EPT[Patch 1.0.0.153: Preseason Balance Update 1] GD - Page 352
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
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Amethyst21
Canada7032 Posts
First impressions: A - Tough group with Curse and 3 solid teams. I'll pick Curse and Brunch Club. B - Stacked group with 3 teams that are among the better in the qualifier. EpiK and FeaR qualify C - Weak group. Dirtnap and Meat Playground the strongest on paper but haven't seen Meat playground in forever, Azingy's team could suprise D - Another weak group. MarN and the Salad Bar top 2 easy. Some pretty unbalanced groups imo, but still should see 5 strong teams qualify. Curse, Brunch, EpiK, Dirtnap, MarN in my unscientific assessment. | ||
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Zooper31
United States5711 Posts
On January 09 2013 13:25 TheYango wrote: Honestly speaking, given the effectiveness of Warmog's HP regen, it's quite possible that you could get away with not having Lifesteal and using Warmog's regen as your lategame sustain source, and using Flask+DBlade for early regen. What on earth are you talking about? Warmogs on ADC lol. The amount of sustain warmogs gives (based on %hp) is minimal at best on ADC who get no other health items. You will lose to any other adc lategame because they will lose no HP with a fully stacked BT and healing for 200hp per hit while you regen 55hp per 5seconds. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On January 09 2013 13:24 Alaric wrote: I think the only AD on whom I regularly go BT is Sivir, and if I'm getting ahead but not early enough that I can quad-shot stuff with BT and my combo then I'll just get IE so that I can ride my advantage harder. Maybe Draven too... assuming I start picking him "seriously" again. Cait or an AP that can start one-shotting the wave early and efficiently I guess. Almost always get it on Graves/Ezreal, they seem to be the ones who benefit most from the 100AD tho. Usually do it on Corki too, will always go IE first on Caitlyn/Tristana tho | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
I think you're going to lose if they have 1100 AD regardless of whether you have lifesteal or not. | ||
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Zooper31
United States5711 Posts
On January 09 2013 13:31 TheYango wrote: 18% HP = 200 HP per hit? I think you're going to lose if they have 1100 AD regardless of whether you have lifesteal or not. Obviously not exact numbers but the point still stands, they will maybe get down to 50% depending on your burst and you will just melt. You also are missing out on the single biggest AD item and will deal significantly less dmg. Mogs is for troll games and where you are like 15-0 and want to get it in place of a defensive item, you will still be getting BT. 18% on crits of 1k is about right with my rough estimate of 200hp. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On January 09 2013 13:33 Zooper31 wrote: Obviously not exact numbers but the point still stands, they will maybe get down to 50% depending on your burst and you will just melt. Idk getting it as an alternative to GA or something might be okay, but its not going to be as skewed as you seem to think it will be in the other ads favor | ||
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Zooper31
United States5711 Posts
On January 09 2013 13:34 arb wrote: Idk getting it as an alternative to GA or something might be okay, but its not going to be as skewed as you seem to think it will be in the other ads favor Hes saying to get mogs in place of BT for your sustain, I'd at least comprehend getting it in place of GA or QSS or something. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
This actually matters a lot more this season where there are a lot more ways for melee diving threats to be relevant against you. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On January 09 2013 13:31 TheYango wrote: 18% HP = 200 HP per hit? I think you're going to lose if they have 1100 AD regardless of whether you have lifesteal or not. Eh you're super overrating warmogs. The hp regen does nothing at all for an AD carry, you still die the second someone touches you. Their AD will be one full item up on you. Carry with IE + PD + BT will beat IE + PD + Warmog every time. Maybe you can replace GA with it because GA kind of sucks and is overrated, but it won't replace lifesteal at all. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On January 09 2013 13:36 Zooper31 wrote: Hes saying to get mogs in place of BT for your sustain, I'd at least comprehend getting it in place of GA or QSS or something. oh i see, id never get it in place of BT lol, thats asking to get shit on, trading 100 ad for some healthregen for sustain isnt even remotely worth it. inplace of GA or QSS might be okay, but id never drop your BT for Warmogs | ||
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Zooper31
United States5711 Posts
On January 09 2013 13:39 TheYango wrote: You're going to be weaker for dueling the other AD, but you're also going to be way harder to dive. Fights rarely end up in a situation where the 2 ADs are just dueling each other. This actually matters a lot more this season where there are a lot more ways for melee diving threats to be relevant against you. Blame that on the renovated BC, I'd see maybe getting mogs on a less mobile adc like graves, sivir, ashe, etc when you against a dive team instead of the standard GA. But then idk GA is still pretty much a godlike item if your team is in position to help you when you rez if they use everything to dive you. @arb my thoughts exactly lol. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 09 2013 13:40 arb wrote: oh i see, id never get it in place of BT lol, thats asking to get shit on, trading 100 ad for some healthregen for sustain isnt even remotely worth it. inplace of GA or QSS might be okay, but id never drop your BT for Warmogs So having like 50% more HP is just sort of totally ignored? The other thing is that the change to the penetration rules means you don't need 4 offensive + 1 defensive item to actually be able to do enough damage to kill the enemy team lategame. 3 offensive + 2 defensive so long as Cleaver is in play on someone probably makes your damage comfortable enough, which means that a second defensive item actually gives you a lot more room to work with in terms of how you play fights. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On January 09 2013 13:31 arb wrote: Almost always get it on Graves/Ezreal, they seem to be the ones who benefit most from the 100AD tho. Usually do it on Corki too, will always go IE first on Caitlyn/Tristana tho Need to pick up Cait and play Graves more. >.> I could see myself getting it first on him if I'm ahead for the burst kill potential, though without his ult Sivir is way more bursty (Q + aa reset) and since she has less range the better lifesteal is even more necessary I feel. On Draven you get more burst with BT, more dps with IE assuming you can't catch all your axes (say during a teamfight) as you'll still proc your passive from crits. On Ashe... no discussion. On Vayne I tended to go PD first when I last tried playing her (ends in an ugly fashion generally). I don't play other ADs, it's my worst role so might as well focus on some (prob Ashe/Graves, Draven/Vayne too demanding mechanically and Sivir "unsafe" because of her range and the way Cait smashes her—actually, Graves' vulnerable too and Ashe's so passive it's easy to pick a stronger lane if I pick first. Whatever). | ||
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
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Zooper31
United States5711 Posts
On January 09 2013 13:42 TheYango wrote: So having like 50% more HP is just sort of totally ignored? Having 50% more hp isn't going to mean anything at all when you have no defensive stats to buffer it. You are still going to get crit for 1k from their adc regardless and will simply take 1 more hit to kill. While playing an adc you are a glass cannon that does dmg and carries teams from a good position, not a person that expects to be taking dmg and out sustaining them. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 09 2013 13:45 Zooper31 wrote: Having 50% more hp isn't going to mean anything at all when you have no defensive stats to buffer it. You are still going to get crit for 1k from their adc regardless and will simply take 1 more hit to kill. While playing an adc you are a glass cannon that does dmg and carries teams from a good position, not a person that expects to be taking dmg and out sustaining them. The glass cannon paradigm is ingrained in peoples' heads from S1/S2. That does not by any means make it necessarily the best way to play in S3 given such a radical shift in itemization and the rules of the game (how penetration stats work). | ||
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Zooper31
United States5711 Posts
On January 09 2013 13:46 TheYango wrote: The glass cannon paradigm is ingrained in peoples' heads from S1/S2. That does not by any means make it necessarily the best way to play in S3 given such a radical shift in itemization and the rules of the game (how penetration stats work). I just whole heartedly disagree with that. But yes radical shift in itemization due to penetration and the new items. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On January 09 2013 13:42 Alaric wrote: Need to pick up Cait and play Graves more. >.> I could see myself getting it first on him if I'm ahead for the burst kill potential, though without his ult Sivir is way more bursty (Q + aa reset) and since she has less range the better lifesteal is even more necessary I feel. On Draven you get more burst with BT, more dps with IE assuming you can't catch all your axes (say during a teamfight) as you'll still proc your passive from crits. On Ashe... no discussion. On Vayne I tended to go PD first when I last tried playing her (ends in an ugly fashion generally). I don't play other ADs, it's my worst role so might as well focus on some (prob Ashe/Graves, Draven/Vayne too demanding mechanically and Sivir "unsafe" because of her range and the way Cait smashes her—actually, Graves' vulnerable too and Ashe's so passive it's easy to pick a stronger lane if I pick first. Whatever). if you can point blank buckshot then(i.e they get hit by all 3 or even 2 of the bullets) you should do pretty good damage i think. I like getting it first on him just for the scaling on his Q/Ult tho. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On January 09 2013 13:46 TheYango wrote: The glass cannon paradigm is ingrained in peoples' heads from S1/S2. That does not by any means make it necessarily the best way to play in S3 given such a radical shift in itemization and the rules of the game (how penetration stats work). Doesn't the penetration change mean that even more damage = more amplification? I don't understand how you can think that it's okay to only deal 300 dmg per hit when you could deal 500. Just play bruiser bot if you'll build tanky. For example back when they had these same penetration rules in early 2010 the AD carry builds went bruta -> LW -> IE -> PD, concentrating on making everyone have 0 armor early. No one went tanky, that's stupid. | ||
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