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United States47024 Posts
On January 10 2013 01:58 Dan HH wrote:
SWL, NLB and G-League at the same time tomorrow, damn.
Based on last night, G-League probably won't be that interesting. iG is already up 2-0 in the Bo5.
There is of course the very small possibility that PE will pull out the epic LLWWW, but it's far more likely that iG will just clean out the series in 1-2 more games.
In SWL, TPS vs. T1 will probably be a good opening match to gauge how good Snipers are. TPA vs. LGD will be a stomp.
On January 10 2013 01:59 Scip wrote:
But yeah, generally I have very large issue with any jungler who doesn't get aura items very quickly OR is not a very powerful assasin. With how strong Bulwark, Shurelyas, Sightstone and Locket are and because support can't get all them things, I think junglers really ought to get some.
Everyone's too buys buying Warmogs and Sunfires.
Really should see more Lockets though, not just on junglers, but on top laners as well.
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Frozen Heart costing a lot more while giving fewer stats sucks for pony too. I like iceborn gauntlet in principle, it just costs too much. Everyone I see do well with him just goes ball to the walls and latches onto someone and they die. Which is not at all forgiving if you screw up.
I used to just sit around and wait for the opportune moment then go nuts on their team, splitting off important people or pushing them into my team. I don't really feel like you can get enough tankiness to do that anymore.
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Yango? Where's the "I told you so"?
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Honestly all Kindlegem items seem really strong. Very cheap source of CDR, and health being very effective right now. I'm surprised there haven't been more Zeke's as well since the AD and extra CDR fit bruisers better than the old AS.
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On January 10 2013 01:59 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 01:40 Requizen wrote:On January 10 2013 01:32 Eiii wrote:
Since we're on TL and all, I feel like I'm obligated to bring up that hecarim is just a worse version of skarner. Not with IBG he's not. Now both have permaslow, and it's mostly comparing their ults. Inc discussion about IBG vs TF on Hec sure, but cost efficiency aside, IBG gives him the sticking power that's not on RNG like Phage, and gives him the resists + CDR he desires. Then again I think I've only played him twice since S3, so don't take me too seriously. Yeah, you just need to get a 3400 gold item and then Hecarim is roughly equivalent to Skarner ! :3 In the meantime, Skarner can get Locket to shield his shield to own faces while he owns faces and Shurelyas so he can be fast while he is fast. VROOM. Yeah, whenever I tried to Hecarim, I ran into that problem where you ult in and then go "well, wtf do I do now" because everyone is far away from you just awkwardly press W and Q without having anyone to focus. But yeah, generally I have very large issue with any jungler who doesn't get aura items very quickly OR is not a very powerful assasin. With how strong Bulwark, Shurelyas, Sightstone and Locket are and because support can't get all them things, I think junglers really ought to get some.
You don't need to rush IBG, Sheen is enough for mid-game damage. That gives you room for Aegis/Bulwark, Locket, etc. Just upgrade Sheen later in the game.
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honestly, neither skarner nor hecarim are good right now
skarner needs his mana costs back to when they were good and hecarim needs a new kit to be viable *lol*
actually just make hecarim's Q apply the onhit so you don't have to q->auto to proc sheen/frozen fist and he might be in an okay place
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On January 10 2013 02:20 gtrsrs wrote:
honestly, neither skarner nor hecarim are good right now
skarner needs his mana costs back to when they were good and hecarim needs a new kit to be viable *lol*
actually just make hecarim's Q apply the onhit so you don't have to q->auto to proc sheen/frozen fist and he might be in an okay place
An aoe aoe slow?Wouldn't that make him kind of well....broken?lol
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I'd buy locket on top laners, but usually I need other stuff before to do my thing, and Locket often feels underwhelming for that (I expected to love zeke's on Wukong, who goes pretty well with HP, CDR and general utility while lacking sustain, and I felt like I wasn't doing anything apart from lifestealing in lane with it).
On January 09 2013 23:43 mr_tolkien wrote:
I got a question : a few pages ago, I read about Jax as «one of the best late scaling» blah blah but honestly, where does it come from ?
Lots of champs have way better tanking + damage + cc capacity late game than post-rework jax. Before the rework, he was god late game because of a low CD AoE stun, free thousands of HPs, and 0 reliancy on an ulti, just raw damage.
But to me a 6 items Wukong or Olaf looks WAY scarier than a 6 item Jax.
Not the same strengths. Wukong sucks as a duelist because he relies a lot on base damage from his spells, doesn't get to build much CDR and lacks sustain. He'll trash squishies because of his ult's scaling, but any bruiser surviving it will just point out that Monkey's got no CC, sustain nor real steroids (AS for 3 seconds every 8, no AD), while he only gets 8 armor/MR instead of 40 in a teamfight. He has good burst so he's good at cleaning up squishies but if you get HP he sits in a corner all sad.
Olaf doesn't have any gap closer and has conditional, strong sustain, and short-lived defensive steroids (resistances on his ult). He really gets stronger as he gets lower (more AS so he can wrecks faces pressing W), which makes him susceptible to burst (if some has been saved or cooldowns come back up). He's a strong duelist because once you blow your cooldowns you essentially made him stronger while he can, if not heal, then at least maintain himself at that level of HP with W. He also gets to ignore resistances through E, which makes cooldown managing pretty important. He's a sitting duck if he misses an axe and you kite away from it.
Jax has good base stats, mixed damage, a pretty strong, "permanent" steroid which scales with itself (passive + ult's passive), good sustained, if mana-hungry, damage through W, and a 3 seconds virtual invulnerability against what was the biggest damage output in s2—autoattacking carries— (2 seconds dodge, 1 second stun). "Time" is a scaling resource, see how Pantheon's passive falls off as levels and items are gained, how Cait's Q or MF's W animations make them kinda fall off compared to right-clicking too; when you have IE+PD+BT, the amount of damage Counterstrike dodges is pretty huge.
He also scales really well with CDR because it enhances his Counterstrike uptime, his mobility through Leap Strike and his sheer dps from Empower. Add a well-rounded defensive steroid in his ult, and how well he can sustain himself off of gunblade and he's a nightmare to take down 1v1.
He's also easier to focus down than Wukong (can stack HP and doesn't have to activate a spell to get bonus resistances) and Olaf (ult -> run away) by chaining CC, especially if you catch him before he ults.
On January 10 2013 01:28 Cloud9157 wrote:
Am I still the only one that feels Hec is kinda ehh? I mean, I love this champ, but after I ult in a fight, I feel I do nothing and they all just run past me. His peel feels weak and its tough to go after high priority targets.
iunno. I don't claim to say I know everything about him, but that is just my impression whenever I play him.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeen (Edit: welp. It's a long "Shen", not a long "Sheen", just noticed >>). Same stuff in the end.  You're unkillable, but if they don't deal with you, you end up killing them. I think it's important on those champs to balance offense with defense instead of just going balls out tanky.
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you need to do 1 of 2 things when you play hecarim
1. play him farm style like xj9 and only gank if its a countergank, while making sure to be there for waves when a lane goes back so they miss exp and you gain additional farm.
2. play him top lane
hes not good as a low farm jungler, aka not good in competitive play. great in solo q though
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
I played a few Skarner games and sometimes I just work pretty well and sometimes it just fails horribly. There is something I am missing about all that but I suspect there are undiscovered circumstances when Skarner is good. Obviously would require you to late pick him, which you usually don't want, but meh. Probably not worth investigating.
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locket has ridiculous efficiency =o
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On January 10 2013 02:38 Scip wrote:
I played a few Skarner games and sometimes I just work pretty well and sometimes it just fails horribly. There is something I am missing about all that but I suspect there are undiscovered circumstances when Skarner is good. Obviously would require you to late pick him, which you usually don't want, but meh. Probably not worth investigating.
right now he just doesnt bring much to a team. There are way better "im useless before 6" picks. Nocturne/amumu/etc
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what the hell happened to skarner?
at the end of s2 he was a go-to jungler and i doubt that the s3 changes impacted him so much that he became useless.
there are so many times that heroes fall out of favor and i feel like too many people come up with reasons to why no one plays him anymore when there actually is no particular reason and that people just don't play him.
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On January 10 2013 02:29 Alaric wrote:I'd buy locket on top laners, but usually I need other stuff before to do my thing, and Locket often feels underwhelming for that (I expected to love zeke's on Wukong, who goes pretty well with HP, CDR and general utility while lacking sustain, and I felt like I wasn't doing anything apart from lifestealing in lane with it). Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 23:43 mr_tolkien wrote:
I got a question : a few pages ago, I read about Jax as «one of the best late scaling» blah blah but honestly, where does it come from ?
Lots of champs have way better tanking + damage + cc capacity late game than post-rework jax. Before the rework, he was god late game because of a low CD AoE stun, free thousands of HPs, and 0 reliancy on an ulti, just raw damage.
But to me a 6 items Wukong or Olaf looks WAY scarier than a 6 item Jax. Not the same strengths. Wukong sucks as a duelist because he relies a lot on base damage from his spells, doesn't get to build much CDR and lacks sustain. He'll trash squishies because of his ult's scaling, but any bruiser surviving it will just point out that Monkey's got no CC, sustain nor real steroids (AS for 3 seconds every 8, no AD), while he only gets 8 armor/MR instead of 40 in a teamfight. He has good burst so he's good at cleaning up squishies but if you get HP he sits in a corner all sad. Olaf doesn't have any gap closer and has conditional, strong sustain, and short-lived defensive steroids (resistances on his ult). He really gets stronger as he gets lower (more AS so he can wrecks faces pressing W), which makes him susceptible to burst (if some has been saved or cooldowns come back up). He's a strong duelist because once you blow your cooldowns you essentially made him stronger while he can, if not heal, then at least maintain himself at that level of HP with W. He also gets to ignore resistances through E, which makes cooldown managing pretty important. He's a sitting duck if he misses an axe and you kite away from it. Jax has good base stats, mixed damage, a pretty strong, "permanent" steroid which scales with itself (passive + ult's passive), good sustained, if mana-hungry, damage through W, and a 3 seconds virtual invulnerability against what was the biggest damage output in s2—autoattacking carries— (2 seconds dodge, 1 second stun). "Time" is a scaling resource, see how Pantheon's passive falls off as levels and items are gained, how Cait's Q or MF's W animations make them kinda fall off compared to right-clicking too; when you have IE+PD+BT, the amount of damage Counterstrike dodges is pretty huge. He also scales really well with CDR because it enhances his Counterstrike uptime, his mobility through Leap Strike and his sheer dps from Empower. Add a well-rounded defensive steroid in his ult, and how well he can sustain himself off of gunblade and he's a nightmare to take down 1v1. He's also easier to focus down than Wukong (can stack HP and doesn't have to activate a spell to get bonus resistances) and Olaf (ult -> run away) by chaining CC, especially if you catch him before he ults. Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 01:28 Cloud9157 wrote:
Am I still the only one that feels Hec is kinda ehh? I mean, I love this champ, but after I ult in a fight, I feel I do nothing and they all just run past me. His peel feels weak and its tough to go after high priority targets.
iunno. I don't claim to say I know everything about him, but that is just my impression whenever I play him. Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeen (Edit: welp. It's a long "Shen", not a long "Sheen", just noticed >>). Same stuff in the end. You're unkillable, but if they don't deal with you, you end up killing them. I think it's important on those champs to balance offense with defense instead of just going balls out tanky.
Shen also has taunt (much better than the knockback), brings a bit of sustain, and his global ult brings way more utility than Hec's. As much as I like him, I've yet to see a Hec change the outcome of a game the same way Shen can.
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On January 10 2013 02:47 kainzero wrote:
what the hell happened to skarner?
at the end of s2 he was a go-to jungler and i doubt that the s3 changes impacted him so much that he became useless.
there are so many times that heroes fall out of favor and i feel like too many people come up with reasons to why no one plays him anymore when there actually is no particular reason and that people just don't play him.
I think it was more the ulti nerf than the new jungle
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On January 10 2013 02:47 kainzero wrote:
what the hell happened to skarner?
at the end of s2 he was a go-to jungler and i doubt that the s3 changes impacted him so much that he became useless.
there are so many times that heroes fall out of favor and i feel like too many people come up with reasons to why no one plays him anymore when there actually is no particular reason and that people just don't play him.
Ult nerf. GG.
Unrelated, I still <3 Diana, nerfs or not!
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JFhtm.png)
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On January 10 2013 02:47 kainzero wrote:
what the hell happened to skarner?
at the end of s2 he was a go-to jungler and i doubt that the s3 changes impacted him so much that he became useless.
there are so many times that heroes fall out of favor and i feel like too many people come up with reasons to why no one plays him anymore when there actually is no particular reason and that people just don't play him.
shurelyas got nerfed,ult nerfed,camps got stronger,skarner has mana issues i.e he ain't that great anymore.
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On January 10 2013 02:48 Requizen wrote:
Shen also has taunt (much better than the knockback), brings a bit of sustain, and his global ult brings way more utility than Hec's. As much as I like him, I've yet to see a Hec change the outcome of a game the same way Shen can.
Yeah I was alluding to builds and teamfighting rather than the game in general. Hec's ult is disruption as much as Shen's taunt.
That's more or less how I like to build Noc/Vi too, except with more damage because their bases/scaling off tanky stats aren't as good.
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Just revert the ult nerf, the rest is fine, that nerf was so dumb.
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EPT
