EPT[Patch 1.0.0.154: Preseason Balance Update 2] GD - Page 11
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On January 16 2013 22:00 Tobberoth wrote: All of this sounds reasonable to me. If you redistribute HP from minor monsters to the main monsters, you're basically slowly going towards only having one big monster, which obviously makes AOE irrelevant. However, like you say, the difference in speed is minor for singletarget dpsers because they still have to cut through the same amount of HP. Of course it depends on the heroes kit, a singletarget dpser likely has bonuses towards fighting one target over time (building stacks or whatever) which makes it a small buff to them. I'd say it definitely weakens AOE junglers (especially Amumu who relies on several attackers), while not really buffing singletarget junglers in general. I don't really thing Nocturne comes out on top, or even benefits, unless the HP taken from the minor monsters are enough to let him kill them one "passive proc" faster. Seems like Q+passive is going to be enough to kill the little ones as noct now. Other junglers who have non-spammable AOE that also benefit include Jarvan, Malphite, Lee, Fiddle off the top of my head (clear times should stay the same, damage taken goes down). Pure single target junglers basically don't care (neither clear time nor damage changes significantly), and aoe junglers' clear times actually go up. Amumu getting slowed down more than most by this jungle change. | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
With these flask nerfs, I need to figure out a new start for Kassadin... | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I'm expecting on my mids I'll do flask and then either 2 health pots 1 mana pot or 1 health pot 2 mana pots depending on opponent. The flask nerf was really needed, flask openings were just the best thing in the game on everybody. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
On January 16 2013 23:49 Ketara wrote: I think the standard flask start now will be flask+3 pots, no? I'm expecting on my mids I'll do flask and then either 2 health pots 1 mana pot or 1 health pot 2 mana pots depending on opponent. The flask nerf was really needed, flask openings were just the best thing in the game on everybody. So were boots last season, and it took an entire year to nerf it. I disagree that it was the best opening. You could have gone full pots which leaves you weaker later but stronger in lane. I think Riot acted too early again. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On January 16 2013 23:49 Ketara wrote: I think the standard flask start now will be flask+3 pots, no? I'm expecting on my mids I'll do flask and then either 2 health pots 1 mana pot or 1 health pot 2 mana pots depending on opponent. The flask nerf was really needed, flask openings were just the best thing in the game on everybody. Oh, I don't disagree at all that flask nerf was needed. The induction of flask made Viktor's life a living hell. On Kass I was going flask, 5 health, 2 mana pots. I've been trying to run a Tankadin hybrid damage build, and it has been pretty successful. It's just difficult getting through lane phase (cuz I like to first pick kass, so I get countered), so if I can do that, I'm pretty much golden. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On January 16 2013 21:51 Dark_Chill wrote: I asked a few pages ago about how jungle Riven reacted to those changes, but realized that I only needed to know a few things to figure that out, and figure out a few other things that I'm guessing most of you already know. 1) Are champions who primarily deal aoe damage to camps weakened? The smaller creeps die more quickly while the larger ones take more time, but do you take more or less damage (due to the smaller ones dying more quickly than usual). 2) Are champions who are more single target focused actually faster now? It seems like they still have to take relatively the same amount of time to clear since it looks more like health was just distributed differently. 3) Does this mean champs like Nocturne, who deal decent aoe but still rely mostly on single target damage coming out on top here? A bit of musing puts me in the mindset that jungle Riven will be pretty ok with the changes. With small jungle mobs getting nerfed and big jungle mobs getting buffed, there will be less reliance on her Q to clear and more on her passive, encouraging W and E max in jungle for the CDR, and E especially to possibly make up a bit for the hp5 nerf. Now, you don't need as many ranks in Q to tear down the small camps, and she already does single target clearing pretty well thanks to AD + passive + Machete. I honestly don't think the hp5 nerfs will be too detrimental, just from a glance. I'll likely be stacking more potions, doing Cloth5, Longsword2, or even straight Potion/Ward starts in some lanes. Because your Passive's extra damage gives Lifesteal, once you get Bruta + Vamp (and perhaps a DBlade early on), you should never be too low anyway. As to the other questions, because of Machete and everyone running AS marks, I doubt AoE junglers will become bad by any means, unless they full on revert it to S1 style jungle. Single target will hopefully start to catch up, so maybe I can bring my GP back to the jungle. "Incidental AoE" jungles (Noct, Naut, Udyr, Rammus) and good AoE "aura" jungles (Amumu, Hec, Mundo) will still be on the very strong end. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Coulda reverted it since he didn't go back and potted up instead, but my team stayed too long after they got the fb on an invade and gave a kill too, ended up with bot and jungle late at their spots. Their jungler used the certain lack of presence of ours for the next two minutes and came top, killed me solo, then Jax reaches 6 unhindered an his cs didn't matter, the lane was snowballed way beyond control. Top doesn't snowball as much as it did before, but when it does damn if you don't feel miserable. :< It's harsh losing to a Jax maxing Q first and rushing AP after his initial tabi+vamp, but I def made mistakes (like miscalculing Counterstrike's downtime and underestimating a Malph with level 2 + red buff gank, he just walked and auto-ed me to death). Guess I'm not ready to carry yet. ^ play Kat and laugh at your superior range. Or at least it seemed people here think Kat > Annie (I dunno, I'd probably pick Morgana against her, Ryze will get "kited" if her stun is up, Viktor can't trade as well as expected if she uses WQ instead of QW for her stun combo, Swain kinda loses to her range I feel because he can't get a full Q and she can 100-0 @6, and Syndra probably too squishy, will die at 6. Maybe I could use Orianna). | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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TSBspartacus
England1046 Posts
On January 17 2013 00:22 zulu_nation8 wrote: syndra buffs are pretty stupid, syndra is one of the strongest casters. I like it, because Syndra takes a lot of skill, it means great Syndra players will wreck face, but not everyone will be able to play her at the same level. Hopefully it will put her into a situation like Froggen Anivia or Ocelote Orianna where you have to ban her vs certain players, but can freely leave her open versus players without dem mad skills. | ||
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Tula
Austria1544 Posts
On January 16 2013 23:30 sylverfyre wrote: Seems like Q+passive is going to be enough to kill the little ones as noct now. Other junglers who have non-spammable AOE that also benefit include Jarvan, Malphite, Lee, Fiddle off the top of my head (clear times should stay the same, damage taken goes down). Pure single target junglers basically don't care (neither clear time nor damage changes significantly), and aoe junglers' clear times actually go up. Amumu getting slowed down more than most by this jungle change. Cho most likely won't have the fastest clear possible anymore either. He'll still be fast, but what made him one of the fastest and most efficient junglers was that two levels in vorpal spikes basically meant he could ignore all the small creeps while focusing the big one. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On January 17 2013 00:27 Alaric wrote: Would you argue that her teamfighting was pretty awkward as using her ult on anything else than a diving bruiser spelt instant death on her? At least if you use it at the beginning, but if you wait for positioning to change and opportunities to arise then not being able to ult earlier put her behind other burst casters. Never played her, but I'd wager she was quite strong against diving assassins because you could near-insta-stun them then ult as soon as they jumped in, given that they didn't instagib you | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On January 17 2013 00:27 Alaric wrote: Would you argue that her teamfighting was pretty awkward as using her ult on anything else than a diving bruiser spelt instant death on her? At least if you use it at the beginning, but if you wait for positioning to change and opportunities to arise then not being able to ult earlier put her behind other burst casters. Watching Link play her yesterday was breathtaking. He basically never needed to burn flash for ganks because his positioning was such that he could always insta stun one of the people pursuing in and his lane control was absurd. Not to mention the damage was really high. Don't know if she needed any buffs when I watch good players play her well tbh. | ||
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