong early on) you have the stupidest siege comp ever.
I've been going faerie 3x green 1 red 1 blue into some order of sight/chalice/philo/boots, kindlegem/codex, Athenes, banner/shurleya into deathcap with 9/0/21 (pickpocket + mpen/exhaust basically) and mpen/flat armor/scaling mr/gp5 quints. I kind of want to see if the AP's are better, or try some CDR ones so I can get that last 5% and put a couple points in defense masteries.
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On January 26 2013 02:50 MattBarry wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 01:51 obesechicken13 wrote:On January 26 2013 01:11 MattBarry wrote:
Urgot/Thresh has stupid level of synergy. Urgot ults the enemy carry the hops on a latern into his own personal peeling machine support
Edit: I really like the new item for Morgana. It fits the niche where you don't have 1600 gold and you don't need a chain vest so you would go double doran's into plate of the warmage or whatever it's called now. Thresh seems to provide a lot of interesting utility with his lantern. They can greatly nerf his damage if he turns out to be too powerful but it's always going to have the utility of his lantern which is really unique to him. Good thing too. I was getting tired of all the lee sin clones. I love Thresh, he makes adcs without escapes more viable. He creates the same problem as Nunu, Nunu fixes Caitlyn because he covers up her only weakness. Thresh covers up some adc's only weakness which is no escapes. And if a champion has no weaknesses that can create problems
'
draven/thresh will be pretty common soon enough perhaps. If they dont nerf MF then its obviously going to be mf/thresh. The box + mf ult to block them off lol.
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On January 26 2013 03:01 ticklishmusic wrote:
Just my two cents, but cheap Athene's is just too good on Sona-- it gives her AP, CD, mana regen, and even more mana regen.
You get an early chalice and spam all day to fuck up your opponent in lane. Next, you get Athene's and you basically give your team infinite staying power with a small, but extremely low cooldown, heal and do that all mid shit. If your jungler builds an Aegis and you pick up a Banner of Command (super minions are ridiculously strong early on) you have the stupidest siege comp ever.
I've been going faerie 3x green 1 red 1 blue into some order of sight/chalice/philo/boots, kindlegem/codex, Athenes, banner/shurleya into deathcap with 9/0/21 (pickpocket + mpen/exhaust basically) and mpen/flat armor/scaling mr/gp5 quints
I always get shit in Solo queue for opening chalice on sona/janna/zyra, but why should i care what some 1350 idiots think about how I build supports. Usually end up getting Crucible rather than Athene's, but I guess I just like the clutch heals with it. Then I usually go for aegis/banner/zekes depending on the team (after sightstone ofc), and if the game isn't over after that, I just build whatever
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On January 26 2013 03:04 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 02:50 MattBarry wrote:On January 26 2013 01:51 obesechicken13 wrote:On January 26 2013 01:11 MattBarry wrote:
Urgot/Thresh has stupid level of synergy. Urgot ults the enemy carry the hops on a latern into his own personal peeling machine support
Edit: I really like the new item for Morgana. It fits the niche where you don't have 1600 gold and you don't need a chain vest so you would go double doran's into plate of the warmage or whatever it's called now. Thresh seems to provide a lot of interesting utility with his lantern. They can greatly nerf his damage if he turns out to be too powerful but it's always going to have the utility of his lantern which is really unique to him. Good thing too. I was getting tired of all the lee sin clones. I love Thresh, he makes adcs without escapes more viable. He creates the same problem as Nunu, Nunu fixes Caitlyn because he covers up her only weakness. Thresh covers up some adc's only weakness which is no escapes. And if a champion has no weaknesses that can create problems ' draven/thresh will be pretty common soon enough perhaps. If they dont nerf MF then its obviously going to be mf/thresh. The box + mf ult to block them off lol.
I want to run him with Kog'Maw. Shit out damage, free escape from your bro support and if the enemy gets near you your cc machine Thresh will allow you to wreck his face.
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On January 26 2013 02:59 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 02:39 spellsy wrote:
i have question, do many people here use guides from like solomid/lolking/lolpro ? and if so how ? (like read whole guide, or pick champ and look up guide quick for runes/masteries/quickbuild, or look at guides before purchasing champ? etc?) I only use guides when it's written by a high Elo player so I can pick at their reasoning. Otherwise I'm confident enough in my game knowledge to build/rune any champion on the fly. Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 02:44 spellsy wrote:
also, am i the only one who thinks varus is sick vs mf ? I think Varus is fairly underrated in general. He's definitely good against MF, as he can very consistently knock her out of her passive from a safe distance. He's also one of the more effective ADs against Taric thanks to his W. Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 02:54 arb wrote:
Man. That Rengar W change is sooooo dumb.
Heals for the same or more than the % based one I don't necessarily think it's dumb. The key to this change is that Rengar can no longer rush health items and crush early laning, it's based entirely on levels. So the change nerfs his early laning without screwing him over later. It also makes building him as an assassin more viable (whether you think that's a good or bad thing is up to you).
I guess I didnt look at it that way but that makes sense. I still build him pretty healthy regardless.
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getting chalice early isnt that good imo, i used to get chalice in s2 on sona after 1st big item cause i think she gets really mana intensive in teamfight type situations so the chalice is really good, but for in lane it gives you mr which you dont really need and is costly. philo gives the same (more) regen than it if you are >80% mana (which isnt that often, but yea, the point is its slight, and philo gives better stats for lane (hpreg) and is cheaper, and give you gp10)
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eleisa's miracle is > chalice when you are >50 % mana, it costs ~200 more than chalice and gives the hp regen + summ passive + disappears
edit: this is comparing a level 6 sona with eleisa's miracle to one with chalice
edit2: actually after looking sona has actually the 2nd highest base/growth for mana regen out of all supports (2nd only to zyra), so the chalice would be less efficient on the lower stats supports
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thresh top is so fucking crazy good. Oh god the ganks just stand in the top bush and wait for them to go onto thresh and be instantly joining the party.
I think its crazy you don't think that chalice early isn't good but what do I know.
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On January 26 2013 03:19 spellsy wrote:
getting chalice early isnt that good imo, i used to get chalice in s2 on sona after 1st big item cause i think she gets really mana intensive in teamfight type situations so the chalice is really good, but for in lane it gives you mr which you dont really need and is costly. philo gives the same (more) regen than it if you are >80% mana (which isnt that often, but yea, the point is its slight, and philo gives better stats for lane (hpreg) and is cheaper, and give you gp10)
If a support has sustain then additional mana regeneration can be converted into health regeneration. You also need to take into account that Chalice works on base regeneration as well.
Consider a level 5 Sona at 40% Mana as an example. Her innate regeneration (assuming Meditation) is 10.25 mp5. With Chalice at that mana level she gains an additional 17.35 mp5. Philosopher's Stone grants 7 hp5 and 9 mp5. The 8.35 mp5 difference equates to another W every 42 seconds, which is effectively 9.5 hp5 for both Sona and her carry.
Chalice does cost 180g more than Philo, but then it also comes with Magic Resistance (which isn't entirely useless given the number of AD carries and supports with significant magic damage). I wouldn't necessarily want Chalice on supports without sustain, but on those that have it and are mana constrained it seems like a very powerful option.
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yea i calculated in base regen, i made this silly excel chart >_>.. i can show you even if you look at stream right now and type in chat : http://www.twitch.tv/Spellsy
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United States3721 Posts
yeah but philo has gp10 which i heard was the best stat in the game
+ Show Spoiler +to have endless gd discussions about
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On January 26 2013 03:01 ticklishmusic wrote:
Just my two cents, but cheap Athene's is just too good on Sona-- it gives her AP, CD, mana regen, and even more mana regen.
Mikael's is probably better, at least as a support item. A lot cheaper, gives you mana font, and the active is really good (having a clutch heal/cc removal helps a lot). Also the CDR on Athene's is a bit overkill- I usually get Shurelya's/Locket/Ionians on Sona, which is 35% CDR, which will you get to the 40% cap if you go 21 points in the utility tree. You lose out on some mana regen and the ability power, but it's not like Sona's AP ratios are amazing (except her q and ult).
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I just feel that chalice is just really, really good on pokey supports-- Lulu, Janna, Zyra, Zilean, Lux, maybe even Raka. Philo is good, but generally I think chalice lets you get more of a lane advantage b/c of spamming. As you said, philo gives more mana regen only at 80% or over. You win trades against their support pretty much no matter what with the MR/ mana advantage. I feel that the "offense" you gain from spamming with chalice also lets you utilize pickpocket a bit better b/c you can force them low on mana/hp a lot faster with poking and trading, especially with Sona.
Philo also has good synergy with chalice, and I get that as well-- its ultimately just the order that changes for me depending on how much gold I have when I back.
I'm very mixed on Elesia's. It gives decent regen, but regen becomes pretty pointless unless its huge amounts (like Athene's/Chalice) but the summoner spell CD reduction is pretty much useless because those spells never see any use.
Crucible is only 400 gold cheaper now than Grail. I feel that Grail just makes you have more use-- the AP makes you have stronger heals and damage. The extra cleanse is nice, but I feel its more of a niche item against some really stupid champs.
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On January 26 2013 02:39 spellsy wrote:
i have question, do many people here use guides from like solomid/lolking/lolpro ? and if so how ? (like read whole guide, or pick champ and look up guide quick for runes/masteries/quickbuild, or look at guides before purchasing champ? etc?)
Occasionally, if it's a a champ I've never played. Mostly just to check runes/masteries/itemization/skill order to make sure I'm not way off base. Sometimes I read the whole thing if it is a champion that I've had problems with or it is obvious the guide is really well written.
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why do people do double RoA on Ryze right now on EU S3 Qual?
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RoA too cost-effective, plus you gotta stack health.
Chalice is also surprisingly good on Taric as soon as he gets some cdr rolling, because of how spammy (and costly) his heal is in any prolonged fight.
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plus the massive mana means Muramana is even more ridiculous.
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Ryze gains nearly as much damage on his Q from a stacked RoA as he does from a fully stacked Tear, and more damage on W and E, while also gaining craptons of Health.
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Has anyone done the math for which ADC does the most damage at 6 items? I assume it's either Koggles or Vayne. But which one?
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Chalice -> ruby sightstone -> mikaels is so strong on Sona. You get endless mana into health, gp10 and a sick heal on top of your 5 sec w.
Sona is so fun to play, esp when the opposing ADC doesnt expect your burst damage at all (at 1400 ELO :D)
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EPT
