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[Patch 1.0.0.154: Preseason Balance Update 2] GD - Page 12

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Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-16 15:49:57
January 16 2013 15:49 GMT
#221
Her E is excellent against ganks because she doesn't need to stun: the knock-back is enough to interrupt all non-instant gap closers (except Twisted Advance; I believe Audacious Charge from Xin isn't instant either but it requires good timing, same with Amumu as you'll get stunned if you E too late, miss him if you cast it too early).

I saw the mention of Link too late to watch the game though, so I can't talk about that, I'll admit. :/ Does he play her often apart from that one game?
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
January 16 2013 15:52 GMT
#222
On January 17 2013 00:14 overt wrote:
Fair warning to people who weren't around back when Annie was viable/popular. If visual re-work creates a new wave of fotm Annie prepare yourselves for constant bitching (even on TL) from bads who can't deal with her lane phase. The Annie bitching of early S2 was worse than how much people bitched about Darius.

Annie fotm? Fuck she counters every lane with her stun + damage and 100%->0's entire team fights. Goes out of FOTM with no changes? Obviously she loses lane to everyone and she relies too much on flash to do anything in a teamfight.

Distortion seems really good on her, with how reliant she is on flash to get the most out of Tibbers initiates.
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
January 16 2013 15:57 GMT
#223
annie is boring as fk, same reason why nobody plays udyr
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-16 16:03:34
January 16 2013 15:58 GMT
#224
Wait what. Annie visual remake?! She doesn't need one, and with the new model she looks WAY TOO ANGRY.

God damn it Riot. Why did you remove the smirk from Frostfire Annie? That was probably the best Annie skin just because she had a smirk on her face.

On January 17 2013 00:52 sylverfyre wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2013 00:14 overt wrote:
Fair warning to people who weren't around back when Annie was viable/popular. If visual re-work creates a new wave of fotm Annie prepare yourselves for constant bitching (even on TL) from bads who can't deal with her lane phase. The Annie bitching of early S2 was worse than how much people bitched about Darius.

Annie fotm? Fuck she counters every lane with her stun + damage and 100%->0's entire team fights. Goes out of FOTM with no changes? Obviously she loses lane to everyone and she relies too much on flash to do anything in a teamfight.

Distortion seems really good on her, with how reliant she is on flash to get the most out of Tibbers initiates.


Annie's laning phase is retarded but she falls off way too hard.

Also I am pretty sure Furor is better on her.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
January 16 2013 16:03 GMT
#225
On January 17 2013 00:57 kongoline wrote:
annie is boring as fk, same reason why nobody plays udyr

Wut, Udyr fun as shit, no one plays him because League of Mobility Creep.
It's your boy Guzma!
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
January 16 2013 16:04 GMT
#226
On January 17 2013 01:03 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2013 00:57 kongoline wrote:
annie is boring as fk, same reason why nobody plays udyr

Wut, Udyr fun as shit, no one plays him because League of Mobility Creep.


In that regard Annie has the same problem.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
January 16 2013 16:08 GMT
#227
Thank god for the cone changes!!
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
January 16 2013 16:09 GMT
#228
On January 17 2013 01:08 emperorchampion wrote:
Thank god for the cone changes!!


It will definitely make Annie easier to play too. I really, really hate playing her though.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
January 16 2013 16:15 GMT
#229
Annie doesn't fall off that hard late game. She still initiates and counter-initiates better than most other AP mids. She has some damage fall off but with E plus AP tanky items you can usually survive to get off enough damage in fights to be relevant damage wise.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-16 16:21:45
January 16 2013 16:20 GMT
#230
On January 17 2013 01:15 overt wrote:
Annie doesn't fall off that hard late game. She still initiates and counter-initiates better than most other AP mids. She has some damage fall off but with E plus AP tanky items you can usually survive to get off enough damage in fights to be relevant damage wise.


Well her R's AOE is kind of small (seriously, her R is really not that much different from casting her W a second time) and her ratios are pretty low.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
January 16 2013 16:24 GMT
#231
On January 16 2013 18:19 dae wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2013 17:26 Seuss wrote:
What's that? Jungle gold changes? Time for some math!

The base value of a creep wave is 105g, or 145g on waves with a cannon minion. Factoring in the 16 gp10 passive, this gives a perfect last-hitter approximately 333 gold per minute, increasing by 6.66 gold every 3 minutes (or 1.11 gold per minute).

The total gold value of all small camps is now 172g. Factoring in passive gold again, this gives a farming jungler 268 gold per minute, increasing by 2.724 gold every minute.

So from the outset (and without considering buff camps) a jungler who can perpetually farm small camps matches a lane which last-hits at 75% accuracy. All it takes for a jungler to completely match a perfect lane is to leech one creep wave every two minutes, and as time passes it only becomes more favorable for the jungler.

We're tip-toeing close to a point where it may be more valuable to send a hard carry into the jungle, knowing that it is the safest place in the game to get a carry farmed. So long as the jungler is in place to cover lanes when there's a recall or a swap they'll get better farm than any lane (possibly much better if you cede built-up creep waves). Whether we've crossed that threshold or not remains to be seen, and depends heavily on whether there are any champions who fit the bill, but it's a distinct possibility.


Hard carries tend to be fragile in jungle.

Things like Shaco would have a tendency to just kill you.


If you're limiting your thinking to ranged AD carries then most aren't capable junglers, but we don't need all carries (ranged or otherwise) to be competent junglers for this idea to be functional. It only takes one or two champions who break from the norm for alternatives such as this to work.

On January 16 2013 18:30 UniversalSnip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2013 17:43 Seuss wrote:
On January 16 2013 17:33 wei2coolman wrote:
On January 16 2013 17:26 Seuss wrote:
What's that? Jungle gold changes? Time for some math!

The base value of a creep wave is 105g, or 145g on waves with a cannon minion. Factoring in the 16 gp10 passive, this gives a perfect last-hitter approximately 333 gold per minute, increasing by 3.33 gold every 3 minutes (or 1.11 gold per minute).

The total gold value of all small camps is now 172g. Factoring in passive gold again, this gives a farming jungler 268 gold per minute, increasing by 2.724 gold every minute.

So from the outset (and without considering buff camps) a jungler who can perpetually farm small camps matches a lane which last-hits at 75% accuracy. All it takes for a jungler to completely match a perfect lane is to leech one creep wave every two minutes, and as time passes it only becomes more favorable for the jungler.

We're tip-toeing close to a point where it may be more valuable to send a hard carry into the jungle, knowing that it is the safest place in the game to get a carry farmed. So long as the jungler is in place to cover lanes when there's a recall or a swap they'll get better farm than any lane (possibly much better if you cede built-up creep waves). Whether we've crossed that threshold or not remains to be seen, and depends heavily on whether there are any champions who fit the bill, but it's a distinct possibility.

New jungle probably still requires machete, which still sucks , 300 gold sink right there, and possibly the 2nd tier machete item gunna cost a lot of gold too.


You shouldn't need to upgrade Machete if you're playing a hard carry; you're going to build damage anyway. In that case Machete is only a 90g sunk cost as it sells for 210g.


can't say that assessment seems quite honest to me considering how late you're likely to sell the machete


My counter-criticism is that the only reason you're likely to hold on to the Machete for so long is because you're not likely to need the slot, nor the 210g, until later in the game. If, at any point past the first couple of clears, 210g or that slot is the difference between getting an important item or not, then you should just sell the Machete. Machete is only a large burden if you hold onto it longer than you need to.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-16 16:28:42
January 16 2013 16:27 GMT
#232
I really would like it if you could have a strategy where the 3 lanes play safe and a hard carry farms the jungle all day. Somebody like Tryndamere or maybe Kayle/Gangplank. AD Yi I guess. AD Yi is lame.

If the jungle farm could outdo lane farm if you're constantly farming, you could do a strategy with something like 3 safe solo lanes (people who can 1v2), a carry jungler who farms constantly, and a roaming support who just appears wherever the enemy 1v2 lane is.

Maybe like Zilean, Yorick, Irelia, Zyra, Tryndamere. If that could work I'd be amused as all hell.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
January 16 2013 16:28 GMT
#233
Hmmm remember guys the jungle items got buffed this patch as well.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
SagaZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
France3460 Posts
January 16 2013 16:28 GMT
#234
Spirit of the Elder Lizard
Now grants +10% cooldown reduction

So they just added 10% cdr without making the already cost effective item more expensive?
shit's crazy lol
also syndra was already on the strong side before the patch and now they buff her? daym
welcome back support alistar
Be nice, buy wards and don't feed double buff.
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-16 16:29:42
January 16 2013 16:28 GMT
#235
On January 17 2013 00:58 Sufficiency wrote:
Wait what. Annie visual remake?! She doesn't need one, and with the new model she looks WAY TOO ANGRY.

God damn it Riot. Why did you remove the smirk from Frostfire Annie? That was probably the best Annie skin just because she had a smirk on her face.

Show nested quote +
On January 17 2013 00:52 sylverfyre wrote:
On January 17 2013 00:14 overt wrote:
Fair warning to people who weren't around back when Annie was viable/popular. If visual re-work creates a new wave of fotm Annie prepare yourselves for constant bitching (even on TL) from bads who can't deal with her lane phase. The Annie bitching of early S2 was worse than how much people bitched about Darius.

Annie fotm? Fuck she counters every lane with her stun + damage and 100%->0's entire team fights. Goes out of FOTM with no changes? Obviously she loses lane to everyone and she relies too much on flash to do anything in a teamfight.

Distortion seems really good on her, with how reliant she is on flash to get the most out of Tibbers initiates.


Annie's laning phase is retarded but she falls off way too hard.

Also I am pretty sure Furor is better on her.

Now my Goth Annie skin doesn't look like shit, I approve of the change. Her model wasn't bad, but it wasn't up to their current standards.

Also i regards to whoever mentioned Darius not getting nerfed , they are still trying out to figure out how to rework his kit, it's going to be more than a simple numbers tweak when he gets changed.

On January 17 2013 01:28 SagaZ wrote:
Spirit of the Elder Lizard
Now grants +10% cooldown reduction

So they just added 10% cdr without making the already cost effective item more expensive?
shit's crazy lol
also syndra was already on the strong side before the patch and now they buff her? daym
welcome back support alistar

No one was building it, there were still better options. I kind of hope the SS items become worth while, makes getting machete/SS seem like much less of a waste.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12705 Posts
January 16 2013 16:30 GMT
#236
Anyone play GP support?
Tried it last night. Went Flask + wards and pots. Got Pickpocket and the champ damage reduction masteries. Proceeded to zone the opposing ez pretty hard, keeping him at 50%hp or lower for most of lane. My ad carry kinda sucked so I think we could have forced the issue a lot more. GP also pretty strong against Taric lane. Kept wasting the stun on me lol.

I wasn't sure what to get for items afterwards. Went sightstone into warmogs lol. Is there a goal or strength your trying to capitalize on? I just tried to Q on cooldown the enemy AD in lane and use my ult and E to help team-wise.... My experience wasn't great since mid and top got fed and I had one of the better kda ratios.
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
January 16 2013 16:37 GMT
#237
On January 17 2013 01:28 SagaZ wrote:
Spirit of the Elder Lizard
Now grants +10% cooldown reduction

So they just added 10% cdr without making the already cost effective item more expensive?
shit's crazy lol
also syndra was already on the strong side before the patch and now they buff her? daym
welcome back support alistar

Cost-effective, slot-effective. Pick one. Its passive doesn't really combo well with other items too.
And I agree that Annie's model was pretty fine. Not gorgeous, but far from ugly, especially considering she was one of the first champions.
Seeing her that angry did surprise me, tho. :<
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
January 16 2013 16:38 GMT
#238
On January 17 2013 01:30 mordek wrote:
Anyone play GP support?
Tried it last night. Went Flask + wards and pots. Got Pickpocket and the champ damage reduction masteries. Proceeded to zone the opposing ez pretty hard, keeping him at 50%hp or lower for most of lane. My ad carry kinda sucked so I think we could have forced the issue a lot more. GP also pretty strong against Taric lane. Kept wasting the stun on me lol.

I wasn't sure what to get for items afterwards. Went sightstone into warmogs lol. Is there a goal or strength your trying to capitalize on? I just tried to Q on cooldown the enemy AD in lane and use my ult and E to help team-wise.... My experience wasn't great since mid and top got fed and I had one of the better kda ratios.

I think the classic argument against support GP was that he's just a worse version of Nunu, but the fact Q procs melee Pickpocket gives him an interesting advantage.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
January 16 2013 16:48 GMT
#239
On January 17 2013 00:49 Alaric wrote:
I saw the mention of Link too late to watch the game though, so I can't talk about that, I'll admit. :/ Does he play her often apart from that one game?


I don't know hey. He was playing her in ranked duo with Chauster too and wrecking face there. Looking at lolking shows recent stats as 5-0 Syndra so guessing he's picked/picking her up.
Agnosthar
Profile Joined August 2010
631 Posts
January 16 2013 16:49 GMT
#240
On January 17 2013 00:58 Sufficiency wrote:
Wait what. Annie visual remake?! She doesn't need one, and with the new model she looks WAY TOO ANGRY.

God damn it Riot. Why did you remove the smirk from Frostfire Annie? That was probably the best Annie skin just because she had a smirk on her face.

Show nested quote +
On January 17 2013 00:52 sylverfyre wrote:
On January 17 2013 00:14 overt wrote:
Fair warning to people who weren't around back when Annie was viable/popular. If visual re-work creates a new wave of fotm Annie prepare yourselves for constant bitching (even on TL) from bads who can't deal with her lane phase. The Annie bitching of early S2 was worse than how much people bitched about Darius.

Annie fotm? Fuck she counters every lane with her stun + damage and 100%->0's entire team fights. Goes out of FOTM with no changes? Obviously she loses lane to everyone and she relies too much on flash to do anything in a teamfight.

Distortion seems really good on her, with how reliant she is on flash to get the most out of Tibbers initiates.


Annie's laning phase is retarded but she falls off way too hard.

Also I am pretty sure Furor is better on her.


As an Anivia and Katarina player I'm not looking forward to her undoubted incoming rise in popularity.
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